Questions on premium headlight bulbs, and impressions of strandard Flosser halogens

I have a 1998 Volvo S70, and have been using Sylvania Xtravision H7 bulbs for a while now with good results. There is no reason I've been using them other than convenience (Sylvania is what's for sale in the Walmarts and AutoZones around here). I had a headlight bulb burn out today, and picked up a pair of Xtravisions, and also a "standard" Sylvania H7 bulb as a spare. For giggles, I replaced the burned out bulb with the new standard bulb, and noticed that it was brighter than the old Xtravision in the other lamp. (Those of you that have more experience will say "well duh, the old bulb is worn out so of course it's dimmer...", but I'm just learning here so have patience with me). This got me to thinking about premium bulbs and prompted some research. Following that initial research, I have a few questions for the collective wisdom of the forum:

1) Is there a generally applicable rate of degredation of output for a halogen automotive bulb, and does the loss happen a) gradually and consistently throughout the life of the bulb, or b) more at the beginning of the bulb life, or c) does the degredation accelerate at the end of the bulb's life?
2) Presuming I'm going to stick with 55 watt low-beam bulbs, stock wiring, etc., -- is there a widely-preferred midrange "premium" bulb model that offers the most bang for the buck? (I'm not interested in blue-filtered bulbs like silverstars, and I draw the line at around $20 per bulb.)
3) In the standard/budget category, does anyone have experience with Flosser H7 bulbs? They are the "house" bulb for a Volvo parts retailer that I trust, but I haven't had luck finding reviews online. I see these bulbs sold by Amazon for ~$7 each ($70 for a box of 10), which is cheaper than the standard Sylvanias I've been buying in the big box stores, and makes them tempting.

Thanks for your help.

The headlamp reflectors on that generation of S70 are unfortunately not among the world's most durable. It is quite likely that -- in addition to 16 years worth of lens pitting -- your headlamps' reflectors are significantly degraded. When thinking about this, bear in mind that reflectors have to be well and truly trashed before the degradation is visible to the unaided eye. Reflectors can easily look fine, yet be optically useless. To illustrate the point: High-end premium chrome plating, the kind that looks 20 beautiful feet deep on a show car, is around 66% reflective, not even close to adequate for a reflector. A new headlamp reflector is over 95% reflective. This is all a long way of saying you are very likely ready (or past ready) for new headlamps. And that brings up the standard caution: aftermarket headlamps are junk. Aftermarket replacement lenses are not legitimate parts and are also junk. New genuine headlamps really are the only way to go if you're trying to see, and the only choice to make is whether to get the SAE (US-code) or the ECE (UN/European-code) type.

The Xtravision is a decent bulb.

Is there a generally applicable rate of degredation of output for a halogen automotive bulb

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Generally, lumen maintenance for a quality standard halogen headlight lamp at end of rated lifespan is >80%. For a high-performance headlight lamp it's >90% (because of the shorter rated lifespan), and for a long-life headlight lamp it's >70%.

gradually and consistently throughout the life of the bulb

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Yes, though it can be hastened by operating conditions -- undervoltage operation, for example.

Presuming I'm going to stick with 55 watt low-beam bulbs, stock wiring, etc., -- is there a widely-preferred midrange "premium" bulb model that offers the most bang for the buck?

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That pretty well describes the Xtravision.

In the standard/budget category, does anyone have experience with Flosser H7 bulbs?

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They're equally acceptable as Philips, Narva, Osram, Tungsram.

Scheinwerfermann, thanks for your time and the valuable advice. I've spent a lot of time on the flashlight side of this forum, and it's a pleasant surprise to happen upon this section just when I needed it...

From the limited research I've done, it's disturbing how bulb manufacturers distort data in their marketing/packaging ("30% brighter than a standard bulb!"), and how cooler tinted bulbs are represented as automagically providing better visibility. Consequently, I'm grateful for some reality-based information on the subject.

Given the age of my car, I'm unlikely to spend the money (for OEM Volvo, BIG money) to replace headlamps. Nonetheless, I believe I understand the implications of your post.... that automotive lighting is a (sophisticated) system beyond just a battery and a bulb, -- and that wiring, lenses, reflectors, and proper adjustment all play a significant role.

I'm going to stick with the Xtravisions for now and maybe try out a pair of Flossers to see how well they perform and how long they last. My wife's car also uses H7 bulbs, and we intend to keep that one for a while. so the lessons learned will be useful going forward, even after my car is no longer with me.

Yeah, the high cost of recent headlamps is a problem...and it's only going to get bigger with LED headlamps.

I agree with you, too, that the claims made by even some nominally reputable companies for their headlight bulbs are (at least) bordering on the unsupportable, if not out-and-out BS.

ronniepudding said:

From the limited research I've done, it's disturbing how bulb manufacturers distort data in their marketing/packaging ("30% brighter than a standard bulb!"), and how cooler tinted bulbs are represented as automagically providing better visibility. Consequently, I'm grateful for some reality-based information on the subject.

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Sylvania is one such company that is devious about their marketing:

From Sylvania's SilverStar Ultra page
Just how bright are SYLVANIA SilverStar® ULTRA bulbs? By providing up to 50% greater brightness*, they can increase visibility down the road by up to 40%*, and peripheral visibility by up to 50%.*

*Compared to worn standard halogen

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That's right-- compared to not only a standard halogen, but a WORN standard halogen. They're not about to try to compete with the same bulb right out of the box.

However, I don't have any qualms about recommending the Sylvania Xtravision, in fact, that's what I always install for an elderly friend of mine when one of his '89 Camry's headlamp bulbs go out (and always in pairs, of course). They're readily available off-the-shelf and are decently priced.

Scheinwerfermann said:

And that brings up the standard caution: aftermarket headlamps are junk.

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Are there studies that prove this?

Scheinwerfermann said:

Yeah, the high cost of recent headlamps is a problem...and it's only going to get bigger with LED headlamps.

I agree with you, too, that the claims made by even some nominally reputable companies for their headlight bulbs are (at least) bordering on the unsupportable, if not out-and-out BS.

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You can say that again. To replace the headlight assemblies on my 2013 Accord Touring is $1,636.10 in parts alone. This is highly problematic, as the LED bulbs are not individually replaceable; any malfunction to the bulbs after the one-year warranty expires is therefore a very large and very expensive repair. (I am assuming here that the old rule that one should generally replace headlamp bulbs in pairs still applies.)

On an older car, that's the kind of repair that leads to the junkyard. It feels like we are now in a situation where someone might get rid of a car because one of its headlights has burnt out.

While I trust Honda to pick good suppliers, and while LEDs are quite easily capable of having a useful lifetime longer than my car itself, I am very concerned of what might happen with lens yellowing and pitting into the future. I can only hope that their specifications were for some very long-lasting materials. Judging from what I've read on this board, not every LED headlamp manufacturer has made that choice.

Alaric Darconville said:

Sylvania is one such company that is devious about their marketing ... That's right-- compared to not only a standard halogen, but a WORN standard halogen. They're not about to try to compete with the same bulb right out of the box.

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That's exactly what I was talking about. And since the marketing claims are questionable, it makes me question the cost vs. benefit effectiveness of paying twice -- and for some bulb upgrades I've seen, 5 times -- as much for a premium bulb that in the end has a much shorter life. One of the 55W H7 bulbs I was looking at during my research is the [PIAA Xtreme White] - which advertises fancy/proprietary gas and filament ...

(from PIAA's website
PIAA bulbs are engineered with XTRA Technology for greater performance per watt compared to the competition. XTRA Technology is achieved when a proprietary gas mixture is combined with an aerospace alloy filament that produces greater light output than its rated power consumption: i.e. 55W = 110W

I'm not sure what the wattage comparison is supposed to mean in terms of output (to the layperson, the implication is that it's twice as bright), but I do notice that these sorts of descriptions generally fail to include any actual lumen/lux-based measurements or comparisons.

Apologies if I'm oversimplifying, but this is why I was asking about the general decline in brightness that occurs over the life of a headlamp bulb in my original post. For the price of 1 pair of [PIAA Xtreme White] bulbs, I could buy 3-4 pairs of Sylvania Xtravisions, or 5-6 pairs of standard halogen bulbs... wouldn't I be better off buying the latter and changing them out more frequently in order to leverage the full brightness of a new bulb? If you factor in the short lifespan, it's close to an equivalent cost to a) buy the PIAAs, or b) buy a new set of standard bulbs every month.

Alaric Darconville said:

However, I don't have any qualms about recommending the Sylvania Xtravision, in fact, that's what I always install for an elderly friend of mine when one of his '89 Camry's headlamp bulbs go out (and always in pairs, of course). They're readily available off-the-shelf and are decently priced.

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Thanks for confirming... I've had good experiences with Xtravision thus far. They are only a few bucks more than standard bulbs, and they seem to last decently long. I don't mind paying a reasonable upcharge for a visible improvement in performance.

As someone who works in the automotive trade all i will add is China makes many of the bulbs for the brand leaders and remember misaligned etc does not get thrown away so use your head,one other thing cheap bulbs have a known tendency to yellow poly lens over time.

MTerrence said:

You can say that again. To replace the headlight assemblies on my 2013 Accord Touring is $1,636.10 in parts alone. This is highly problematic, as the LED bulbs are not individually replaceable; any malfunction to the bulbs after the one-year warranty expires is therefore a very large and very expensive repair. (I am assuming here that the old rule that one should generally replace headlamp bulbs in pairs still applies.)

On an older car, that's the kind of repair that leads to the junkyard. It feels like we are now in a situation where someone might get rid of a car because one of its headlights has burnt out.

While I trust Honda to pick good suppliers, and while LEDs are quite easily capable of having a useful lifetime longer than my car itself, I am very concerned of what might happen with lens yellowing and pitting into the future. I can only hope that their specifications were for some very long-lasting materials. Judging from what I've read on this board, not every LED headlamp manufacturer has made that choice.

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This worries me too... as a DIY-er and shade tree mechanic, my choices for a car that can be worked on without a proprietary manufacturer diagnostic system are getting more and more limited. If the trend continues, I will not be able to change the oil without getting the dealer involved

User-replaceable components like spark plugs and light bulbs are disappearing, -- and in their place are expensive modules that cannot be repaired or serviced, only swapped out.

Scheinwerfermann said:

And that brings up the standard caution: aftermarket headlamps are junk.

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JMSinMD said:

Are there studies that prove this?

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There is a set of three reports detailing this, from CAPA.

One of the lamps tested wouldn't even bolt on to the car for which it was "designed". If *that* ain't junk, then I don't know *what* is.

Alaric Darconville said:

There is a set of three reports detailing this, from CAPA.

One of the lamps tested wouldn't even bolt on to the car for which it was "designed". If *that* ain't junk, then I don't know *what* is.

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As someone who's spent a lot of time working on cars over the years, I've come to the conclusion that some parts are OK to buy aftermarket, and some parts really need to be OEM if you want the repair to be successful. While I'm not surprised that headlamps are generally in the latter category, I am surprised at how spectacularly the aftermarket assemblies failed those tests.

MTerrence said:

To replace the headlight assemblies on my 2013 Accord Touring is $1,636.10 in parts alone. This is highly problematic, as the LED bulbs are not individually replaceable; any malfunction to the bulbs after the one-year warranty expires is therefore a very large and very expensive repair. (I am assuming here that the old rule that one should generally replace headlamp bulbs in pairs still applies.)

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There are no "LED bulbs" in your headlamps. The LEDs' expected lifespan is very much longer than any previous type of headlamp light source (tungsten or tungsten-halogen filament, HID arc), so you are unlikely to experience an LED failure. It's likely the lenses will cloud up before the LEDs fail. (Er...one-year warranty?)

On an older car, that's the kind of repair that leads to the junkyard. It feels like we are now in a situation where someone might get rid of a car because one of its headlights has burnt out.

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That's where we are. I don't think it's a wise place to be, but it's where we are, and the auto industry likes it that way.

ronniepudding said:

I am surprised at how spectacularly the aftermarket assemblies failed those tests.

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I spent enough time, recently enough, in product development and sourcing in the OE and aftermarket vehicle lighting field that I'm not at all surprised. :-(

Alaric Darconville said:

There is a set of three reports detailing this, from CAPA.

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My favorite aspect of those reports isn't their very damning contents, it's that the CAPA organization itself, which is dedicated to pushing the use of cheap knockoffs instead of original-equipment repair parts, presents the reports as though they somehow support CAPA's position. That's dumb. At least it's not deceptive like this piece of CAPA's own propaganda. Go ahead and watch the video, which compares the crash performance of a genuine Ford bumper reinforcement to that of a non-CAPA-certified aftermarket replacement. What's missing in this comparison? H'mm, I just can't think.

There are other equally-bogus "certification" and "approval" claims applied to aftermarket headlamps; beyond the usual "OEM quality!" "SAE/DOT approved"! BS, we're now seeing "NSF certified!" and other such nonsense.

(I'm just waiting for someone to object to the OE/aftermarket headlamp comparison data on grounds of its being over 10 years old. Go ahead and object, but the current situation is unchanged.)

ronniepudding said:

One of the 55W H7 bulbs I was looking at during my research is the [PIAA Xtreme White] - which advertises fancy/proprietary gas and filament

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BS. PIAA's bulbs are in two categories: they're either made poorly in house, or they're just commodity bulbs (Sylvania or another maker), private-branded for PIAA and with PIAA-spec glass tint and blacktop color.

XTRA Technology is achieved when a proprietary gas mixture is combined with an aerospace alloy filament that produces greater light output than its rated power consumption: i.e. 55W = 110W[/I]

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Riiiiiiiiight. And scroll down for other amazing violations of the laws of physics, all made possible by the simple yet powerful technique known as lying.

these sorts of descriptions generally fail to include any actual lumen/lux-based measurements or comparisons.

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Right. They babble about "color temperature" or "kelvin rating", and made-up crap like "wattage equivalence" and "XTRA technology" and "aerospace alloy" because the actual, real, relevant data would be very embarrassing to them.

For the price of 1 pair of [PIAA Xtreme White] bulbs, I could buy 3-4 pairs of Sylvania Xtravisions, or 5-6 pairs of standard halogen bulbs

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And you'd be better off not only in terms of money spent, but also in terms of ability to see, with either the Xtravision or the standard bulb.

You may want to keep your eyes open and jump on the periodic super sales that can be found on Amazon for GE Night Hawk or Philips Xtreme Power. Those are better-performing bulbs than the Sylvania Xtravision.

Scheinwerfermann said:

My favorite aspect of those reports isn't their very damning contents, it's that the CAPA organization itself, which is dedicated to pushing the use of cheap knockoffs instead of original-equipment repair parts, presents the reports as though they somehow support CAPA's position.

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So, they didn't revoke their certification of the parts and de-value the seals of approval they issued for the lot?