Light for ultralight backpacking

newdeathscope

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Jun 10, 2014
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I am planing on going on a thru hike of the AT within the next year. I am looking to finalize my gear in a fairly short period of time so I can go on plenty of "dry runs". I am attempting to keep my pack weight as low as possible (I am a small guy) while still being able to do the following: find my way to the can and back, doing a few miles in the morning over a variable trail (about 1.5-2 hrs straight), and illuminate my cooking tasks (simple meals).

==================Flashlight Recommendation Checklist================


1) How would you prefer to purchase the light?

____I would like to purchase the light in person from a brick and mortar store. I am located in ______________.
__X__This will be mail-order or Online (location doesn't matter).


2) Budget: An easy question, but you may change your mind after answering the rest! :)

____I don't know yet
____Up to $25.
____Up to $50.
__X__Up to $100.
____Up to $200.
____Up to $300.
____Essentially unlimited.


3) Format:

____I am not sure, please help me decide.
__X__I want a flashlight (hand held/self contained).
____I want a self-contained headlamp.
____I want a headlamp with an external pack/power source.
____I want a mounted light (typically for a bicycle or vehicle)
____I want a lantern/area light.
____I want a portable spotlight (it may have an external power source).
____Other ____________________________________________


4) Size:

____MICRO - Keychain size.
____TINY - Every day carry (2-4 inches).
____SMALL - Every day carry (4-7 inches).
____MEDIUM - Holster/belt ring carry. (>7 inches)
____LARGE - Big enough to need its own travel case.
__X__I don't know/I don't care.


5) Emitter/Light source:

__X__LED (known for efficiency, longevity, and compactness)
____Incandescent (known for superior color rendition)
____HID (known for max output, but often at the expense of size)
____I don't know.


6) Manufacturer:

__X__I want to buy a light from a large/traditional manufacturer that is ready to go out of the box.
__X__I would like a light from a specialty manufacturer (Possibly limited run/Custom).
__X__I am interested in assembling my own components. (for example a "host" or flashlight body from one manufacturer, and a "drop-in" emitter from another source).
__X__I am interested in creating my light from components (have access to 3d printer and machine shop)


7) What power source do you want to use?

____I intend to use "Primary"/Disposable Alkaline batteries based on the usual AAA/AA/C/D sized cells common to most stores.
__X__I intend to use "Primary"/Disposable Lithium batteries based on the usual AAA/AA/C/D and CR123 sized cells common to most stores (often a cold weather or long storage choice).
____I intend to use Rechargeable cells (NiMH or NiCD) based on the usual AAA/AA/C/D sized cells common to most stores.
__X__I intend to use Rechargeable cells based on less common formats (18500 or 18650 Li-Ion, RCR123, et-al).
____I want a light with an integrated rechargeable battery pack.
____I don't know/I need more information on power sources.

7a) If you have selected a rechargeable option
____I want a light that plugs directly into the wall (literally with prongs built into the light)
____I want a light that has a recharging adapter (your typical "wall wart")
____I want a light that snaps into a cradle (usually mounted on a wall)
____I want a separate/stand-alone charger (this involves removing the batteries to charge)
__X__I don't care


8) How much genuine out the front (OTF) light do you want/need? Sometimes you can have too much light (trying to read up close up with a 100 lumen light is not a happy experience).

____I want to navigate a dark room or read a map (1-10 lumens).
__X__I want an indoor "blackout" light (15-50 lumens)
____I want to confidently walk around an unlit/unpaved rural area (60-150 lumens).
____I want to illuminate my entire backyard or a campsite (150-300 lumens).
____I want to illuminate an entire field, the neighbor's front yard several houses down, impress my friends and neighbors, etc. (300-700 lumens).
____I want search and rescue type illumination (800+ lumens).

____SPECIAL NOTE: Burst/Turbo mode Category - There are several lights that will run at a super bright maximum for a very limited period (usually 5-10 minutes) and then will "step-down" to a lower level for thermal control. Check here if this is acceptable.


9) Flood vs Throw: Flood covers an area, Throw reaches out to a distance.

____All Flood: I am doing "arms length" tasks like reading and campsite cooking.
____Wide Flood: I want a defined flood area for semi-close tasks like after-dark campsite tasks or working on a car.
____Narrow Flood: I want a sharply defined flood area that will project some distance for tasks like trail walking.
__X__Wide Throw: I want a beam with a noticeable hot-center for distance throw and a significant amount of "side-spill". Good for rough trail hiking, search and rescue, and general distance work.
____Narrow Throw: I want a beam with a very tight "hot center" and minimal "side-spill". Good for distance viewing, fog, and looking through dense undergrowth.
____Turbohead: I want a far-distance projector with a sharply focused spot of light and minimal or zero side-spill. Good for extreme distance and impressing your friends.

9a) Distance: How far away will you typically need to see with this light (check all that apply)
____Less than 1 yard/meter (reading, other close work)
__X__Less than 5 yards/meters (looking for something inside a dark shed/garage/basement)
____5-20 yards/meters (check out a noise in the backyard)
____30-50 yards/meters (I have a big backyard)
____50-150 yards/meters (I live in a very rural area/farm with wide open spaces)
____150+ yards (I am searching from a helicopter)

10) Runtime: Not over-inflated manufacturer runtime claims, but usable brightness measured from first activation to 50% with new batteries (Measured on maximum continuous output).

____Up to 30 minutes (I want the brightest [and potentially smallest] light for brief periods)
____30-60 minutes (I have plenty of batteries just ready to be changed)
____90-120 minutes (Runtime is moderately important, but still not critical)
__X__3 hours + (I critically need this light to run on max for extended periods in between battery changes/charges).




11) Durability/Usage: Generally the old phrase "you get what you pay for" is very accurate for flashlights.

____Not Important (A "night-stand" light).
____Slightly Important (Walks around the neighborhood).
__X__Very Important (Camping, Backpacking, Car Glove-box).
____Critical (Police, Fire, Search & Rescue, Caving, Survival).
____I don't know.


12) Switch Size, Type, and location (choose all that apply):

__X__Any size switch will do.
____I need a BIG switch (I'll be using gloves or have very large hands or coordination issues).
____I want a forward clicky (Helpful for momentary activation and signaling).
____I want a reverse clicky (For use with multi-mode/level lights).
____I want a momentary switch (Predominantly for use with signaling and short bursts of momentary light only).
____I want a twisty switch (Tighten the head/tailcap to activate, and the light will stay on until the head/tailcap is loosened).
____I want a body mounted switch (near the head, like on a Maglite).
____I want a tail mounted switch (found on the majority of today's high end lights).
____I want a remote switch (usually found on high-end bicycle headlights)
____I don't care.
____I don't know.
____Other, please specify____________________.


13) User Interface (UI) and mode selection. Select all that apply.

____A simple on-off with only one output level is fine for me.
____I want 2 light levels. (Brighter/short runtime and Dimmer/long runtime.)
__X__I want multiple light levels. (Some lights have 5-16 light levels.)
____I want a programmable light.
____I want a selector ring.
____I want a strobe mode. (Oscillating pattern to confuse/blind aka "Police Mode")
____I want SOS mode. (blinks in ---...--- emergency pattern)
____I want a beacon mode. (Regular flashes at full power to show location.)
____I don't care.
____I don't know.


14)Material/Finish/Coating

____Plastic/composite body (this may limit your choices significantly).
____Anodized Aluminum – either type II or III (Hard Anodized) (Aluminum, specifically HA, is the most common material/finish for today's higher end flashlights).
____Stainless steel (durable, but much heavier than aluminum)
____Titanium (durable and nearly as lightweight as aluminum, but can be moderately to significantly more expensive).
__X__I don't care.
____I don't know.
____Other, please specify____________.

15) Water resistance
____None needed
____IPX4 (Splash resistant)
__X__IPX7 (Waterproof to 1 meter/30min)
__X__IPX8 (Submersible to greater than 1 meter for 4 hours)

16) Storage conditions
____In house (temperature/climate controlled environment)
____Emergency kit (long standby periods)
____Automobile glove-box (wide temperature swings, long standby periods, critical reliability)
__X__Other-in pocket on trail/in camp in house at other times


17) Special Needs/extras: Is there anything else you want or need that hasn't been mentioned? Select any/all below.

____Red filter (for preserving night vision).
____Other filter colors (Amber, Green, Blue, _________).
____Dedicated R/G/B secondary LEDs.
____"Hybrid" light (bright incandescent combined with long running LEDs)
____Pocket/belt clip
____Holster
____Wrist/Neck Lanyard
____Crenulated bezel
____Non-sparking, Intrinsically Safe (IS) for use in explosive environments
__X__As light (no pun intended) as possible
 
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Poppy

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Dec 20, 2012
Messages
8,406
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Northern New Jersey
Perhaps a narrative of what you want would help more.

I'm thinking that some AAA lights may meet your needs, but I am not quite sure.

but 15-50 lumens out to 5 meters, is doable by AAA lights. 15 lumens for a few hours, 50 lumens for I guess an hour. Can you go with a battery change?

Otherwise you may be looking at a single AA light, like perhaps the Eagletac D25a
 

Labrador72

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Jan 28, 2012
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Location
European Union
What other devices do you carry with you and what battery types do you have? If you want to keep things ultralight, stick to the same battery format for all your devices. Aside from that, I'd recommend either a 2xAA or 2xCR123 light as they perform much better in terms of runtimes and brightness than the 1xbattery type with minimal additional weight and nicer to hold form factor (though it may depend on the size of your hands).
 
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newdeathscope

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Jun 10, 2014
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18
What other devices do you carry with you and what battery types do you have?
I use 2xAA for my GPS (not used unless temporary dislocated from target position :whistle:) and 2xCR123 used in my steripen adventurer. Besides my watch no other batterys (and I am NOT cannibalizing my watch to see)
 

jonnyfgroove

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Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
548
Location
Bay Area, California
Otherwise you may be looking at a single AA light, like perhaps the Eagletac D25a

Good suggestion, I just put an Energizer Ultimate Lithium in a D25A clicky with the pocket clip on. 39 grams. OP, is this way too heavy? I've read that ultra light guys roll with a Vic classic and a tiny coin cell key chain light.
 

newdeathscope

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Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
18
I used to be in that catagory when I was SUL (base pack weight under 5 lbs) and we use derma safe knifes :sigh:. I want a little more comfort as I have gotten bigger (as in continued to grow) so I am looking for something a little nicer. Is it possible to walk with the moonlight setting on a trail? What would the real world battery life be like? How many CR123's are needed to run this bad boy? How complicated is the bodys structure, I am experienced with composite layup and am wondering if I could make it out of kevlar or get it machined in Ti. Thanks for the quick reply.
 
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Poppy

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Dec 20, 2012
Messages
8,406
Location
Northern New Jersey
I used to be in that catagory when I was SUL (base pack weight under 5 lbs) and we use derma safe knifes :sigh:. I want a little more comfort as I have gotten bigger (as in continued to grow) so I am looking for something a little nicer. Is it possible to walk with the moonlight setting on a trail? What would the real world battery life be like? How many CR123's are needed to run this bad boy? How complicated is the bodys structure, I am experienced with composite layup and am wondering if I could make it out of kevlar or get it machined in Ti. Thanks for the quick reply.

Here is a review. Both the AA, and the CR123 models are available in Ti. Limited edition 2014
 
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newdeathscope

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Jun 10, 2014
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I found those on amazon but they are heavier than the aluminum versions. What led has longest battery life? What power source is lightest (battery and body combined)?
 
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reppans

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Mar 25, 2007
Messages
4,873
I'm in between UL and LW for backpacking, and consolidated around the AA format for my camping gadgets and also use a 2AA GPS (Garmin 60csx) and Steripen (but 4AA Classic). If I were you, on a AT thru-hike, I'd try and stick to AAs which are sure to be easily found at any store or gas station as you cross towns and supply stops. The most efficient cells for your flashlight will be 3V lithium primaries - the CR123 and CRAA (same but in AA size), followed by the 1.5v lithium Energizer L91... Alkalines actually are not far behind in total energy, if you stick to the lower modes. Eneloops and solar are also an option, and I have nice 4 oz 4xAA charger/panel, but under the dense tree canopy of the AT, it will require you to remain stationary for a charge (say ~3-4 hrs around noon to charge 2 Eneloop cells). I also have 2AA >5V smartphone charger for internet access (were available), backup GPS (even without cell service), taking pictures, etc.

Moonlight modes are excellent for camping and a must have for my lights, and I collect AA/moonlight lights. I personally like the "bright" moonlight modes of the Quarks and D25s (0.3-0.5 lms) since they are a comfortable book reading level for me, and therefore also fine for walking smooth trails, cooking, and other simple campsite tasks. I use moonlight and ~3 lumens about 50/40% of the time. A bright moonlight mode should run ~200+ hrs on a AA-sized cell.

As far as backpacking lights go, I prefer using a lego'd Quark QPA-X over my D25A (or ZL H51/SC52, for that matter) for a number of reasons: 1) it fully supports the 3V CRAA (CR123 equiv) for ~400 lms max output and/or longest runtime AND this cell will also power all my 2AA devices in a pinch 2) the clip is reversible (for baseball cap headlamp) and field repairable, not to mention much stronger 3) moonlight mode is more efficient and much better regulated 4) in a pinch, the Quark will fully support anything between CR123s and 18650s with a piece of MacGyver tinfoil (for 10 grams you can bring along a CR123 batt tube 5) it has a momentary max "feature" from any lower mode in use (like car high beam flashers) that is great for finding the next trail marker at a distance, investigating that bump in the woods, etc and 6) I trust more since the manufacturer does as well (better warranty, US-based).

Zebralights, and especially their H series headlamps are also a popular backpacking choice, but I've been disappointed with how far off all their L mode specs are - you may like them though. Backpackers tend to love headlamps of course, but I'm not fond of the selection and prefer to use flashlights in aftermarket headbands, or usually my DIY cord "neckband." That, and my lantern diffuser, I EDC in a wallet anyways.

Happy to answer other questions if interested... good luck.
 
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TEEJ

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Jan 12, 2012
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On rocky trails like AT, with timber rattlers out at night, etc, moonlight is very risky as a lighting level. You would have a hard time picking your lines and resolving roots from snakes from rock edges, etc....while avoiding branches, and so forth.

If you are going pretty slowly, so you have more time to see enough terrain at a time to see your way through and not trip / get bit, etc, you can use a soft floody beam that doesn't have a bright hotspot...as glare is the enemy, and, you want to see it all at once w/o needing to swing the light to and fro and up/down to try to see what's out there.

If your eyes are completely night adapted (B&W vision, all rods and no cones, etc...) you can get away with ~ 50 lux on the stuff you're trying to see (About what a child's nightlight might be casting around it) ....say to ~ 20' or so, and typically less as the distance increases. A floody light is also best for tasks like cooking/cleaning the cooking gear, setting up a tent, etc.

I can tell you that less light that that is dangerous on that trail, or can be for the parts with rattlers and loose rocks, roots, etc.

That works out to a light with ~ 2,500 cd, a very low throw rating, but, adequate for what you are describing.

So, the floodiest beam you can get with ~ 2,500 cd, will be your target spec.

If it has a moonlight mode, that's excellent for those late close tasks, like getting up to take a leak, find your boots to get out of the tent, etc.

The small CR123 sized lights that are adjustable allow you to dial in the amount of light you want at the time...so you can have moonlight/sub-lumen modes for the tent, and more to take a look down a trail/see if that's a bear cub where's momma, etc....and medium to navigate trickier sections/less for smoother sections, etc.

With a cd of only ~ 2,500, that bear may need to be 20-30 meters away to spot it easily, but eye shine can inform you of a lot of who's looking at you from quite a bit farther out than that too.


As for weight, the two approaches are lots of disposable cells that you pack in/pack out and/or keep buying and disposing of, or, just the number of cells your stuff needs, and, a solar recharger panel. The solar panels don't work as well on the AT, due to a lot of tree cover though, so, rechargeables might be less of an option for you depending upon your trail sections. If you will have clearings in the day long enough to recharge, great, but, I'd say the recommendation for primaries is probably the one you'll need, even if less carbon footprint friendly, etc.
 

weez82

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Oct 29, 2010
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464
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pacific northwest
FourSevens MiNi ML (1oz with battery) + Fenix Headband (2oz) is my go to for backpacking. Really hard to beat the size/weight performance at that price. An alternative to the Fenix headband is the FourSevens Headlamp Kit. Strongly recommend either a headband for the flashlight or a dedicated headlamp for hands free lighting. Makes a huge difference :)
 
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Dave D

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Mar 30, 2013
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+1 on the Nitecore SENS AA, 51 grams with battery, if you need brighter or longer run time they do the SENS AA2.
 

newdeathscope

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Jun 10, 2014
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You guys will have to bear with me as I go through each of these posts one at a time. Just a little note, I was just working at a camp for a week where I used a bic lighter as my light source. Granted this was on gravel where I could hear the difference between being on the road and off, it still was functional for me.

Take a look at the foursevens mini series. As an aside, they can be used with their 360 headlamp adapter.
I can't seem to find the weights of these lights with battery. Is there any way that someone could provide them? Is there a model that you recommend?

lego'd Quark QPA-X over my D25A (or ZL H51/SC52, for that matter)
Would you mind enlightening me as to the meaning of lego'd in this context? What is the weight on this light? Are you talking about the Quark pro QPA or are my Google-fu skills not up to par?

So, the floodiest beam you can get with ~ 2,500 cd, will be your target spec.
Do you have any recommendations? What is cd and how can I calculate it from other specs?

With a cd of only ~ 2,500, that bear may need to be 20-30 meters away to spot it easily
I sing songs/sing along with songs as I hike for this reason as well as the fact that it makes the miles go faster.

I had a Nitecore Sens AA
Why would you recommend this over the D25A/C? From the specs it seems to be inferior in a few of the crucial areas for me (weight, battery life) and it also has a slightly obnoxious UI. It appears that it would not work as well as they claim. Those headlamps are about 2x the weight as the most heavy flashlights that have been suggested.

A visit to a decent outdoor shop would help.
I can go visit my local REI if this would help you guys, about 20 min from where I live. I also have a Cabela's (or bass pro shop, forget which) about 45 min away.

FourSevens MiNi ML
This seems like a viable option. Are there any other people who have thoughts on this?

Strongly recommend either a headband for the flashlight or a dedicated headlamp for hands free lighting.
I can always duct tape it to my hat/my sholder. I have used a tiny figgin key chain light (Photon Micro-light II) in the past and can deal with holding something in my hand for long periods of time.

Sorry for the wall of text.
 
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weez82

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Oct 29, 2010
Messages
464
Location
pacific northwest
Here's just a random thought from a fellow backpacker that cant take a lot of weight. If your system cant handle the addition of a 1oz with battery light then you might want to re-examine your system. Most smaller sized lights with battery are 1-3oz.


I can't seem to find the weights of these lights with battery. Is there any way that someone could provide them? Is there a model that you recommend?


You can find the weight on foursevens site. They post accurate weights of the light. Then all you need to do is find the weight of the battery you want to use and do the math. If you do a little searching using the google search, top left on the forum, you should find weights for most battery types in older threads. I can tell you that a cr123 is .5oz using my scale :)


I can always duct tape it to my hat/my sholder. I have used a tiny figgin key chain light (Photon Micro-light II) in the past and can deal with holding something in my hand for long periods of time.


Kinda seems like you like to make things harder then need be and you might not even be saving on oz's to do it.


This seems like a viable option. Are there any other people who have thoughts on this?


google search top left on this forum is your friend as is youtube :)
 

newdeathscope

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Jun 10, 2014
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Sorry for not being self reliant. Typically I am pretty good about Googling. I just wanted to make sure that Foursevens posted accurate weights. I always carry duct tape around my water bottle and have taped my light to my hat in the past. Thanks for all of your help guys
 

newdeathscope

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Jun 10, 2014
Messages
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Thanks, I can take the extra oz but would prefer not to. When I was using the Photon my pack weight was about 3.5 lbs. I have been all over the spectrum when it comes to pack weight. really heavy starting out, then sul, and now ul.
 
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