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Thread: Best 18650 battery question

  1. #31

    Default Re: What battery to use?

    3000 mA refers to the maximum amperage the flashlight might pull on high mode, meaning you need a battery capable of delivery a sustained 3A current. Any quality 18650 cell can do this without a problem. I would suggest looking for a Panasonic 18650 with PCB protection. Make sure you get cells made in Japan.

  2. #32

    Default Best 18650 lithium ion batteries--protected

    Hello
    I am looking to stock up on 18650 batteries and wanted to know what brand is the one most of you prefer. Right now I have nitecore but they are expensive. I also have some ultrafire.

    I have seen panasonic, thrunite brands out there. What are the best for performance and price.
    Thanks again

  3. #33
    *Flashaholic* kj2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best 18650 lithium ion batteries--protected

    Check out the battery section. There are numerous threads about this.

  4. #34
    Flashaholic* ChrisGarrett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best 18650 lithium ion batteries--protected

    Quote Originally Posted by Chewiekw View Post
    Hello
    I am looking to stock up on 18650 batteries and wanted to know what brand is the one most of you prefer. Right now I have nitecore but they are expensive. I also have some ultrafire.

    I have seen panasonic, thrunite brands out there. What are the best for performance and price.
    Thanks again
    I'm running naked cells in my single cell lights and checking things frequently, which is important if you 'fly naked' like I do.

    LG D1 3000mAh, LG E1 3200mAh, Samsung 25R 2500mAh, Panasonic NCR18650A 3100mAh and some Sanyo 2600mAh cells are in constant rotation.

    All of them can be had for under $8-$9 if you look around and buy from a reputable dealer. Some dealers are adding button tops, if you need them and even doing some of those with protection circuits, for a few bucks more.

    Chris
    Convoy: S2, S2+, M1, M2, Fenix: P1D, PD32, HL30, ET: D25C Ti, SF: 6P, ZL: SC-600, Klarus: P2A, Jetbeam: BA-20, Icon: Rogue 1, L3: L10, Xeno: E03, ShiningBeam: I-Mini, Olight: i3s, SWM: D40A, M11R, V11R, Maglite: 6Ds, MMs, Solitaires, LaCrosse BC-700, Maha C-9000, XTAR VP2, MP1S, XP1, MC1+, WP2 II, NiteCore i4, v2.

  5. #35

    Default Re: Best 18650 lithium ion batteries--protected

    Should you store 18650 batteries fully charged? Also when they say do not discharge below 2.5v under load, what are they referring too? Sorry for the newbie questions but i want to make sure i am handling these correctly and know as much as possible.

  6. #36
    ven's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best 18650 lithium ion batteries--protected

    Around 3.6v is 40% charged so ideally between 3.6 and 4.2v are best for cell/performance wise for running your light. 2.5 is max discharge,beyond could damage cell long term if happens regular. Lots of lights will warm via flashes or loss of modes,maybe shut off before this point be it 3.0v or 3.3v (example).

    Storing cells at 4.2v for 2 months is fine,long term then better stored around 3.6v-3.7v.

  7. #37
    Flashaholic* Conte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best 18650 battery question

    How long will you be storing them?

    And the second question is pretty self explanatory.

    Lion' batteries can get damaged or violent if you over discharge them. So don't run them down under 2.5v. Make 3v for good measure as difficult batteries have different specs but 3v works for all lions.

    Under load means while the are in use.
    The voltage Drops while you are sucking power out of them, then jumps back up again when you turn the light off.

    While you are running your light, you don't want the voltage to drop under said voltage, 2.5 to 2.75v.

    You can't really test this without the tools and knowhow, but any protected battery will automatically cut off at the correct point. Most good led lights will also have voltage detection built in and turn off or dim at the right point.

    Invest in a multi meter so you can measure voltage and you'll get a feel for it.

    Otherwise, if your running unprotected cells, just don't rum them down and wait till they are dead to recharge.

  8. #38
    Flashaholic* ChrisGarrett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best 18650 battery question

    Anecdotally, if I'll not be using my cells for 3 months at a stretch, or longer, they get discharged like others have intimated, to ~3.6v-3.7v and then they go into plastic cases and then into a Ziplock baggie, where I'll note the date on the bag with a Sharpie.

    As to discharge voltage levels, I think it's Panasonic that uses 2.50v for most of their cobalt cells and Sony, Samsung, LG and Sanyo were at 2.75v, but that's changing with some of these newer 'high drain, high current' chemistries, so check with your particular model of cell.

    I try not to go down below 3.5v on any of my various chemistries, but have done so here and there. The key then, is to charge them back up quickly and don't let them sit for weeks or months.

    Chris
    Convoy: S2, S2+, M1, M2, Fenix: P1D, PD32, HL30, ET: D25C Ti, SF: 6P, ZL: SC-600, Klarus: P2A, Jetbeam: BA-20, Icon: Rogue 1, L3: L10, Xeno: E03, ShiningBeam: I-Mini, Olight: i3s, SWM: D40A, M11R, V11R, Maglite: 6Ds, MMs, Solitaires, LaCrosse BC-700, Maha C-9000, XTAR VP2, MP1S, XP1, MC1+, WP2 II, NiteCore i4, v2.

  9. #39

    Default Re: Best 18650 battery question

    Here is a question for ya. In going through the test charts, I mean, it seems efest, keepower, and lg aren't a bad battery and are comparable to other high performers like the Panasonic. I haven't seen much mention of them however. Ive been trying to research batteries for the last week or so, and its kind of a lot to take in lol. Why are the Panasonics seemingly the first choice, it would appear they are hands down the favorite here?

  10. #40

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    Default Re: Best 18650 battery question

    Quote Originally Posted by pipes View Post
    Here is a question for ya. In going through the test charts, I mean, it seems efest, keepower, and lg aren't a bad battery and are comparable to other high performers like the Panasonic. I haven't seen much mention of them however. Ive been trying to research batteries for the last week or so, and its kind of a lot to take in lol. Why are the Panasonics seemingly the first choice, it would appear they are hands down the favorite here?
    MANY companies just re-brand Panasonics (put a new wrapper on them, and maybe a protection circuit). In your own question, for example, Keeppower actually uses Panasonic cells. So does Thrunite, Callie's Kustoms, Orbtronic, SoShine, Olight, Nitecore, some Fenix cells, some AW cells, Brillipower, Eagletac, Intl-Outdoor, and Xtar. This is by no means a complete list...but you are getting the idea. Panasonic has the highest volume, it has the highest capacity cells, and it is probably spending the most money on research and development. So it isn't very surprising that they are generally recommended.

    For certain applications, you might find other cells that are equivalent, or even better, than the Panasonics. Right now, for example, for high-drain cells, Sony VTC5 and Efest 35A 18650s are king. The LG D1/E1 are 4.35 volt cells that hold a higher voltage for longer than just about any other, if that is your criteria. But Panasonic has the highest capacity, which for most people, is either the first or the only thing they know to look for. If you have a specific question, about a certain light (or even better, a specific current that you need a cell to supply) there are a few people that can help with it. But if you ask for a general recommendation, it is hard to go wrong with Panasonic cells. They are high quality, and serve well enough for most people.

  11. #41
    Flashaholic* ChrisGarrett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best 18650 battery question

    Right now, at least on the E-cig 'sub-ohm' forums, I'm reading that those nutters are having good luck with the Samsung 25Rs and the LG HE2s for really hard use. The Sony VTC5s are starting to get a bit tarnished, lol.

    Chris
    Convoy: S2, S2+, M1, M2, Fenix: P1D, PD32, HL30, ET: D25C Ti, SF: 6P, ZL: SC-600, Klarus: P2A, Jetbeam: BA-20, Icon: Rogue 1, L3: L10, Xeno: E03, ShiningBeam: I-Mini, Olight: i3s, SWM: D40A, M11R, V11R, Maglite: 6Ds, MMs, Solitaires, LaCrosse BC-700, Maha C-9000, XTAR VP2, MP1S, XP1, MC1+, WP2 II, NiteCore i4, v2.

  12. #42

    Default Re: Best 18650 battery question

    Since Im pretty new to this interestingly deep subject of flashlights and batteries, I have decided to go with a protected cell. Im about to buy my third light, the nitecore p25, and Im pretty sure my 4th will be an olight m3x triton

  13. #43

    Default Re: Best 18650 battery question

    Quote Originally Posted by subwoofer View Post
    Fenix recommend flat top cells for the BC30.Let us know how you get on. The BC30 cell holder is quite tight, so cell length will make a difference.
    LOL, I use button top 3400 Olight's, bit tight to remove but seems ok, just have to be carefull, they fit and going without any effort though so not to big, but yes I can see how flat tops might be better here ahahaha, never even knew falts were recomended.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Best 18650 lithium ion batteries--protected

    Quote Originally Posted by Chewiekw View Post
    Hello
    I am looking to stock up on 18650 batteries and wanted to know what brand is the one most of you prefer. Right now I have nitecore but they are expensive. I also have some ultrafire.

    I have seen panasonic, thrunite brands out there. What are the best for performance and price.
    Thanks again
    For a high quality protected 18650 3400mAh battery, I like the Keeppower, Orbtronics, and AW. I spent some time playing with the battery comparison tool HKJ has at his website, and those 3 brands are what stood out to me. The Keeppower is the best buy in the bunch, around $14 each at illumn.com.
    Last edited by SubLGT; 09-26-2014 at 08:40 PM.

  15. #45
    Flashaholic* Conte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best 18650 battery question

    Those are probably all re wrapped panasonics.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think panasonic is the only one making a 3400 right now. Any 3400 battery is most likely a re wrapped panasonic.

  16. #46

    Default Re: Best 18650 battery question

    Greetings ALL,
    I've read Panasonic picked up (bought) Sanyo for their battery expertise.
    Any info available on this?
    I got's to know, pc

  17. #47

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    Default Re: Best 18650 battery question

    Quote Originally Posted by pocketchange View Post
    I've read Panasonic picked up (bought) Sanyo for their battery expertise.
    Any info available on this?
    I don't know any details to speak of, but yes, that is true. I found out when I was looking for Eneloops, and found a bunch of Panasonics. They now own the Eneloop name, so they have both the highest capacity 18650s, and the best NiMH cells.

  18. #48

    Default Re: Best 18650 battery question

    Whereabouts do you buy your 18650's? Besides amazon?

  19. #49

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    Default Re: Best 18650 battery question

    Quote Originally Posted by pipes View Post
    Whereabouts do you buy your 18650's? Besides amazon?
    Illumination Supply and Mountain Electronics are my go-to stores. I've placed several orders at each site, and haven't had a problem. Amazon is a last resort, 18650s are generally more expensive there, and you don't have nearly as many options.

  20. #50

    Default Re: Best 18650 battery question

    Quote Originally Posted by thedoc007 View Post
    Illumination Supply and Mountain Electronics are my go-to stores. I've placed several orders at each site, and haven't had a problem. Amazon is a last resort, 18650s are generally more expensive there, and you don't have nearly as many options.
    +1 on this!

    Both places have better prices for any stocked cell than I have ever found on Amazon too, even with Prime shipping.

  21. #51

    Default Re: Best 18650 battery question

    Thanks, I appreciate it.

  22. #52

    Default Re: Best 18650 battery question

    Hey, all flat top unprotected lol. Ill check Mountain

  23. #53

    Default Re: What battery to use?

    For my flashlights, I don't really care if a battery cost $5 or $8 or $1. It is all about the same. But I want to build a battery pack for an electric bike and need 65 18650s.

    I see I can buy cells for $1 each or Panasonic for $5 each. If you had to buy 65 cells and capacity, reliability, charge cycles, and discharge rate all mattered - which cells would you go with knowing that the price adds up massively when you need 65 of them.

  24. #54
    ven's Avatar
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    Default Re: What battery to use?

    IMHO rsilvers,for capacity,reliability and charge cycles then the only option would be a good brand of cell. Panasonic are certainly one,maybe find sanyo or samsung for cheaper still. Not sure what brand(probably none) the $1 cells are,but i sure would not have confidence in them,more so using 65 for them and being reliant on.

  25. #55

    Default Re: What battery to use?

    Also it seems like when you use multiple cells, you must use protected cells.

    Panasonic NCR18650B may be the way to go.

    Seems like the best possible price for them is $6.50 each.

  26. #56
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    Default Re: What battery to use?

    No - What you want is unprotected, and then add a BMS (Battery Management System).

    I would like to build a 14S/9P pack for my bike (126 cells), and the only reason that I have not yet begun, is the cost of good cells.

    I would not even dream of setting myself up for the disappointment that $1 cells can provide.

    Here is a good site that you may like:

    https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi...365ea508c1f9cf

    Thanks,
    -Chuck

  27. #57

    Default Re: What battery to use?

    I didn't research BMS yet, but my guess was that each parallel bank would use a BMS but each row in series would want protected cells. Or does the BMS see each and every cell?

    I will look into that. Here are some protected cells I found:

    $3.25 each http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LC92V8C?psc=1
    Someone claims to have tested these at 2100 each. Someone else said 2200 each. So it may be true. That is $1.55 per Ah.


    $4.99 each http://www.amazon.com/Acatim-18650-R...t_sims?ie=UTF8
    Someone claimed these test at 2500. That is $2 per Ah.

    $5.66 each http://www.amazon.com/Vafru-18650-25...10112773011_73
    Claim these are really 2500. That is $2.27 per Ah.

    $8 each http://www.amazon.com/Foxnovo-ICR186...10112773011_56
    Someone claimed these tested at 2600. That is $3.08 per Ah. Probably not worth it.

    As for the NCR18650Bs - I only looked at ones that were under $8 each, and all of them said "For Panasonic." That seems like weasel words for "These are fake."

    If I end up wanting protected, then I may order 2-3 of these and test them and then get more. If I end up wanting non-protected, I see lots of Samsungs listed that I need to look into.

  28. #58

    Default Re: What battery to use?

    I see that LunaCycle has unprotected LG and Samsung for $4.05 each. Best deal I found so far on something known to be good.

  29. #59
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    Default Re: What battery to use?

    Have a look at Samsung 26F, 2600MAH so not highest mah but acceptable and a good brand. Also if using so many i dont think it will make it over critical and re-charge times will be quicker.

    Good cheap cells,look to importing(make sure check out seller and shop properly ),places like aliexpress will have 100+ at a time . Again double check reviews and seller first,but it will be one of the cheapest options of buying so many cells in one hit. Its more than likely what sellers be it US or UK do anyway.........Your missing out the middleman but do increase the risk.

    Prepare for a long delivery time as chances it could come by sea and not air.........maybe 4-5 weeks(dont know). But maybe questions to ask if you choose that way

    Good luck

  30. #60
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    Default Re: What battery to use?

    Here is an interesting read about various Li-ion batteries. I have no idea about the accuracy of the author's assertions:
    https://mindofmorandir.wordpress.com...tteries-rev-3/

    A short excerpt:

    "...AW- In terms of cells these are the highest quality available. Andrew Wang used to work for Panasonic, developed his own company, and is the top provider of cells to flashlight users (and of course now vapers). He gets the top 5%*7 of cells from Panasonic, Sanyo, etc. and puts his custom PCB on ICR cells. Cells routinely last 500 charges or more if handled properly.

    Efest- Top 10% of cells from the same manufacturers as AW, though also gets cells from LG (top 15%) and Sony (top 15%). These do not last as long as as AW, but perform as well over the first 150 charges. Usually last 250-300 charges*8. As with the recent trend, another knock on Efest is their over stating of their amp limits on a lot of their high drain batteries.

    LG- Top 10% of cells are sold as bare cells to consumers. The top 5% are reserved only for cars, phones, laptops. They have improved their cell quality and chemistry over time. Would put them one notch below AW, but right up there with the other big battery manufacturers…"

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