Nitecore D4 vs. i4?

So, right to the point....... Just bought a new toy, the TK75vnKT, and still need to get batts and maybe a new charger. In fact, since I already have the light in hand, i am just DYING to try it.
I already have the i4 intellicharger. But, I now see the D4 digicharger for sale, and wondering if the upgrade is worth it or not. I am not the most technically advanced guy on here lol, so I don't usually test my voltages with a multimeter like many say is a good thing. Now Im wondering if the upgrade is good for someone like me, who can now see whats going on with the voltage without needing the dmm.

Hope I explained this right, but kind of want a new setup. The i4 is ok, but takes a long time to charge, especially 18650s, and just the 3 lights got old pretty quick. The d4 looks pretty cool. Is this much better than the i4? And, if you feel like suggesting others, if I am missing any other great ones with lcd screens like this that are trusted, please do tell.

I will be using Eagletac 3400mah 18650s with this light. If for some reason I shouldn't please tell me. but, I have used these batts before with my SRT7 that got stolen the other day, so I do like these batteries. I figure it is best to have 4 fresh cells, so I will be buying 4 even though I still have a few from the Srt that have a bunch of cycles on them already.

And, Im guessing illumination supply is a good place to buy? I hear good things about them. You can PM me if its not ok to talk about vendors here.

Thanks for any help/advice. Im kind of in a rush to get these batts, and need to order asap due to my impatience and my new light sitting on my lap, poor old thing is empty inside....


dave



edit: I didn't see it anywhere, but does the D4 Digicharger come with an option for Car adaptor 12v? Thanks

How can you stand having that light without batteries?

If you can't wait, maybe a local vaping shop has some batteries and even a charger, though you'll likely pay more.

Otherwise, Illumination Supply (IS) or MtnElectronics are good, as well as other common CPF vendors. I like the ET 3400s too but if you are ordering from IS they have Soshine 3400s at $10 each and I believe it's the same Panasonic cells inside.

I believe that the D4 is charging at the same speed as the i4, i.e. very slow.

I would look at the xtar xp4 ,0.25/.5/1A charge options.

Hi Dave

Actually there is not much different between Nitecore D4 and I4 , The only different is that D4 with a LCD screen , the charge speed are the same, but if you think the nitecore cost long time to charge 18650 battery, you can choose the Xtar ,AWT Battery charger, which with LCD screen and also it can option 0.25A,1A,1.5A when charging your battery. so it may be more faster when charging .

Okay, thanks for the replies. I do kinda like the look of that D4, but too bad its just as sloooooowwwww.
Anyways, does anyone actually use their chargers in the car? I don't hear about anyone really doing it any other way but in the wall.

side note, for camping and hiking trips, can any of these hook up to some sort of solar charger? That is probably next thing to buy, so just thinking a bit in advance.

Those soshines look good, perhaps I will try them.



And yes, I am just going nuts waiting to try this light. To be honest, I ordered from Vinh on Saturday, the light got here monday. I figured he would need some time to get it shipped out, but I was wrong. Fastest service I've ever seen really. Can't wait to post a thread about the light with some pics. I am actually carrying this light on me in the car everywhere i go, even without the batts, because I am so happy with it! Don't worry though, I now bring it in my bag if I leave the car, as to not get this light stolen too.....
They will have to kill me to get this light from me this time!

Thanks guys

dave

cistallus said:

Otherwise, Illumination Supply (IS) or MtnElectronics are good, as well as other common CPF vendors. I like the ET 3400s too but if you are ordering from IS they have Soshine 3400s at $10 each and I believe it's the same Panasonic cells inside.

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+1. Though the SoShines aren't green and white , they are a LOT cheaper, and offer the same capacity. Either shop is excellent, in my experience, and they both offer fairly quick shipping.

I did get a couple Nitecore d4s, since I really like having the display. But the i4 is a fine charger...just plan ahead a little, and the slow charging shouldn't matter. It is also gentler on the cells than a rapid charger. I have both types available, but I use the i4/d4 a lot even so.

Perfect. Thanks again. Yea Eric, green/white lol, ....Sounds great though, putting my order in right now!!!

btw, are the readings on the D4 pretty accurate? Lets say, could you substitute that for using a DMM all the time? That is my biggest thing I guess. Thanks


dave

While I'm always a fan of having options, I'm not sure why anyone would choose the D4 over the Efest LUC V4. You can charge two cells at two amps, or four cells at a half amp or one amp. And it's cheaper.

That Efest looks really nice too. Nice to have those options, but is it bad to charge the cells at a faster rate? As far as battery life that is...?


My biggest thing, is that all you guys speak of not letting your cells go below 3.7v or whatever, and so far since I got into Li-ion, I have kind of just been letting them run down to maybe half power, then throwing back on the charger. I want to be more responsible with my cells, but just always in a rush and can't always whip out the DMM every time I charge batts, which is usually every other day for my EDC. Not sure yet about the TK75vnKT.

My edc though, my Sc52w with 14500, seems to run out almost completely sometimes, or at least down to 1 out of the 4 blinks for "low battery warning." So, I think this is bad from what I understand, and I would like to avoid this now with a LCD screen that tells me the voltages more easily. Thanks

dave

MBentz said:

While I'm always a fan of having options, I'm not sure why anyone would choose the D4 over the Efest LUC V4. You can charge two cells at two amps, or four cells at a half amp or one amp. And it's cheaper.

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1. Appearance...I like the d4 much better. And it has a much larger and brighter screen.
2. No LiFeO4 support on the Efest.
3. No support for NiMH or NiCad with the Efest.
4. In HKJ's review, his charger consistently overcharged, even to the point of tripping protection in some cases. This was true on all slots. That is not only going to increase wear on the cells, but is potentially unsafe. Edit: I read the updated review, and apparently they fixed this problem.
5. In HKJ's review, he found the voltage read .06V too low on the Efest.
6. HKJ feels that 500ma is too high for 10440, except for IMR. If you pair two 10440s in the d4, 375ma is less hard on the cells.

If you get the updated version, the Efest seems good for li-ion (except 10440). But it isn't a universal charger like the d4, which can handle NiMH, LiFeO4, and NiCads in addition to the standard 4.2V li-ion.

To each his own, I say. But I'm very happy I went with the d4.

d.weglarz13 said:

That Efest looks really nice too. Nice to have those options, but is it bad to charge the cells at a faster rate? As far as battery life that is...?


My biggest thing, is that all you guys speak of not letting your cells go below 3.7v or whatever, and so far since I got into Li-ion, I have kind of just been letting them run down to maybe half power, then throwing back on the charger. I want to be more responsible with my cells, but just always in a rush and can't always whip out the DMM every time I charge batts, which is usually every other day for my EDC. Not sure yet about the TK75vnKT.

My edc though, my Sc52w with 14500, seems to run out almost completely sometimes, or at least down to 1 out of the 4 blinks for "low battery warning." So, I think this is bad from what I understand, and I would like to avoid this now with a LCD screen that tells me the voltages more easily. Thanks

dave

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Generally you can charge any cell at a 1C rate. For example, a 3,400 mAh 18650 cell can be charged safely at a rate up to 3.4 amps. Some higher quality cells can be charged at a 2C rate (which would be 6.8 amps in this example) or higher.

I've been using my V4 to charge everything from 16350 cells up to 26650s. They have all been pulled off the charger at 4.19v or 4.2v per my DMM. I wouldn't consider any charger to be a substitute for a DMM.

Efest updated the V4, and you can read HKJ's updated review here: http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Efest LUC V4 2014 UK.html

MBentz said:

Generally you can charge any cell at a 1C rate. For example, a 3,400 mAh 18650 cell can be charged safely at a rate up to 3.4 amps. Some higher quality cells can be charged at a 2C rate (which would be 6.8 amps in this example) or higher.

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Have you explained to Panasonic that their data sheets are wrong?
They specify 0.3C for NCR18650 and NCR18650A, according to you they must be really low quality cells.

MBentz said:

Generally you can charge any cell at a 1C rate. For example, a 3,400 mAh 18650 cell can be charged safely at a rate up to 3.4 amps. Some higher quality cells can be charged at a 2C rate (which would be 6.8 amps in this example) or higher.

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You may be able to do that safely, but charging at high rates does shorten the life of a cell. There is a reason that there aren't any chargers (other than hobby chargers) that have several amp charge currents. Heat also becomes a bigger issue when the charge current is high. And heat degrades a li-ion cell in itself, even if everything else is within acceptable limits.

Edit: Wasn't aware that Panasonic recommends .3C. So you are well outside the recommended charge at even two amps, for an 18650. Thanks HKJ!

HKJ said:

Have you explained to Panasonic that their data sheets are wrong?
They specify 0.3C for NCR18650 and NCR18650A, according to you they must be really low quality cells.

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No, I wouldn't bother wasting my time talking to Panasonic when their lawyers are more concerned about liability rather than how quickly a cell can be charged.

I don't recall saying charging below 1C means a cell is of low quality. Please quote me so I can see it and make the necessary changes.

MBentz said:

No, I wouldn't bother wasting my time talking to Panasonic when their lawyers are more concerned about liability rather than how quickly a cell can be charged.

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Yes, the probably want the cell to live as long as specified and not explode while charging.

MBentz said:

I don't recall saying charging below 1C means a cell is of low quality. Please quote me so I can see it and make the necessary changes.

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You do imply it by saying "Some higher quality cells can be charged at a 2C rate". The high charge rate has nothing to do with quality, but with chemistry. Even a low quality IMR cell may have a 2C charge rate.

If that's how you want to infer what I said, that's fine. I won't argue that.

I've only been using LiPo batteries for the past decade, so I'm no expert. I have however charged every cell at a 1C rate when possible and have yet to experience an issue. I've never had a bulging, smoking, hot, etc etc cell from charging at 1C, and that's not because I've been lucky.

I have both chargers. The D4 is more informative, period. And its sliders are in another league: as smooth as any slider should be. I was thinking that both would charge my batteries the same way but according to my DDM (Milwaukee 2216-20), they don't.

All of my Li-Ion batteries come out of my i4 at a higher voltage than they do out of my new D4. Measured just after charge cycle termination, my brand new Keeppower 3400's are at 4.20+V via the i4 whereas 4.18+V via the D4. An hour later, the ones from the i4 drop to 4.18+V and the ones from the D4 drop to 4.16+V.

The same happens with older Li-Ion batteries, albeit at slightly lower voltages. I don't know if this is a typical difference between the i4 and D4. I wonder if this may be an acceptable manufacturing tolerance between any two units… Therefore, I tend to use my i4 for charging my batteries which will be used soon and my D4 for the ones that will sit for a while without being actually used.

Bucur said:

I have both chargers. The D4 is more informative, period. And its sliders are in another league: as smooth as any slider should be.

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Totally agree & I also have both the D4 & the I4.

I currently have a dozen of the Panasonic protected 3400 mAh cells. All came from R-L Sales on eBay & cost $22.65 per pair. One caution on these is sizing because of the protection circuit - the seller states:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Size: 69.35mm tall including button top x 18.73mm wide.[/FONT]

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I don't have any new AW cells for comparison but they may run smaller.

The only time I see an issue with stacked length is when running 2x18650 in the Fury P3X with extender. Some do OK with the factory tailcap but on others the tailcap cannot screw down far enough to make contact. The easy solution is to use a Z59 tailcap & that works 100% of the time.
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Back on topic ... I read somewhere that both the I4 & D4 have two charging channels. If slots 1&2 (or 3&4) are used the charge current on both cells is 500 mA. If slots 1&3 (or 2&4) are used the charge current is 750 mA ... which is what the display reads on the D4. Is this correct?

I have both..or did have. The D4 Lithium termination was 4.153 across all 4 of my 18650, my i4 nails it at 4.204 when fresh off charger. The display of the D4 is nice but the voltage reading are off as per mentioned termination voltage, as it reads higher than my fluke meter.

I have some 3 cell NiMH lights but both these chargers fail due to improper charger contact with cells and IMHO, way to high charge current, 375ma, for the 900ma AAA cells. I'm not a fan of fast hot charging. My old MAHA can only do 2 or 4 AAA cells so was hoping the Nitecores would be better at being single, small cell friendly.

Hopefully my D4 was just an odd one but would hope that someone sends on to HKJ for testing in the future.