Forget Cheap and Bright; Let's Talk About Old, Dim, Expensive Flashlights!

nbp

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Perhaps, like me, you have grown weary of sifting through all the dozens of new lights coming out every year from big faceless manufacturing companies stamping out identical lights for half a dozen different private labels, with lots of whiz bang modes and thousands of lumens.

These lights have no SOUL! No HEART! No PASSION! Who cares about all those lumens - dark is no darker than it ever was and I don't need to see any farther than I ever saw. I want to pick up this lighting tool and smile because someone created this with their sweat and blood, and it's just right. I want to be able to learn about the maker from the light I have in my hands. Why did he make it this way? Why did he incorporate in these features? How does he use these very same lights in his personal life? What can I perceive about him as a designer and innovator and person by the product he manufactured?

Sometimes to do this, you have to step back and look at the lights that don't get as much discussion. Sure they might be old, or dim by today's standards, or you might have pay silly prices for them as they are out of production or were modded to get them just right. But they are the lights that allow you to connect with the person who made it and when you pick it up, it just feels right.

I recently picked up a Zebralight SC52 L2. Very nice little light, no doubt. But I lost interest pretty quickly. It has no soul, no heart.

So let's forget about new, cheap bright lights for a minute and talk about lights you love because they have SOUL, they have PASSION, they have HEART... lights that are awesome even though they might be old and dim and expensive. :)




For example: One light that does this for me is the old Ra Twisties. I have two of them, a 100Tw and an 85Tr. Yes, the 85Tr only has 85 lumens!!! The Twisty came out in 2008, that's pretty old in flashlight years! And you'll probably pay upwards of $150 for one on the secondary market now.

At the time it offered pretty decent output - and many people loved it for it's long runtime on low modes. Besides, what really mattered was it's ridiculous toughness when abused and its innovative UI. The three mode progressive twisty was a hit. Personally, I love it! Not too many makers use the progressive twisty and I can only think of Enrique having done it with three modes. If you wanted, you could do like 200 twists and program the output on the three levels yourself. Who else was offering programmable interfaces in 2008???

Plus on the Tr models, Henry utilized the red secondary LED/reverse polarity indicator (some debate on that) as a low red mode with two higher white modes. How cool is that?!! That has never been duplicated without the used of multiple emitters - it was genius and these lights are pretty highly sought after even now.

The Ra Twisty set the standard for the HDS lights we know so well today, giving us the classic look and feel of the Clickies and Rotaries still available. I think they are awesome, and when you use one, you can't help but think about Henry and how he made one sweet light with the Ra Twisty.






Stupid imageshack, I am not going to start paying to post my previously uploaded pictures in a normal size. :scowl:
 
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bondr006

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Re: Forget Cheap and Bright; Let's Talk About Old, Dim Expensive Flashlights!

+1

My HDS lights may not be the brightest lights I own, but they sure are my favorites. There are no other lights in my collection that I cannot leave home without. And as the OP said...."dark is no darker than it ever was and I don't need to see any farther than I ever saw". I can honestly say that no other light that I have ever held feels the way an HDS light does in my hand. And for sure, no other light can touch the HDS UI. If I had to pick just two lights out of my whole collection, there would be no contest. HDS would win hands down.

 

Haesslich

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Re: Forget Cheap and Bright; Let's Talk About Old, Dim Expensive Flashlights!

I've got two candidates:

The Fliklite LS:1 - green as hell, and the body's rough from pocket-carrying it for over a year, but I still have it and use it occasionally because of its unique switch - flicking the light to turn it on, slapping the base to turn it off.

The Fenix L1P - almost ten years in, and it still has a tint that few modern lights match - creamy white with a hint of yellow, and damn bright for a 1xAA. It's old, but solid - it never failed me when travelling, which is more than I can say for the Streamlight Microstream I bought several years later, which died one night due to the switch deciding to break. While out of country. At night. Way less reliable than that cheaper Fenix. It's now my bedside light, and I always know what light I'm grabbing first if I have to get up while it's dark. Even if it doesn't go out anymore.
 

calipsoii

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Re: Forget Cheap and Bright; Let's Talk About Old, Dim Expensive Flashlights!

My very first 'true' flashlight and one that still holds a sweet spot in my heart wasn't made by a single person, but it was introduced at a time when few companies even bothered to produce LED flashlights. This was one of the ground-breakers in my mind, and it should be recognized for that.

x0table.jpg


It's an Emissive Energy Inova X1 v1. The form-factor will probably be familiar to many. They were recently purchased by NiteIze. The aesthetic has not changed throughout all of that.

The v1 was introduced in 2003 and houses a single Nichia 5mm LED (not a GS, those came much later). The new 'Luxeon' power LED's were on the horizon at that time, but aside from a little company called Arc on a little forum called CPF, they were not yet used in mass production.

The v1 sported an anti-reflective collimating glass lens, which rumor had it, was produced by a well-known camera lens manufacturer:
x0lens.jpg


This lens, combined with the 5mm Nichia LED, threw a very distinctive beam:
x0beam.jpg


The v1 got 8 hours of runtime (to 50%) on a single AA alkaline cell. It's next major revision, the v3 (sporting a Luxeon powerLED and a reflector) got 2 hours. The lumen race had begun. :crackup:
 
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Bullzeyebill

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Re: Forget Cheap and Bright; Let's Talk About Old, Dim Expensive Flashlights!

Nitecore D10 and EX10, awesome lights in their time, and in our time. I remember DM's evalation of those lights. I have four of the D10's. Not terribly bright, but great engineering.

Bill
 

pjandyho

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Re: Forget Cheap and Bright; Let's Talk About Old, Dim Expensive Flashlights!

no SOUL! No HEART! No PASSION!

These words really caught my attention because these are exactly what I felt with all those new lights that are hitting us in troves from Asia. Not that they are incompetent. On the contrary, some are pretty well made with all the bells and whistles, but they just lacked a soul, a heart, and passion.

My all time favorite is still very much my Haiku and since you have written a "love letter" about it I shall not dive into why I love it so much. I felt the same way about the Haiku as you do. Over the years, I have some personal favorites, or rather one of the favorites (like the latest Surefire E1DL), but none has ever replaced the Haiku. As for HDS, I love them a lot for all the innovations and sweat that Henry has painstakingly put into the design, but the simplicity and aesthetics of a McGizmo Haiku trumps everything with the HDS (any model) catching up closely behind. Lights from these two makers take on a rotational role in my EDC. How grateful am I for Don and Henry's existence!

Thanks Nick for such a thread. We need something like this to spice up CPF and you did it again with this thread! :twothumbs
 

euroken

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Re: Forget Cheap and Bright; Let's Talk About Old, Dim Expensive Flashlights!

My alltime favorites, LF2XT and ti RA. Can't speak enough of quality and technology's in those lights. Expensive as heck now but not so bright compared to today's EDC's.
 

Haesslich

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Re: Forget Cheap and Bright; Let's Talk About Old, Dim Expensive Flashlights!

I remember that one - one of the first TIR lights, when everyone had either bare LEDs, or reflectors. It also came in red and blue LED flavours, IIRC. You wouldn't see a larger adoption of TIR optics for about 5-7 years. But it was solid when i first handled an X1 back in 04 or so.
 

nbp

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Great posts so far guys, you got the drift!

It's great to see mention of some of the old unique lights that captured our attention in the past. You have jogged my memory of some great stuff! :thumbsup:
 

ARA

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I agree the new lights coming out now all look the same to me. Too tacticool, poor aesthetics and insane number of blinky modes. Nothing like a good ole surefire lego-able and still capable of competing with the brightest out there with just a change of the bulb.

My particular favourites which I also own are the M6. C2,6P, Z2 and U2. Timeless designs of an era gone. The new surefire models also seem lacking of a soul and aesthetics too IMHO.

After trying a number of the Chinese offerings I still prefer my 6P.



Sent from my iPad using Candlepowerforums
 

gravelmonkey

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Oldest light I own is probably a Fenix TK20 from c.2008. Probably the most solid 2*AA light ever made, very nice tint and a respectable throw with it's "whopping" 150 lumens.

Edit to add- it was also expensive to me!
 

BobG

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I have 7 Arc LSH-p lights each costing $150. Throw in a couple Arc-4's and 3 or four Arc AA and about a dozen Arc AAA premiums.... oh, and 3 Arc AAA RGB's and I have passion, pride, heart and soul all sewn up... and no I will not part with any of them.
 

archimedes

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Thanks for starting this thread nbp :)

I think I'll list a few of my favorites (all discontinued), and why I chose them ....

Ra 85Tr ... 85 lumens (of course)
Great UI - progressive twisty
Programmable
Two color output
Super-tough

Peak ShastaX ... 50 lumens
Uses N-cells
Brass patina
The particular LED in mine has the very best tint of any emitter I've ever seen

Peak McKinley 7-LED ... ~14(?) lumens
Looks cool :D
Really efficient at draining batteries

SureFire A2 ... 50 lumens
Regulated incandescent
Two color output
Has both LEDs & a lamp
Has both flood & throw

SureFire L1-RD ... ~20/1(?) lumens
Excellent UI - progressive momentary/twisty
Very looooooong runtime

Malkoff M30 ... 235(!) lumens
Flexible voltage range can be powered by either 1x primary or 1x Li-Ion

McGizmo AMC Mule ... (80) lumens
Nickel plating looks great - better than chrome, cheaper than titanium
Ultra-floody beam
Outstanding clip & switch design :)

McGizmo Aleph series ... ??? lumens
Modular design - "build your own" specifications
Totally customizable - over a billion possible combinations (I'm guessing)

Photons International (Muyshondt) Ion ... 50 lumens
Another progressive twisty
Recessed split ring
CR2-powered :twothumbs

JiL Lite DirectDrive ... ~15 lumens
Long runtime
Maximally tiny & minimally simple

Delghi Iris... 240 lumens
Elegant design
Beautifully crafted

:thinking: I'm guess I'm finally starting to feel like an "old-timer" around here ... :shrug:
 
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Fireclaw18

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Re: Forget Cheap and Bright; Let's Talk About Old, Dim Expensive Flashlights!

My very first 'true' flashlight and one that still holds a sweet spot in my heart wasn't made by a single person, but it was introduced at a time when few companies even bothered to produce LED flashlights. This was one of the ground-breakers in my mind, and it should be recognized for that. ... It's an Emissive Energy Inova X1 v1. The form-factor will probably be familiar to many. They were recently purchased by NiteIze. The aesthetic has not changed throughout all of that. The v1 was introduced in 2003 and houses a single Nichia 5mm LED (not a GS, those came much later). The new 'Luxeon' power LED's were on the horizon at that time, but aside from a little company called Arc on a little forum called CPF, they were not yet used in mass production. The v1 sported an anti-reflective collimating glass lens, which rumor had it, was produced by a well-known camera lens manufacturer: ... This lens, combined with the 5mm Nichia LED, threw a very distinctive beam: ... The v1 got 8 hours of runtime (to 50%) on a single AA alkaline cell. It's next major revision, the v3 (sporting a Luxeon powerLED and a reflector) got 2 hours. The lumen race had begun. :crackup:

I still have one of those in near perfect condition. Cool little light. Felt very high quality. Unfortunately, the extremely dim output with no spill was pretty useless. It was like carrying a 1xAAA incan maglite solitaire... cool, but not very useful.

Inova came out with a different version that looked almost the same, but had the 5mm LED mounted at the front, with an uncoated aluminum reflector and flat glass lens. Still very dim, but much more functional as a close-in light.
 

gunga

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Re: Forget Cheap and Bright; Let's Talk About Old, Dim Expensive Flashlights!

Hmmm, I've been very fickle with my lights over the years, I've bought and sold everything (even my beloved custom Haiku was sold once), the one that has not been (and never will be) sold is my first "real" light, a Circa 1988 Incan minimag, in cool Navy Blue.

Back then, it was the bomb. The blotchy ugly beam that only worked with one focus point was the best thing going and was compact to boot! It lasted like 2 hours! Amazing, putting out at least 10-15 yellow, sickly lumens.

Then I popped in a Nite-Ize 3LED insert. It was a revelation. The light was so much brighter! (15-20 lumens?) and stayed bright. It was also very floody and blue. I used it, delighted by my new-found light, but wondered why I could barely navigate the woods. Everything looked flat, and I couldn't see much beyond 10 feet. Blue, flood. Oh the young and foolish.

Next I learned about CPF and my first great light, the Fenix L1D... Amazing in comparison. In the meantime the old mini-mag got a few different upgrades: IQ switch, kroll switch, glass lens, SMJ drop-in, terralux drop-in (modded to Seoul LED!). It was all pretty cool.

I finally settled on a custom copper heatsink, Mad Max driver from the Sandwich Shoppe and a nice high-CRI Seoul LED. And that is how my light remains. I may update it with a more modern LED someday, but I rarely use it.

However, I will never sell it. It was my grail light in high school, now it's my ever changing history lesson. Too bad I can't cut it apart like a tree to see all it's incarnations over the years. It would be amusing. I'm sure there have been at least $100 in upgrades over the years for my Minimag, which was a princely $18 in 1988 (I think that is around $36 in 2014 dollars). Not the best value, but a lot of history...
 
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nbp

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Re: Forget Cheap and Bright; Let's Talk About Old, Dim Expensive Flashlights!

Nitecore D10 and EX10, awesome lights in their time, and in our time. I remember DM's evalation of those lights. I have four of the D10's. Not terribly bright, but great engineering.

Bill


I recall being gone from CPF most of one summer when those lights came out and coming back to hear nothing but talk about the EX10 and D10! I was like what the heck are these lights everyone is talking about?! I did have an EX10 for awhile. I think it got sold in the purge to fund my Haiku, but I did always like the no frills UI - quick access to low and high with a fun piston drive ramping system in between. Simple, elegant, functional. Well done!


no SOUL! No HEART! No PASSION!

These words really caught my attention because these are exactly what I felt with all those new lights that are hitting us in troves from Asia. Not that they are incompetent. On the contrary, some are pretty well made with all the bells and whistles, but they just lacked a soul, a heart, and passion.

My all time favorite is still very much my Haiku and since you have written a "love letter" about it I shall not dive into why I love it so much.

Thanks Nick for such a thread. We need something like this to spice up CPF and you did it again with this thread! :twothumbs

Indeed. As I noted with my SC52 example, it is quite a competent light as you mentioned, but I can't get that excited about it. Soul is something it just doesn't have.

When it comes to the Haiku, you'll get no argument from me! Passion is the very foundation of everything Don does and makes, and you can feel it in his lights. That is one of the big reasons I love my McGizmos - when I pick them up, I know he thought long and hard about what this light was supposed to do, and how best to accomplish that, and then made the absolute finest version he could of what he imagined in his mind.

I hope the thread gains traction, I think it is already getting fun!!

Oldest light I own is probably a Fenix TK20 from c.2008. Probably the most solid 2*AA light ever made, very nice tint and a respectable throw with it's "whopping" 150 lumens.

Edit to add- it was also expensive to me!

The TK20 is a fantastic light! I wish they still made those to be honest. I got one on the MP years ago for my grandparents and they just loved it. Simple UI, common batteries, easy to hold, grippy, nice throw, one of the earliest production neutral tint lights I can recall, and the things are tough as heck! If they were still in production with maybe a neutral XP-G2 and two modes at 15 and 250 lms I think they'd still sell like mad.


I have 7 Arc LSH-p lights each costing $150. Throw in a couple Arc-4's and 3 or four Arc AA and about a dozen Arc AAA premiums.... oh, and 3 Arc AAA RGB's and I have passion, pride, heart and soul all sewn up... and no I will not part with any of them.

This is what I am talking about!! Arc lights from the real Peter Gransee era ooze with passion - those were good days. I wish I had been here just a little earlier to be a part of the Arc history while things were going well. When I joined in 2007 it was mostly just the AAA left anymore and I always lamented not being able to try the CR123 lights. It's hard to figure out the nomenclature now or I'd try to find one on the MP.

Thanks for starting this thread nbp :)

I think I'll list a few of my favorites (all discontinued), and why I chose them ....
......

:thinking: I'm guess I'm finally starting to feel like an "old-timer" around here ... :shrug:


Thanks Arch and thank you for your contribution. :)


Some great picks in there as well! I kinda wish I had kept my EN Mule - well, I wish I still had all the McGs I had and then sold, but there's only so much money, lol. I liked how light it was. I love Ti as much as the next guy, but the EN Mule I had always seemed a little more discreet in my pocket than my Ti Mule. I dunno if that makes sense...

I like that you mentioned the Ion as well - I had thought about discussing that light too. What a neat little light with such a lovely flood beam and creamy tint! I keep thinking of selling mine as I can't bear to use it and beat it up but then I never quite have the heart. ;)
 

nbp

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Re: Forget Cheap and Bright; Let's Talk About Old, Dim Expensive Flashlights!

However, I will never sell it. It was my grail light in high school, now it's my ever changing history lesson. Too bad I can't cut it apart like a tree to see all it's incarnations over the years. It would be amusing. I'm sure there have been at least $100 in upgrades over the years for my Minimag, which was a princely $18 in 1988 (I think that is around $36 in 2014 dollars). Not the best value, but a lot of history...


Right here, This sums it up so well. All the time you spent poring over options and accessories and parts to make it just perfect, to make it yours, and the effort put into modding it into that ideal little light.... that is soul. Is it blindingly bright and run for 450 hours? Nooo, but who cares? It's still cool and it tells the story of a flashaholic. Awesome. :)
 

scout24

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Re: Forget Cheap and Bright; Let's Talk About Old, Dim Expensive Flashlights!

Gotcha covered. I've spent the last four weeks with only two edc sized lights. One of my E2e twisties with a long clip and an MN03, and a McLux III PD-S that I picked up as-new a while back. All the scuffs on it are mine. :) Collectively these two ooze soul and personality imho. One of PK's finest, most ergonomic designs with a fantastic beam. Low output battery hog by today's standards but you can't have mine. :) The McG PD-S is simplicity and elegance distilled. One man's vision (at the time) of single-cell pocket perfection. Some would argue, and are entitled to do so but good luck convincing the faithful. Perfect beam, adequate output, stone simple ui, and yes, dim and expensive.

I left a bunch of other dim, old, expensive lights behind, and took these two based on cell commonality, twist switches, and wanted an incan and a LED light. Both were to be simple and reliable. They have gotten somewhat equal pocket time, and have both worked as intended. Changed the oil in my Tundra last night with the E2e lighting the way in a dark garage, stayed on the whole hour killing a pair of primaries. PD-S on low has been used for tactical midnight snack runs and walking in dark parking lots on high. I'll keep the old dim expensive ones, thanks. Hey, I've been called more than one of those things too!!! :)
 

BigBluefish

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Re: Forget Cheap and Bright; Let's Talk About Old, Dim Expensive Flashlights!

I have a few long lost (actually sold; almost worse, I deliberately parted with them) expensive and dim (relatively) lights that I didn't realize I appreciated so much until after they had gone, and one that I managed to reacquire. These lights all had some hard to quantify quality that makes me miss them, despite owning quite a few nice, well made, and brighter lights today.

GONE:
Surefire E1e. Ahem, I had two of these, and sold both. D'oh! In retrospect, pretty dumb. Besides, I found out later my wife liked them. Double-dumb. One of these in my pocket after dark would handle 95% of anything I need a light for, I now realize. And would handle it with class.
Surefire E2e: Same as above, almost as cool, with more versatility and longer runtime.
NovaTac 85T. One of the old, good ones. Perfect SSC P4 beam. Yeah, it only did 85 lumens, but outside of tactical applications, that was pretty much enough for my purposes, the lower levels were very useful, the UI was great, and it was smaller than the Ra lights.
NiteCore Defender Infinity Q3 W: Still my favorite AA light. Nice tint. And I had a couple spare switches. What was I thinking????
Ra Clicky 140. GDP, I think. Nice beam, great UI. Just great. In retrospect, I'd rather have this one back.
Ra Clicky Hi CRI: So, I thought the SSC high CRI emitter was a little too dim and a little too yellow. Folks, the grass is NOT always greener. (Certainly not under cool white...)
Ra Twisty Hi CRI: I don't want to talk about it.

Redeemed:
Surefire A2. Yep, the main beam puts out less than 100 lumens, it's a fragile incan bulb, and only runs for like 45 minutes. The LEDs don't offer the smoothest beam. So what. The light is just cool, and if light can have a soul, this one does.

I sold a couple. I realized I had erred. I have bought three more, 1 white (which actually has not-too-blue LEDs and is quite pleasing in use); one Red and one Yellow-Green (the coolest, IMHO). And although I have no conceivable use for them, I want a Blue and a Green.

Desired:
Surefire AZ2: Not the brightest main beam. Not so great runtime. Expensive. But c'mon. Next to the incan A2, this is the coolest thing Surefire has put out. I want one, bad.
 
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orbital

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Re: Forget Cheap and Bright; Let's Talk About Old, Dim Expensive Flashlights!

+

BLUE_LABEL.jpg


High CRI__________^
 
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