Where are the 10000 lumen dropins?

KardoPaska

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Jul 13, 2014
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Hey guys. So why do drop-ins usually max out around 500 lumens? Typically i see Cree XPG2's putting out those high lumens in the dropin market, but there are manufacturers/value added resellers ( VAR's ) like nitecore, fenix, etc. that are using the same LED and claiming 800+ lumens?

I work at a company which does high-volume production and the different channels definitely get different grade parts even though they are the "same" model. The highest sorted parts only go to VAR's, and the lowest sorts are available to the public. Is this what is going on with the LED's used in drop-ins? The best LED chips that can put out 800+ lumens go to places like fenix, nitecore, etc., while the rest come to us as dropins through the likes of malkoff, thrunite, etc?

Where are the 10000 lumen dropins? :twothumbs ...okay so where are the 1000 lumen dropins? :candle:
 

StarHalo

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Malkoff's XM-L drop-in is 720 lumens, and he has made triple drop-ins in the past that pushed roughly 800 if I remember correctly. Elektrolumens has made drop-ins with various multi-emitters from time to time that can nudge the 2000 lumen mark. To punch through the 10K lumen barrier, you'd need something like four MT-G2 emitters, which would generate fantastic amounts of heat and would require at least eight Li-ion cells just to turn on.

To be fair, the hotwire folks broke the 10K mark long ago using incandescent bulbs meant for projectors; Fivemega had some beast with a ridiculously large filament that was rated for 10K+..
 

Cerealand

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VinhNguyen can make you a 1000+ lumens drop-in. Oveready has some 1000+ lumens triples. Heat management is an issue. Malkoff drop-in seems to have the right balance between output, heat management, and runtime. I can run a M61N SHO for hours without any problems.
 

Echo63

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Perth - West Australia
I have a 1000 lumen Oveready/moddoo triple in a 9P
it gets hot pretty quickly - and will chew through a set of AW black 18500s in an hour.

The P60 dropin was originally Incan, and didn't have any heat issues (most went out the front)
it has become a standard, but has issues dumping heat to the host, even with copper tape or other tricks to make the host/dropin interface as tight as possible.

So heat is the main reason you don't see 10klumen dropins battery life is another - the biggest easily available P60 host is a 3 cell size, bored for 18500s.
this gives you 1500mah at 9ish volts which won't give you much of a runtime at all
 

jmpaul320

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the most lumen in a p60 drop in you can get now is either of the mtg2 dropins from vinh which do around 2500 (they drop around 30% in the first minute though due to heat)

theres also options for triple and quad XPL dropins, but I dont see those breaking through anymore than 3000 OTF lumens before heat catches up

when will we see 10,000? I dont know, but led efficiency is slowly improving :) maybe in a few years
 

Richwouldnt

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Apr 17, 2011
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Reno, NV
Due to the heat issue P60 drop-ins are considered obsolete, or at least obsolescent, by those wanting higher output lights. Such high output lights typically are running big heads and reflectors and a minimum of three 18650 batteries. I have a customizes 6 LED SkyRay King that puts out close to 5000 lumens on turn-on but due to heat considerations this drops to 4500 or so in a few seconds and the turbo timer backs it off to the second level in less than a minute. Similar 4000+ Lumens performance from my customized SupFire M6 lights.

Even P60 host makers like Solarforce make much larger than P60 heads for their host battery tubes and switches for going into the 1000+ lumens output range. If you look at some of the Chinese seller web sites you may find stuff that CLAIMS 10,000+ Lumens out but these are greatly exaggerated "Chilumens" claimed outputs and you are lucky to get 25% to 50% of the claimed output in actual use.

There is one BLF advertising commercial light modifier who is experimenting with a HUGE 12 LED Chinese budget light that he is experimentally getting 11,000 Lumens output from. The base model is a light that has a battery tube sized for 32650 batteries and a very heavily finned head. Internally the LED mounting plate is machined directly into the head and is quite thick and massive for best heat dissipation. The base light weighs about 3.5 pounds without batteries. It may not be too practical for daily use but the output will be spectacular if/when he starts offering them for sale. Make a good club too!
 

TEEJ

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Yeah, the limiting factor is that a "drop-in" needs to be able to "Drop-in" to a P60 sized light, and, the flashlight its dropped in to is what needs to be able to handle the output....and can't.

So, 1,000 L drop ins, sure, pop over to Vinh's sub-forum or Overready, etc...and get all you want. 10k L, not so much. (Get ten of the 1k ones?)

:D
 
Last edited:

gravelmonkey

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Aug 13, 2012
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UK
Hey guys. So why do drop-ins usually max out around 500 lumens? Typically i see Cree XPG2's putting out those high lumens in the dropin market, but there are manufacturers/value added resellers ( VAR's ) like nitecore, fenix, etc. that are using the same LED and claiming 800+ lumens?

I work at a company which does high-volume production and the different channels definitely get different grade parts even though they are the "same" model. The highest sorted parts only go to VAR's, and the lowest sorts are available to the public. Is this what is going on with the LED's used in drop-ins? The best LED chips that can put out 800+ lumens go to places like fenix, nitecore, etc., while the rest come to us as dropins through the likes of malkoff, thrunite, etc?

Where are the 10000 lumen dropins? :twothumbs ...okay so where are the 1000 lumen dropins? :candle:

There are different grades of the same type of LED available; during production they are tested and are sorted into bins depending on how much light they can kick out.

I'd even go as far to suggest that us enthusiasts have lights with 'better' LED's in them before the mainstream manufacturers, due to the fast evolution of the chips.

I think what you're comparing is different LED's, the maximum 500 of lumens sounds suspiciously like an XP-G2 based engine whereas you can easily squeeze 800 and up from an XM-L2; brighter does not always mean better. In identical set-ups, the XP-G will 'throw' better whereas the XM-L will be more floody.

'The very brightest' P60 drop-in, as far as I am aware, would be the 2500 lumen monster than Vinh created.
 
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