Battery compatibility question.

Guysakar

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Oct 21, 2012
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Hello everyone,

I am looking into purchasing a mobility scooter, which comes with an SLA battery, but has options for a 7.5 Ah Lithium-Ion ($520) or a 11.25 Ah Lithium-Ion ($755).

Is there a way around this? Can I purchase a non proprietary Li-Ion and just cut the connectors, rewire, etc...?

I am looking at buying two batteries, so any help will be greatly appreciated.
 

inetdog

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Does the upgrade from SLA to lithium include charger modifications you are not able to make? Lithium chemistry is not a simple drop-in replacement unless approved by battery mfgr, as for some motor vehicle cranking batteries.
 

WalkIntoTheLight

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Why bother with expensive lithium ion batteries in a scooter? The scooter is carrying around the weight of the lead-acid battery.
 

thedoc007

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Why bother with expensive lithium ion batteries in a scooter? The scooter is carrying around the weight of the lead-acid battery.

Possibly because lithium-ion is much more energy dense, and can go longer between charges? Lead acid is cheap, but not particularly advanced as battery tech goes.
 

Overclocker

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Hello everyone,

I am looking into purchasing a mobility scooter, which comes with an SLA battery, but has options for a 7.5 Ah Lithium-Ion ($520) or a 11.25 Ah Lithium-Ion ($755).

Is there a way around this? Can I purchase a non proprietary Li-Ion and just cut the connectors, rewire, etc...?

I am looking at buying two batteries, so any help will be greatly appreciated.



you can't just splice together a bunch of lithium-ion cells. they need to be properly designed w/ a BMS (battery management system). it's a circuit board that monitors the voltage of each parallel bank and cuts off the pack if values go outside the safe zone. you won't find this at radio shack

it's not rocket science though and it can be done. i'm actually gonna build a battery pack that uses 104pcs 18650 cells

i recommend you go to Endless Sphere forums
 

WalkIntoTheLight

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Possibly because lithium-ion is much more energy dense, and can go longer between charges? Lead acid is cheap, but not particularly advanced as battery tech goes.

I'd just add an extra lead-acid battery in parallel, if I needed extra juice, or use a larger battery. A car-battery sized AGM battery will give you 80Ah or more of capacity, and can deliver way more power than you'd ever get out of a lithium ion battery. It's heavy and somewhat large, but you're not carrying it around by hand like you would a flashlight battery. And who cares about "advanced", when it's proven it just plain works?
 

Overclocker

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I'd just add an extra lead-acid battery in parallel, if I needed extra juice, or use a larger battery. A car-battery sized AGM battery will give you 80Ah or more of capacity, and can deliver way more power than you'd ever get out of a lithium ion battery. It's heavy and somewhat large, but you're not carrying it around by hand like you would a flashlight battery. And who cares about "advanced", when it's proven it just plain works?


heavy! maybe he needs to go uphill or something :D
 

Guysakar

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I'd just add an extra lead-acid battery in parallel, if I needed extra juice, or use a larger battery. A car-battery sized AGM battery will give you 80Ah or more of capacity, and can deliver way more power than you'd ever get out of a lithium ion battery. It's heavy and somewhat large, but you're not carrying it around by hand like you would a flashlight battery. And who cares about "advanced", when it's proven it just plain works?



Thanks for all of the replies thus far.

So, you are saying like an RV house/deep cycle battery would work? Would I have to build some kind of regulator depending on output of the stock battery?

Thanks again.
 

StorminMatt

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There are good reasons to go Li-Ion rather than lead acid. First of all, remember that most applications that use lead acid batteries use LiFePO4 chemistry when converted to lithium (rather than the LiCo or LiMn chemistries more typical of flashlights). LiFePO4 batteries are EXTREMELY robust compared to lead acid (and other lithium chemistries). They can endure 2000+ charge and discharge cycles - more than lead acid or other lithium ion batteries. And, unlike lead acid, the battery won't die from sulfation if left in a partially charged state. LiFePO4 actually likes a partially discharged state, but (unlike other lithium chemistries) is okay with being fully charged for long periods, too. So LiFePO4 may be a good way to go simply because the battery will last ALOT longer. Finally, one of the very best features of LiFePO4 is its ability to maintain a practically constant voltage throughout discharge - even more so than NiMH. This means that the battery does not tend to run down with use. It remains strong until dead. For all these reasons, I would seriously consider going LiFePO4 rather than lead acid.

As for wiring up a generic LiFePO4 cell rather than getting the proprietary battery, this may be possible. LiFePO4 has very similar charging characteristics to lead acid. The voltages are very similar. And they both use constant current/constant voltage charging. LiFePO4 often does employ a specific battery management system. But this is often employed in the battery itself for retrofit applications (like automotive use). Beware, though. It may not be possible to simply replace the existing lead acid batteries for other reasons. And it would almost certainly void the warranty. You might actually want to pony up for the proprietary batteries.
 
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WalkIntoTheLight

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So, you are saying like an RV house/deep cycle battery would work? Would I have to build some kind of regulator depending on output of the stock battery?

Yes, it should be as simple as dropping in a deep-cycle battery instead of your current one. A deep cycle AGM battery takes the same charger as an automobile flooded lead-acid battery, though I think AGM likes a slightly lower maximum voltage during charging. The difference is pretty small, though, and I've never had an issue charging AGM batteries with a car battery charger. Chances are you're already using a deep-cycle AGM battery in the scooter, because a flooded lead-acid battery isn't designed for that kind of application. So the replacement should be simple. Just buy a bigger battery!

I don't think you'll need any kind of regulator. A bigger battery just gives you more capacity.

I'm assuming you're using a 12 volt battery. If you're using 24v or 36v power, then you probably have 2 or 3 12v batteries in series.

If money is no object, then go with a lithium-ion system. You'll have to replace the charging system too. But if price is a concern, that's why I'd stick with lead-acid.
 
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