What happened to FourSevens?

I remember a period when I was constantly watching to see what 47's was up to... Now it doesn't seem like they have done much with their lineup in a long time... not to mention they were one of first manufacturers to really support the "serious" fanbase with neutral and high CRI offerings. I know they have already stated that neutral/high CRI just doesn't sell well enough to continue offering them... but it seems like it might still be worthwhile just to keep their reputation up within the industry.

For example, I just took a look at their website using their "Light Finder" to confirm my suspicion that they don't offer a Quark that uses an 18650... only the Maelstrom. I know they previously offered an 18650 tube that could be used to make a lego'd 18650 light, but I don't think that's offered anymore. Seriously, no 18650 pocket-sized light?

I still have a Quark AA/14500 Tactical Neutral that's one of my favorite lights around the house, but it seems like an antique compared to the newer lights out there.

Anyone have any insight? Are they doing so well with their current offerings that it doesn't make business sense to change it up? Or are they not doing so well and just trying to get by with what they have?

Have you seen the Regen MMR-X?

I have given up on 47s.
I got 2 green tinted lights from them.
I don't want another.
My Eagletacs, Nitecores, and Thrunites are not greenish.

They definately did give the industry a kick, a few years ago, however they now found out that to stay in business, you need more than fancy lights... you need sales. They will need lots of sales ( = money) to develop new lights, and my guess is that the competition is now very strong, so they're taking it slow, bringing innovations at a slower pace than they used to. Their High-CRI lights cost them dearly (many went at a discount), so they discontinued them... They cannot afford to loose money on those funny side-projects, not unless their main lights sell like crazy. Given the activity of others, that's hard. Fenix, Olight and everyone else is busy as well...

As for the 18650-quarks: yes they were nice (I still love mine), but due to the size that the quark-series has they cannot produce 18650-tubes for them since they'd be too thick. Their solution was a very very thin wall, which was hard (read: expensive) to manufacture, for a low demand. Thus they split it off to the Maelstroms, which are too expensive in my opinion. It's too bad, their quality has been top-notch to me, but as for now, I'm looking at other manufacturers. Still they might return, with new things, and maybe... even a high-CRI Promise to buy 200 and they might do a run.

I tried to find the post but couldn't David has posted explaining how the demand for neutral tint lights is very limited, he also says he's been stuck with neutral stock he can't sell. Hence his unwillingness to manufacture more neutral lights.

Looks like Freeze_XJ beat me to the punch, in the time it took me to compose my post

Norm

Norm said:

I tried to find the post but couldn't David has posted explaining how the demand for neutral tint lights is very limited, he also says he's been stuck with neutral stock he can't sell. Hence his unwillingness to manufacture more neutral lights.

Looks like Freeze_XJ beat me to the punch, in the time it took me to compose my post

Norm

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But how much more does it REALLY cost to stick, say, a neutral XM-L2 in a light than a cool XM-L2? I mean, if Zebralight can sell an SC52w or SC62w for the same price as a cool SC52 or SC62, why can't 47's? And as far as sales, you only need to go to a site like Illumination Supply to see that the neutral offerings of lights by Zebralight and others are the ones that sell. You certainly don't see the cool versions on backorder. But the neutral versions often are. Why? Because people buy them.

StorminMatt said:

Why? Because people buy them.

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They are bought by flasaholics, flashaholics are a very tiny percentage of the total market.

Norm

Norm said:

They are bought by flasaholics, flashaholics are a very tiny percentage of the total market.

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Yes, but since a neutral XML is a direct replacement for a cool-white XML, it really shouldn't cost them much to produce them. The issue is getting stuck with the stock, which appears to be the reason they don't make them. This may be more of a problem with them not marketing them properly, rather than stupid consumers. Other manufacturers seem to be able to offer both cool and neutral white.

While I do like 4sevens lights, I find their current line-up is getting a little stale. Just a few tweaks would be nice. Something like a Quark AA with an XML2 (neutral or warm white of course!), but pump up the driver to make it compete a little better in brightness against other 1xAA lights currently on the market. Oh, and get rid of (or hide) the stupid blinkies.

I still buy a Preon 2 from time to time if they are offered in some sort of non-cool white tint. I was all about 4Sevens a few years back but then they seem to make an effort to move away from the 18650 cell. At the same time, Zebralight seem to embrace the 18650. I have since become an unapologetic Z fan.

I still like FourSevens, I am just not their target audience.

Norm said:

They are bought by flasaholics, flashaholics are a very tiny percentage of the total market.

Norm

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The same goes for companies like 47's in general. Your average Joe doesn't exactly go out and pay $50 for a Preon penlight or $100 for a Maelstrom MMU-X3. Flashoholics do. So 47's needs to market to flashoholics.

Norm said:

I tried to find the post but couldn't David has posted explaining how the demand for neutral tint lights is very limited, he also says he's been stuck with neutral stock he can't sell.

Norm

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Are you talking about this post?http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...ll-available&p=4834591&viewfull=1#post4834591

fnsooner said:

Are you talking about this post?http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...ll-available&p=4834591&viewfull=1#post4834591

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Yes :twothumbs

Norm

Zebralight, just to name one manufacturer, doesn't seem to have any trouble unloading lights with "special" tints... even when they get blasted in places like this for releasing lights with rather terrible tints.

Lumen ratings are so non-objective, why not just make all of the lights with nice neutral tints and stamp the maximum reasonable lumen count on it... then everyone is happier.

I haven't seen their income statements, so I can only assume 47's is doing well with their current business model... but I'm surprised that they are able to sell that many "expensive" lights (according to the masses) without catering to the "niche crowd".

My EDC is a quark 123^2 from the initial pre order. It was a really nice design and 4sevens nailed it out of the gate between form factor, UI, and performance.

One of the main problems is that it is that was what... 5 years ago? That package now puts out a whopping 82 more lumens in a market where you are seeing aa lights get similar lumens.

They showed up and looked radical to some extent. Then they got very conservative it seems. Consistent, honest, and reliable is nice, but it seems to have impeded progress to some extent.

Then you have odd things like claiming the maelstrom regen is one if the most compact 18650 lights on the market at 5.4 inches in length? Seriously? I'm reading that while I have a zebralight sc62w in hand that I just got.

I'd like to see them bring the original quark ethos to something sporting an 18650 rather than just relegating them to the maelstrom line up.

raz-0 said:

One of the main problems is that it is that was what... 5 years ago? That package now puts out a whopping 82 more lumens in a market where you are seeing aa lights get similar lumens.



Then you have odd things like claiming the maelstrom regen is one if the most compact 18650 lights on the market at 5.4 inches in length? Seriously? I'm reading that while I have a zebralight sc62w in hand that I just got.

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82 lumens is about what you get from a good 1xAAA. Even a relatively cheap 1xAA can generally do quite a bit better than 82 lumens.

As for the Maelstrom Regen, I've not seen one. But keep in mind that the SC62w is the 'latest and greatest' that Zebralight has to offer. The Regen has been out considerably longer. Not sure what kind of response 47's is going to have to that (if any).

If you don't have at least 7 threads on the front page, yoooooouuuuur'e NOTHIN!

/kj2

well they still have a few outstanding lights in the lineup:

QP2L-X / QT2L-X really small slim lightweight and really bright 780 lumens. excellent UI and range of outputs (moonlight). sure the SC62 is out now but this physical design is simply more reliable than zebralights. and repairable, when your zebra switch breaks you're basically screwed.




Maelstrom MMU-X3. beats that sky ray king at a fraction of the size



shorter than most tactical lights. you simply can't beat the size

In my experience, they have some horrendous quality control issues. I've bought 3 lights from them in total and all have had minor issues.

1) Quark 2 x 123 Ti XP-G, had PWM flicker on the lower modes when it was specifically advertised not to.
2) Quark 2 x 123 XP-G, had missing moon mode
3) Quark Mini 123 XP-G s2, had some glue over the emitter (sent this one back)

Maybe I was just extremely unlucky, but I'm not buying anything from 4sevens again.

monkeyboy said:

In my experience, they have some horrendous quality control issues. I've bought 3 lights from them in total and all have had minor issues.

1) Quark 2 x 123 Ti XP-G, had PWM flicker on the lower modes when it was specifically advertised not to.
2) Quark 2 x 123 XP-G, had missing moon mode
3) Quark Mini 123 XP-G s2, had some glue over the emitter (sent this one back)

Maybe I was just extremely unlucky, but I'm not buying anything from 4sevens again.

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Their lights are Made In The China.

So please don't blame the company for the QC issues. They cannot control it because they are US-company.

But it's up to them to pick the production company. They put their name on the lights - people may buy it for that name and what it entails. You can't possibly suggest that we can't judge a flashlight company on the quality of its flashlights because they are produced by a contractor... what else can you judge them on?