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Thread: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

  1. #1261

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    When NiMH Break_in (C>D>C) is finished, LCD reports charged capacity instead of discharged capacity. I've added it to de list of things.

  2. #1262

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Observed an interesting phenomena while testing my 6-year old AW IMR 16340 cells.

    They were working acceptably in my high-current lights and accumulated around 50 cycles. Most powerful light drains about 2.5A.

    So I decided to perform a discharge test with RC3K simulating similar conditions. Created a program to discharge with maximum current of 2.0A to 2.80V.

    Half of the cells demonstrated horrible performance: program finished in less than a minute showing capacity under 50mAh.

    Turns out these aged cells can not sustain a load of 2.0A longer than approximately two minutes and voltage drops too quickly for the meaningful capacity measurement.

    OK. I set D.REDUCE parameter to 0.10A telling RC3K to start reducing current once target voltage of 2.80V is reached and stop discharge at 0.10A.

    Now this happens. Charger does begin reducing current at 2.80V. But it does it much slower (at a rate of about 10 to 20 mA per second) than voltage of a weak battery drops. In an extreme case the voltage dropped to 0.54V before current reduction caught up with the cell performance!



    Not sure whether such behavior is a bug or a feature of the charger.

    Interestingly, subsequent few cycles restore cell performance allowing to hold voltage much better in similar discharge test. Here are two more voltage diagrams of beginning stages of discharges of the same cell:
    First 4 min of discharge 2 -- voltage drop to 2.09V;
    First 4 min of discharge 3 -- voltage drop to 2.46V.

  3. #1263

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrey View Post
    Not sure whether such behavior is a bug or a feature of the charger.
    Interesting. I tested D.REDUCE option on 18650 for 3.80v target (storage mode), coming from above (4.1v). I observed voltage, perfect graph. Result: 3.800V on my multimeter offline.
    You're testing a small cell. At high amps. And down to very low voltage cut-off. These are red bull conditions for a small cell. You're not beyond the battery operating range but you're at the extremities of the battery.

    Try the same test with a nice 18650. 2A discharge, 0.1A d.reduce, 2.80V target. I am sure you will not experience the same anomaly in the graph.

    If a charger performs perfectly on battery1 (18650) and performs unexpectedly on battery2 (16340) for the identical test, then what do we conclude from the situation? More to blame the charger, the battery2, or the test parameters? I'll blame the test parameters and the battery2. Not the charger.
    Last edited by kreisl; 12-19-2015 at 04:02 AM.

  4. #1264
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    If a charger performs perfectly on battery1 (18650) and performs unexpectedly on battery2 (16340) for the identical test. When what do we conclude from it?
    That the charger has bad support for battery2
    My website with battery and charger information: lygte-info.
    More than 1000 reviews of batteries, charges and other stuff.
    Compare 18650 LiIon batteries or smaller (RCR123, 16340, 14500, 10450) LiIon batteries.

  5. #1265

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    Try the same test with a 18650. 2A discharge, 0.1A d.reduce, 3.80V target. I am sure you will not experience the same anomaly.
    That is correct. I get a perfect graph showing voltage at or above 2.80V with healthy 16340s or larger cells.


    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    If a charger performs perfectly on battery1 (18650) and performs unexpectedly on battery2 (16340) for the identical test. When what do we conclude from it?
    The charger performance is explainable.
    Say we increase rate of the current reduction. Obviously, there still always be a battery so bad, that its voltage will be dropping faster than charger adjusts the discharge current.


    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    I'll blame the test parameters and the battery2. Not the charger.
    Of course. Charger executes a program as directed by its parameters and we observe the process in accordance with laws of physics and performance of the battery involved.

    In most of the cases, however, charger tries to stay safe. For example, by not allowing setting too low of a target discharge voltage.
    Is it safe to let cell voltage drop to such extreme low values during discharge with high current?

  6. #1266
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Opening the burnt power supply. In the last picture show traces of thermal effects inside the power supply.


    PS: Kreisl, please look at this POST
    Last edited by aekvulture; 12-19-2015 at 05:18 AM.

  7. #1267

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by aekvulture View Post
    Hi there. I found a small glitch.. The fan in the AUTO mode does not work properly. When the system temperature reaches 52C° dramatically increases the fan speed, temperature plummets to 51C°, the fan turns sharply resets the temperature rises again to 52C° ... and so on. As a result, I'm listening to the constant howling fans, more->less->more->less, and this is fast changes. As if someone indulges with the accelerator pedal in a car.
    Need to add hysteresis in the logic of the fan.
    I haven't tested AUTO fan yet. The hysteresis for manual setting is afaik 3°C, for example set to "50°C" will result in 47C=off, 48C=off, 49C=off, 50C=>on, 50C=on, temperature slowly declines, 49C=on, 48C=on, 47C=>off. On prototypes the hysteresis was 5°C, which resulted in a longer 'fan on'-time (when it was on) and possibly the 45C were not reached so the fan would stay on until nearing the end of the process. 3°C seems fine with me, it means that the fan will turn off earlier, because it is not needed anymore.

    I have listed your feedback re the AUTO fan mode for them to reconsider, thanks!
    Last edited by kreisl; 12-19-2015 at 06:01 AM.

  8. #1268
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    I've heard, current version of PC software is unable to connect to the charger via Bluetooth. Probably, that issue should be fixed ASAP...

  9. #1269
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Yesterday tested 2 NiMH in Cycle mode. 2 cycles D>C. When the program ended, the display shows last charge capacity instead discharge. When using 1 cycle then it is logical to show the charging capacity, because battery could not be fully charged. However, with two cycles (or more) in a row it would be logical to display the last discharged capacity. Or am I wrong?

  10. #1270

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by aekvulture View Post
    Opening the burnt power supply. In the last picture show traces of thermal effects inside the power supply.


    PS: Kreisl, please look at this POST
    Holy smoke !!!! , (literally)

  11. #1271

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by aekvulture View Post
    Yesterday tested 2 NiMH in Cycle mode. 2 cycles D>C. When the program ended, the display shows last charge capacity instead discharge. When using 1 cycle then it is logical to show the charging capacity, because battery could not be fully charged. However, with two cycles (or more) in a row it would be logical to display the last discharged capacity. Or am I wrong?
    I haven't tested "D>C" Cycle mode yet. My favorite Cycle mode is "C>D", and in this mode all discharged capacities are available when the program has finished: one needs to enter SOV, by clicking on the green SNB.

    But yes you are right. Any Cycle mode should make all (fully completed) discharged capacities available in SOV. Not in TOV!
    Last edited by kreisl; 12-19-2015 at 06:25 AM.

  12. #1272

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrey View Post
    Are you getting a replacement from SkyRC/dealer or buying another one?
    I ordered another. Still waiting on a reply from HKE.

  13. #1273

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Anybody else have the loud grumbling fan at startup?

    I started a slot 1 and 4 discharge of a couple 4.35v LiIons and heard a rather loud grumbling chainsaw noise from the MC3000 about 5 minutes in. It was the fan attempting to startup and it went on for about 10-15 seconds.

    I had the fan set to 45degrees C.

    I captured about 5 seconds of the noise by video but it was obvious that it was the fan trying to spin up.

    Anybody else hear this yet?
    Started Collecting 10-9-15: VN54 Lights: Noctigon M43vn Goldilocks, ThruNite TN36UTvn XHP70 Shaved Dome, EagleTac M25C2vnT, SkyLumen SL2vn XPL V6 PDT / EagleTac: M30C2 XP-L HI V3, M30C2C Nichia 219B, M25C2 XM-L2 U2, P25LC2 / Fenix: E25UE, PD35 / Olight: S1 Baton / NiteCore: EC4S, EC11, TM06 / ThorFire: VG10

  14. #1274

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    I have received my charger safely from GB. I would really appreciate a bit of user input as I am struggling a little I must admit.

    What I need it to do for me is the following.

    1. Discharge and then charge Nicd and NiMh cells.
    2. Charge my lithium rechargeable cells at the charge rate I select.
    3. Discharge and then recharge lithium cells so I can see if the capacity of the cells match. This is for lights that use two in series.

    What mode do I need for these three modes - dummy or simple?
    So far I have only been advised to 'check voltage' but it is hard to get past that.

    Thank you for any help.

  15. #1275

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Did anybody manage to read the entire manual?
    Helpful info or too much engrish tl;dr? ��
    ~ bitterness about poor quality remains long after sweetness of low price is forgotten ~

  16. #1276
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    I haven't tested "D>C" Cycle mode yet. My favorite Cycle mode is "C>D", and in this mode all discharged capacities are available when the program has finished: one needs to enter SOV, by clicking on the green SNB.

    But yes you are right. Any Cycle mode should make all (fully completed) discharged capacities available in SOV. Not in TOV!
    I am speaking about TOV. In SOV it's alternate all discharged cycles and last charged capacity.

  17. #1277

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by aekvulture View Post
    Opening the burnt power supply. In the last picture show traces of thermal effects inside the power supply.
    Thanks for the pics. Can you explain how the power supply became burnt?

  18. #1278

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    Did anybody manage to read the entire manual?
    Helpful info or too much engrish tl;dr? ��
    I did read the entire manual. Understanding all of it is a different matter

  19. #1279

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    Did anybody manage to read the entire manual?
    Helpful info or too much engrish tl;dr? ��
    As a safety engineer I have to assess instructions as part of my job and I was pleased to see the safety precautions. They are very thorough. My only comment would be about page 4, the selection about dummy or simple modes. The difference between them is not explained apart from dummy mode support of two chemistries only. A table showing what parameters are available or adjustable in each of the three modes may be a useful addition.

  20. #1280
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    Did anybody manage to read the entire manual?
    Helpful info or too much engrish tl;dr? 😜
    I have the paginated manual on my Mac and also printed a full letter size paginated manual I put in a binder. It really helps to have the MC3000 to use when you refer to the manual. I now have both of my MC3000s and have both with the same programs installed. I have charged Eneloops, NiMH, and LiIon cells, and Refresed NiMH and LiIon cells. I had my 80th birthday on Dec 13, so the two MC3000 are a nice birthday present. I wrote a one page Quick Start Manual for myself that makes things very easy.

  21. #1281

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Today was the first time I used the MC3000 to charge my Keeppower 3400mAh 18650 batteries.

    The charging would terminate at 4.20V, but I noticed after a short period of rest the voltage settled down at 4.17V. Is this normal? Or should the voltage reading remain at 4.20V?

  22. #1282

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by aekvulture View Post
    I am speaking about TOV. In SOV it's alternate all discharged cycles and last charged capacity.
    oic
    then it's correct like that. imo
    tov shows capacity of last charge transfer routine,
    and sov would show this and the other discharged capacities.

  23. #1283
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Thanks for the pics. Can you explain how the power supply became burnt?
    When I was charged 4 NiMH with current 1A power supply is strongly warmed up, and began to deform the plastic. Then I put it on the charging 4 Li-ion with currents of 1.5A, 30 minutes after that the charger is turned off and the power supply no signs of life. It seems that it was defective, as the new power unit under the same load is heated slightly.

  24. #1284

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by JB
    charging would terminate at 4.20V, but I noticed after a short period of rest the voltage settled down at 4.17V. Is this normal? Or should the voltage reading remain at 4.20V?
    sounds normal. if you prefer more stable end voltage, you could lower the charge termination current.

    the lowest is Zero hehehe, see TERMINATION explanation in the manual ��
    Last edited by kreisl; 12-19-2015 at 09:42 AM.
    ~ bitterness about poor quality remains long after sweetness of low price is forgotten ~

  25. #1285

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Wow. This charger is insane. Here i thought battery chargers are good enough already lol. Been looking for a charger that charges all chemistries, but with the advancement of analyzing/refresh, backlit display. When is this out? Amazon does not appear to have this charger in stock.

  26. #1286
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by MarioJP View Post
    Wow. This charger is insane. Here i thought battery chargers are good enough already lol. Been looking for a charger that charges all chemistries, but with the advancement of analyzing/refresh, backlit display. When is this out? Amazon does not appear to have this charger in stock.
    It is already out, but only two shops got stock from the initial batch.
    My website with battery and charger information: lygte-info.
    More than 1000 reviews of batteries, charges and other stuff.
    Compare 18650 LiIon batteries or smaller (RCR123, 16340, 14500, 10450) LiIon batteries.

  27. #1287
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    I have some strange readings on "Batt IR" parameter... I think its not normal. On one of the batteries was figure was 7232 m​​
    Ω.
    Last edited by aekvulture; 12-19-2015 at 01:19 PM.

  28. #1288
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by aekvulture View Post
    I have some strange readings on "Batt IR" parameter... I think its not normal. On one of the batteries was figure was 7232 m
    Try removing the battery and putting it in again, then start the charger working, this will do another ohm measurement.
    My website with battery and charger information: lygte-info.
    More than 1000 reviews of batteries, charges and other stuff.
    Compare 18650 LiIon batteries or smaller (RCR123, 16340, 14500, 10450) LiIon batteries.

  29. #1289

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by dssguy1 View Post
    Anybody else have the loud grumbling fan at startup?

    I started a slot 1 and 4 discharge of a couple 4.35v LiIons and heard a rather loud grumbling chainsaw noise from the MC3000 about 5 minutes in. It was the fan attempting to startup and it went on for about 10-15 seconds.

    I had the fan set to 45degrees C.

    I captured about 5 seconds of the noise by video but it was obvious that it was the fan trying to spin up.

    Anybody else hear this yet?
    Nobody else has this issue or has any concern about this issue? I know we are all worried about .01mv accuracy but things like cooling fans acting up in 2 days of light use are concerning also.
    Started Collecting 10-9-15: VN54 Lights: Noctigon M43vn Goldilocks, ThruNite TN36UTvn XHP70 Shaved Dome, EagleTac M25C2vnT, SkyLumen SL2vn XPL V6 PDT / EagleTac: M30C2 XP-L HI V3, M30C2C Nichia 219B, M25C2 XM-L2 U2, P25LC2 / Fenix: E25UE, PD35 / Olight: S1 Baton / NiteCore: EC4S, EC11, TM06 / ThorFire: VG10

  30. #1290

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by billcushman View Post
    I just noticed that page 40 of the MC3000 Manual is full of Conformity Statements that it meets all requirements of the CE regulatory directive. I hope this helps. You don't need the Customs problem spoiling your enjoyment of the MC3000.
    Yes, I hope this persuades the specialist viewing the charger on monday. I folded the manual to this side being at the front and put it directly on the charger, so it's the first thing to see upon opening the package. Hope this will help...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zanders View Post
    There is some small vent in the top it looks like. I will try to discharge 4x18650 tonight and see what happens and how hot it will be. Time to mod maybe :-)
    I΄m happy with it so far and the price wasen΄t so high so no problem.

    Edit: It took 20min or so before the cut down started on the two first slots and the sys. temp where 84C. After 80min the voltage where 3,60 and it started to load 1amp on all slots again, almost 15w.
    Thanks for that test. Could you be bothered repeating it with the downwards bottom vents at the sides closed shut with duct or scotch tape? This way the heatsink should experience increased air flow. A lower temperature in similar conditions would be proof of my theory that the downwards-facing vents work the opposite as intended.
    This message was morsed into the open end of a fiber-optic cable with a flashlight.

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