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Thread: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

  1. #3841
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by radellaf View Post
    [...] It's not always an "error" to terminate on capacity, time, or temperature. Without direct battery contact, I'd probably call temperature cutoff an error, though. [...]
    Most chargers at the consumer level do not provide any way to specify that a termination condition is normal vs. abnormal. Capacity can be either, e.g. if you want to charge to a specific capacity then it is a normal termination condition, but if you wish to use capacity as a failsafe termination condition to prevent overcharging then it is an abnormal termination condition.

    And one might desire even further control, e.g. if any cell is overcharged or overtemperature then it would be a good idea to terminate functions on all other slots to reduce thermal load on the cell (to minimize the chance of thermal runaway).

    Ideally the user could have fine-grained control over all these parameters, and write scripts to precisely specify the termination conditions and desired actions. This level of control is probably not too far away now that computer control is appearing. Indeed, we are probably not far away from the day where we will have an open-source charger - which would offer all that and much more.

  2. #3842

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    Most chargers at the consumer level do not provide any way to specify that a termination condition is normal vs. abnormal. Capacity can be either, e.g. ...charge to a specific capacity ...(or)... use capacity as a failsafe termination condition.
    ...Ideally the user could have fine-grained control over all these parameters
    I agree, though I don't think it's a "slippery slope" from asking for CAPACITY (or time for NiMH) termination, in CYCLE mode, to be normal enough to let the cycles continue. Temperature, in this sort of charger without direct contact, can only be a safety net.

    A cycle run should only quit if there's a real problem. Hitting a capacity limit is not severe. IMHO.

    That's debatable, I'll admit.

    What I'd say isn't debatable, and I seriously suggest as a significant improvement to be added, is a "real" cycle data display like the BC6DX-II offers.
    Flipping numbers on the same status line in SOV is alright, does the job for discharge values only. Much better would be a table display with charge and discharge numbers for at least the most recent few cycles. Here's the Bantam display:



    The past data is displayed, and the current cycle stage number is updated in real time. The BC6DX-II has exactly the same 128x64 pixel display so it would certainly fit. This helps with CAPACITY or TIME terminations being normal as well. If all my Charge values are "300mAH" exactly, then I know they were terminating on one of those vs a lower current limit or -dV full-charge determination.

    Also I'd say a big problem for CYCLE mode is that you lose your data, which may have taken days to acquire, too easily. The Bantam has a separate mode for data review after a run ends. But, however it's done, I'd say the CYCLE data results from the last run should be viewable in SOV until a new program is started on that slot. Given how easy it is to accidentally hit STOP and abort a whole run, being able to retrieve accumulated data is especially important.

    I'd also argue that if a program is paused with the app or "finished" with the stop button, it should be possible to UNDO that by resuming the program where it left off. If I'm halfway through charging and hit stop, I have to clear all my data and re-run the program. I'd like to be able to restart it with the accumulated mAH and other data starting where they were rather than reset to zero. This could be only available in a finished slot, not if the slot returned to "ready" mode.

    Forgive me if I'm being presumptuous. I know I'm not the boss, or putting in the time to code, or having to allocate funds. I am, however, really excited about the charger as is, and enthusiastic about the fact that there's at least the possibility it could gain all the best features of other, similar, advanced chargers. Just being enthusiastic, not trying to demand anything.
    Last edited by radellaf; 10-03-2016 at 02:49 PM.

  3. #3843

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Hi radellaf, wow that's some serious input there, appreciated thanks!
    I've listed it without k-number and i'll have to give it some more thought before the maker can etc.

    In any case it is very good to have such kind of input and feedback from the owners who already make serious use of this 1st-of-a-kind product and want to get even more serious, maybe even professional with it, cheers!

  4. #3844
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by radellaf View Post
    Long time delay on replying but here goes. Just got the MC3000 and played around enough to get it working with the mobile app. Reading the manual now.
    So you're an experienced C9000 user that's important. I'm glad you bought the charger because you are giving it a great workout. I really want to buy this charger, but I need the kinks worked out of it first, spent too much time being an early adopter and for this I just need it to work. I'm hoping it will be a Tesla one day, but it has a ways to go yet. The good thing is it can get most of the way there with only software changes. At least they are both working with 18650 cells

    Quote Originally Posted by radellaf View Post
    Why _wouldn't_ I want a remote display on any charger? The C9000 is 10 ft away behind me on a shelf, and of course I'd like to be able to look at the iPad next to my computer and see the battery status.
    That's a pretty good reason, and may be within the usability of the software. You are within range. I had problem though on earlier models where if I left range because I was watching the charger on the phone it was a pain to get the monitoring going again when I came back into range. Poor software can quickly kill a good idea. Based on their software in the past I suspect it will take them a while to get it right.

    Great that you are using it on the iPad/iOS as that is what I would like to use, so hopefully it will inspire them to improve that app and make it iPAD compatible. Since it seems picky on screen resolution maybe it works different on the A2 and the Pro than the other models? Which iPad are you using?


    Quote Originally Posted by radellaf View Post
    ... it is by no possible means I can see "simpler" than the C9000.
    Well I think it depends on what "it" is... the charger or the operation. I was thinking, and still content, that if you can get a program set up that you will use often, then it will be simpler to operate as you just select the program and in theory with all the other high tech software, once it all works, you'll get beautiful detailed data on the results. So to me that's simpler than what you would have to do on the C9000 to get the same stuff.

    DEX sounds amazing... this is what I'm talking about, software that really works for real activities, not just pretty screen shots.

    Anyway no point in responding to much else since you have the charger and are putting it around the track. It might have to spend some time in the shop, but not so much that you won't be able to enjoy it.

    Thanks for the great reports as you kick the tires, and wind up the engine!

  5. #3845

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardBattery View Post
    I really want to buy this charger, but I need the kinks worked out of it first, spent too much time being an early adopter and for this I just need it to work.
    i am not sure what you are referring to, maybe you can tell us which things are bothering you in your experience.

    from my part there are no further notable changes or improvements for this charger planned because the hardware is final since the June production and i have approved of it, its quality. there will be a FW1.12 update later this year, hopefully soon, to match the upcoming DEX 3.2.8 update, you've seen my animated GIF demo'ing DEX 3.2.8 beta in conjunction with FW1.12 beta.

    PCLS will also get a matching update but DEX has already surpassed the functionality of PCLS.

    i'm testing the bluetooth app V3.0 under Marshmallow right now. everything good.

    and I am accepting that the recommended OS for updating the FW is WinXP SP3. it is only for the update process. you don't need to use WinXP SP3 every time you use the charger. it is only for the updating, 1min of your time, say once per year. and there are enough successful reports with other OS (Win7, Win8.x, Win10).
    Last edited by kreisl; 10-03-2016 at 07:21 PM.

  6. #3846

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    I'm having a lot of fun with this charger. It was so fun last night being able to check how my "babies" were charging while in bed listening to podcasts, and with the same device.

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardBattery View Post
    I really want to buy this charger, but I need the kinks worked out of it first
    There are a few bugs, or at least un-explained ways you have to deal with the thing, but it does work. It seems like if you get a current one, the hardware issues are probably fixed. What do you want to do with it that the minor issues would affect?

    I'm most miffed that Stopping a slot wipes all the data. I want to be able to read the last operation's results up until I actually start a new run on that slot. Can't really see how they'd fit that in, though. The Bantam has a separate "go get the last run's data" mode.

    The biggest frustration has been how to start, finish, or stop things on one slot without disturbing what's going on with the others. It can be done, but it's a non-intuitive combination of clicks and long-presses of SNB, Stop, and Enter in TOV, SOV, DDV, and SPV modes. That frustration has driven me to keep using the iOS app. Which is fine. I'd almost rather they polish the app than the front panel if I had to pick.

    In the app I have 4 or 5 program "templates" there that I can modify and run. What's nicer about the app than the charger, is I can _review_ all my program settings while the program runs. You can't do that on the charger if all four slots are busy. And, SOV doesn't show most of the parameters I want to check.

    Well I think it depends on what "it" is... the charger or the operation. ...if you can get a program set up that you will use often, then it will be simpler to operate.
    By "simpler" I'd generally mean but that I could explain to a newbie how to use it in less time.

    The C9000 might require more clicks, but if I want to discharge 4 cells at 100mA, it's clear what to do.
    The MC3000 could be simpler if you always use the same charge and discharge rates. If you want to frequently pick different charge or discharge currents then it's more complicated. I'm finding the only reasonable way for me to use it is what they don't recommend: "template operation". Program 01 is NiMH, 02 is LiIon, and I modify currents or voltages each time and then run the modified program. Kind of like the C9000.

    Why template operation? Because there are more settings I want to keep (like Cut Time = OFF) than I want to change, and I want to see all the settings before I press GO.

    I don't trust it otherwise. For example, I modified 01 to be a NiMH .20A discharge for alkalines and did a Save to [30]. Later I wanted to test a second alkaline and am glad I looked at [30] before running it. Discharge had changed to Charge for no reason. Glad I checked. I'm sure I'll use more programs and write a list as time goes on, but it's not a comfortable way of working.

    On the MC3000 I'm finding navigating around it quite confusing and have stopped things I want to keep running, failed to have modifications to settings saved any number of times, and had to guess or experiment with things not spelled out in the manual. I'd like to be able to say specifically what but let me work on that. Coming to mind: the purpose of "Info View" is vague, for one, and comments in the manual about it showing "helpful or not so helpful snippets" might make me laugh at first, but the 3rd time I read it I scowl instead.

    The manual defines most things but, as is common, only has a few examples. All definitions, not many actions. If you show me how to program a LiIon charge, that leaves out a lot of info I need for how to program a NiMH multi-cycle run. It's not that I want to do exactly what the examples tell me how to do, but I want to learn how settings interact in ways I can only see with several fully explained scenarios. There are also shortcut combos like "SNB and UP" I see sprinkled around. I'd like a complete list of those in a table somewhere.

    The section on Page 23 under "SAVE TO" gets good, then gets convoluted, and then ends. I'd love to see that expanded enough that just by reading I can feel confident, without lots of experimenting, on how to put any program on any or all slots, given any combination of ready, empty, or running slots.

    You are within range. I had problem though on earlier models where if I left range because I was watching the charger on the phone it was a pain to get the monitoring going again when I came back into range. Poor software can quickly kill a good idea. Based on their software in the past I suspect it will take them a while to get it right. ... Which iPad are you using?
    The iOS app handles going in and out of range pretty darn well and the connection distance is all I could expect.

    I would like to have a BT signal status indicator rather than just watching to see if the time count has stalled, though. It has crashed a couple of times, but one or a few force-quits have connected it to the charger again with everything working as it should. There should be a way to request reconnection without force-quitting, though. Also not sure how it works if you have two chargers.

    On the phone I'm good for maybe 20 ft. It works in the whole den, in the hall, in the upstairs bedroom, but not in the kitchen. That's the BT range of a couple of speakers I've tried, as well. The iPad Mini 2 isn't working out so well because it's to the left of the MacBook and my USB3 hub is right behind it. I'd have to move it or the hub to keep a good connection. Instead of updating every second it might stall for 10 seconds, or lose the connection. Not SkyRC's fault, and shows decent interference tolerance. I bought a $4 Chinese vertical stand for the phone. Should be here in a few months.

    iOS app bug: NiMH charge and discharge have a "Charge Cut Cu"rrent line that presumably does nothing. Also the "Delta V" doesn't allow 0mV like it does on the charger. It has an "OFF" setting, but it's not clear if that means 0dV, or disables peak detection entirely (for time or capacity charging). I'd also say that all the cut-off text is a bug. It's a full size iPhone 6 so a reasonable font size should allow "Charge Cut Current", or an intentional abbreviation, to fit.

    Since it seems picky on screen resolution maybe it works different on the A2 and the Pro than the other models?
    It runs in iPhone "emulation" mode on the iPad, so it doesn't matter which iPad screen size you have. It's going to look just like it would on the iPhone.

    DEX sounds amazing... this is what I'm talking about, software that really works for real activities, not just pretty screen shots.
    Looking forward to trying it.

    Can anyone tell me, for something like running 3 cycles, do I have to have the PC/Mac hooked up to the charger the whole time? Or can I run the cycles, hook up the USB, and retrieve the data? Charge/Discharge data, at least, if not the whole graph.


    It might have to spend some time in the shop, but not so much that you won't be able to enjoy it.
    If I have to send it back to China for weeks, or have Progressive do that for me, then I'll be a bit cross. So far so good, though.
    Last edited by radellaf; 10-04-2016 at 02:21 PM.

  7. #3847

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    undocumented ways you have to deal with the thing
    yes. yes.. . no need to read the manual tbh, one could figure out the UI concept after a short while, i believe. btw i did enjoy the learning by doing method
    and have stopped things I want to keep running,
    fixed in FW1.12, see (k#75).
    failed to have modifications to settings saved any number of times,
    long-pressing the Enter-button is the only way to save a program. the view will be transferred to TOV, consequently, and the IMV will say something like "Saved to blah".
    Discharge had changed to Charge for no reason.
    bug? sorry can't reproduce it. For saving to take effect per slot, one must long-press the Enter-button in SPV of that slot and not just select SAVE TO [30] in the last row of SPV of that slot. with clear instructions of how to reproduce a bug, i'll be happy to swat thanks appreciated.
    is vague
    because to allow for freedom of minor changes in the FW code. the original idea was not to mention IMV at all in the manual nm. the art was to compose a manual which could still be valid thru a number of FW updates and not to overload the text with even more explanatory super-specific details. thanks for your concerns.
    could be simpler if you always use the same charge and discharge rates. If you want to frequently pick different charge or discharge currents then it's more complicated.
    and how do you like the Four Favorite Programs feature so far?
    I'm sure I'll use more programs and write a list as time goes on, but it's not a comfortable way of working.
    DEX 3.2.7 supports the writing of program lists in TXT format. that function got improved and finalized in DEX 3.2.8.
    The iOS app …(…)… intentional abbreviation, to fit.
    I don't know when the bluetooth app gets the next revision. The app is functional fwiw but leaves enough to be desired i'd concur. I asked my neighbor to get over it or not to get held off but just use it as is. There'll be another update soon, hopefully thanks.
    do I have to have the PC/Mac hooked up to the charger the whole time?
    yes like my logging DMM, the PC/Mac must be connected the whole time. the charger sends data to the USB port in real-time 1Hz and does not save the data internally to storage memory like SD card. DEX 3.2.8 has a new feature, it lets the user save the entire DEX session (4 slots, different runs) into 1 single proprietary file format *.OSD. I find it very helpful for all ambitious logging activity with MC3000.

  8. #3848
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardBattery View Post
    .... I really want to buy this charger, but I need the kinks worked out of it first, spent too much time being an early adopter and for this I just need it to work. ....
    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    i am not sure what you are referring to, maybe you can tell us which things are bothering you in your experience.
    Well I don't own this charger, so my experience is with others. I'm just going to be very picky on this one. I have a lot of things on the go and I don't want to spend time debugging software or shipping back anything for repair. I just have to many things I need to be doing so messing with the charger is too low on the list.

    It was shipped with 1.03 more or less you're working on 1.12 and I still see issues and questions being raised that warrant some examination. Not to many people giving detailed usage reports so hard to say how many kinks are still left. Hardware on this one might be finished, but theirs always the chance of the Plus version in the new year like the NC2600 replacing NC2500 from sky, or the various incarnations that resulted in the C3100. I don't want good support, I want a product that does not need support.

    I really want the IOS app to work well and have a lot of functionality, don't hear much about that but enough that it seems to need work. Having used the NC2500 app I know these things take some time to get right. Seems the workflows might need some polishing and the great Program feature more people seem to be saying is not that easy to work with, which is one of the big reasons for me to buy this one. I don't know if the early issues of synchronizing the programs created in the App with those created on the charger has been resolved, can you synchronize the programs entered on the charger with those in the App now? I didn't follow all the revisions between 3 and 12.

    Anyway... just here reading and waiting until I'm ready and/or I feel the product is ready. It works, but not buying this for the basics, in fact I'd like it to do something it does not do as far as I can tell. See next message.

    I'm happy this charger is being developed though. It's just that I can wait.
    Last edited by StandardBattery; 10-04-2016 at 04:52 PM.

  9. #3849
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by radellaf View Post
    ... What do you want to do with it that the minor issues would affect?
    .....
    Well I'm a bit picky these days spend a lot of time fixing stuff that should just be working before it is shipped.... I see some of the issues as not so minor. Since my standard is closer to plug-n-play than work-around, double check, curse, check results, check charger, etc.

    What I really want to use it for I don't believe it can do. Working on a project and I would like this charger to have a 'smarter', or what I might refer to as a more relevant or applicable analysis mode. Maybe you can guess what the basis of that would be. In any case I would need to get the charger and play with it for a while see what I could emulate with software and then see if I wanted to request a change, but at this late in development it might not even be possible.

    In addition I would use it for more standard stuff as well I'm interested in how some of my older batteries have aged and I'd like to start keeping records of each charge/discharge. I'd like to characterize some cells with age data, including storage time before first use, and details like that, but this is a secondary use so I've not just gone and bought the charger.
    Last edited by StandardBattery; 10-04-2016 at 04:54 PM.

  10. #3850

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    i don't understand ****, sorry


  11. #3851
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardBattery View Post
    [...] What I really want to use it for I don't believe it can do. Working on a project and I would like this charger to have a 'smarter', or what I might refer to as a more relevant or applicable analysis mode. Maybe you can guess what the basis of that would be [...]
    I doubt anybody will have a clue based on what little you wrote. What do you mean by an "analysis mode" that is "smarter, more relevant or applicable"?

  12. #3852
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Unfortunately the Apple app does not run at my iPhone 7 (iOS 10.0.2) any more (device not found). At my iPhone 6 under IOS 9.3.5 the app works well.

    Regards Andreas

  13. #3853

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardBattery View Post
    Well I'm a bit picky these days spend a lot of time fixing stuff that should just be working before it is shipped.... I see some of the issues as not so minor. Since my standard is closer to plug-n-play than work-around, double check, curse, check results, check charger, etc.
    I really think it, and the iOS app (haven't tried DEX), are well past those sort of problems. If you want to use this charger, I honestly think you're safe getting one (from Progressive or other new stock), setting up the custom programs, and getting to work (fun?). That you seem to want to use it in a way amenable to setting up programs that, once checked and verified, won't need much changing, I'd say you're set. You will have to read here or do a bit of trial and error if you run into things I have like capacity terminations you didn't want. I haven't seen a bug yet that's not easily worked around. They're minor. But, like any complicated equipment, you will want to do a verificaiton run or two to make sure the program does exactly what you want. Mostly important for cycle runs. After that, no problem. The UI takes some time to get the feel for but it's really pretty good.

    "stopped things I want to keep running" fixed in FW1.12, see (k#75).
    Forgive me, I'm not sure where the "k list" is. If it makes it so a long-press of STOP is required to finish a program in SOV, then yeah, that'd help.

    I'll see if I can reproduce the problem I had with program 30 changing itself. It _did_ get saved to 30, as intended, but then changed to charge. I'll carefully go through the steps again, since that'd be a significant and subtle bug if it really is there.

    ike my logging DMM, the PC/Mac must be connected the whole time. the charger sends data to the USB port in real-time 1Hz and does not save the data internally to storage memory
    Ah well, thanks, good to know. It would be nice, and possible, if the charger could send what little it _does_ have stored if DEX is attached in slot-finished mode. i.e., the charger internally keeps cycle mAh data (D at least) for each cycle and a low resolution voltage graph.

    The iOS app can pull the graph data even if it's connected after a run. Adding cycle data display to the app would be nice too. Easier to give me a Cycle data table in the app than modifying the charger screen displays, I would think, and bonus if the app supported copying that info as text. Letting me copy the graph to the phone clipboard would be cool too, but as is I can do a screenshot.

    Just to show an alternative I prefer, here's how the BC6DX-ii displays "DDV" vs the MC3000. I think the Bantam has a little nicer layout.



    I would like this charger to have a 'smarter', or what I might refer to as a more relevant or applicable analysis mode.
    Specifically what? And does DEX (which I haven't tried) not show anything you could possibly want?

    I will say that, if you can leave a PC connected the whole time, the Vencon UBA 5 offers far superior ability to make multi-step analysis routines and has more options (like constant R) for discharge load simulation. Is that the smarts you need for your project? At that medical device job, the UBA became essential when the Bantam wasn't enough. The MC3000 is in the same class (if half the price) of the Bantam. The UBA is around $1000 depending on options. The software for it is a bit on the "engineer designed" side and has a UI from the Win2K era, with no Mac or Linux support. But if it's what you need, maybe get one of those used? The hardware is a bit on the old side, too, as it still uses linear regulators so a 12V supply and 1.2V cells charge at <10% efficiency. Nothing's perfect.

  14. #3854
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by radellaf View Post
    Forgive me, I'm not sure where the "k list" is. If it makes it so a long-press of STOP is required to finish a program in SOV, then yeah, that'd help.
    From post #6 on the first page of the thread:

    (k#75) long-press SETUP-button, instead of short-press, to finish slot prematurely in SOV and DDV (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)

  15. #3855
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardBattery View Post
    .... I would like this charger to have a 'smarter', or what I might refer to as a more relevant or applicable analysis mode. ....
    Quote Originally Posted by radellaf View Post
    .... the Vencon UBA 5 offers far superior ability to make multi-step analysis routines and has more options (like constant R) for discharge load simulation. Is that the smarts you need for your project? At that medical device job, the UBA became essential when the Bantam wasn't enough. The MC3000 is in the same class (if half the price) of the Bantam. The UBA is around $1000 depending on options. The software for it is a bit on the "engineer designed" side and has a UI from the Win2K era, with no Mac or Linux support. But if it's what you need, maybe get one of those used? The hardware is a bit on the old side, too, as it still uses linear regulators so a 12V supply and 1.2V cells charge at <10% efficiency. Nothing's perfect.
    So very close... with one more guess I'm sure you would get it ... I would like constant power discharge analysis. Since most of the things I'm interested in battery performance for involve battery performance at different power levels. To me this is much more interesting and applicable to everything from power banks, regulated lights, and electric bikes and cars.

  16. #3856

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardBattery View Post
    So very close... with one more guess I'm sure you would get it ...
    And you're making me guess? Slow way to get help... <grin>

    I would like constant power discharge analysis.
    That's another option on the UBA, so if you can afford it and have a PC to dedicate to running it, and the bench space to use it (not that much), and preferably a VV power supply if you'll be charging at low voltages; then, you have your charger. It also will analyze multi-cell packs, which also would be useful for eBikes or other high power applications. I think per-cell monitoring is available, albeit more than two cells would require multiple UBA units.

    I'd be amused to see more discharge modes on the MC3000, and imagine the hardware is capable of it, but I doubt that'd pass the features committee. The fact that discharge mAh is reported for cycle modes, but not the often more relevant mWh, says something about the thinking behind the current features. Again, not sure if DEX would save mWh (and preferably both C and D per cycle). I don't want to keep discussing a different device on this thread, but as you're "picking on" the MC3000 for not doing what the UBA 5 is made to do, I'm glad I brought it up. I'd love a $100 UBA with an iOS app and Mac software, too, believe me.

    ---

    MC3000: 10-40mA charge currents? How?

    I see there's a line " For programs with even lower CC charging currents than 0.05A, you could try to be clever with the TRICKLE C. option." in the manual. I'd love to know what being clever is supposed to mean.

    Ideally, I could set a time cut of 1 minute to get 50mA for 1 min and 10mA thereafter. But, in the designer's wisdom, time or capacity termination is an error, and (I checked) triggering an error prevents trickle charge (in End mode) from being delivered. I really don't like time and capacity being errors.

    The only other way to terminate a NiMh style charge early without an error is voltage. Unfortunately, 1.47V is the arbitrary minimum setting, so that limits my ability to be clever.

    Still, it did work with my test cell. It's an old, abused, rusted, "100mAh" NiCd maybe "N" cell from a $1 solar garden light. It hit 1.47V at 50mA within minutes and is now nicely C/10 charging at 10mA. If I'd set "C. RESTING" (time?) that could probably be a timed 10mA. If the cell is actually more than 30mAh in its abused condition, I'll be surprised.

    FWIW, I'd do the same thing if I wanted to be an idiot and recharge my alkaline AA cells at 10 or 20mA a la the Buddy L.

    Question: Can I really get the RAM code or is that never actually given out? I will happily buy a $5 pack of RAM cells off eBay and send the proof (to where?) if I can get the code. I'm a completionist, so I'd like to have it just so all functionality is unlocked, even if I know I won't get more than a year of use off that pack of RAM cells, and would wrap them in paper towel before putting them in this charger.

    As for the program changing itself from discharge to charge bug, I couldn't reproduce it tonight. I did make a video of me trying. Here it is. If you want some examples of how to program one slot and start and stop it, without disturbing the other slots, it's a good example of that quite apart from the attempt to elicit a problem that might not exist.

    https://youtu.be/6SEcNebu-CM or Dropbox DL the 13MB video file.
    Last edited by radellaf; 10-05-2016 at 09:45 PM.

  17. #3857

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by radellaf View Post
    Question: Can I really get the RAM code or is that never actually given out? I will happily buy a $5 pack of RAM cells off eBay and send the proof (to where?) if I can get the code. I'm a completionist, so I'd like to have it just so all functionality is unlocked, even if I know I won't get more than a year of use off that pack of RAM cells, and would wrap them in paper towel before putting them in this charger.
    The RAM program activation procedure has been described in this thread, actually.

    1) Depress the STOP button to enter GSV (global setup view).
    2) Depress the buttons DOWN, ENTER and SNB (Slot Number Button) 4.
    The "Hide RAM" option can now be configured.

    Quote Originally Posted by radellaf View Post
    The iOS app can pull the graph data even if it's connected after a run.
    The iOS application can retrieve the data used to build the graph, really??? (never used it, as I don't have an iOS device) Can the Android app do it, too? I always wanted to have a way to retrieve and utilize that data and asked kreisl about it here, but got no relevant answer.

  18. #3858

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by radellaf View Post
    Hi radellaf, i will comment on your post later. In this post i wanna comment on your nice video already:
    At 2:37 (and also 3:25 and 3:59), you need to long-press the Enter-button. So far, you only selected #1:[29] but did not save #1:[29].
    At 4:35 (and also 6:31), you finally got around.
    At 8:53, you're expecting intuitively that long-pressing the SNB -when you're operating the top line- would 'Save the selected program to the slot AND start the slot AND return to TOV'. instead, you're surprised that nothing happens. hmm. i think i like your idea very much, and it doesn't seem to clash with the present UI, which is a bonus. I'll have the maker add this harmless 'function' in FW1.12 (beta), no problem see (k#78).

    Your video definitively made me smile ymmd thanks!!

  19. #3859

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Successfully updated to FW 1.11 using MacBook Pro running Windows 7 sp1 Home Prem 64bit. PC Link and DataExplorer 3.2.7 all working. Had to use the 32bit version of DataExplorer, as the 64bit version would not startup.
    This took a while to get the right combination of Mac OS X and Windows.

    • MacBook Pro from 2011
    • Mac OS X 10.11.x - El Capitan.
    • Logitech micro USB > USB cable 1m - Had this laying around the house. From a keyboard or other device that used it for data, not a charger cable.

    The MacBook Pro was one of the last to have optical drive and USB 2. OS X 10.11 was released in 2015. Current version 10.12 which was just released few weeks ago has no easy option to install Windows 7 only Windows 10.

    Used BootCamp assistant in the Utilities folder. Which also required downloading the Windows drivers for the Mac hardware. (Apple Provided)
    BootCamp partitioned my drive and made it bootable for Windows. This version of BootCamp requires that Windows is installed from an optical drive DVD. I initially tried to install with an ISO file copied to a USB thumbdrive and made bootable, but that was not supported in this slightly older version.
    Before applying the firmware update I made sure that the computer was talking to the MC3000 via the PC Link software.

    I've had the MC3000 for a few weeks ordered from GearBest came with FW 1.10 with the new case top, bottom is still the original version, non recessed area where the sticker is. Not sure if GearBest changed the case top but I had to take a peak to make sure. (Sent the first one back to Amazon because it was the old hardware). Just glad to be actually using it instead of worrying which version of the hardware I received.

    After a few very frustrating days of fumbling through the interface, it finally started to make sense. Typical male just thumbed through the manual. If you're a geek or anal about your batteries this could be fun for you.

    My little charger/battery area. Check out my ancient Radio Shack DMM.





  20. #3860
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    try to update firmware
    download
    MC3000_Firmware_Update_V1.11 from http://www.skyrc.com

    sreen of my SKYRC MC3000 became white and nothing happens more than 1 hour

    sreenshot of MC3000_Firmware_Update_V1.11
    http://clip2net.com/s/3D3Ko2e

    tell me what to do ?

  21. #3861

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by ssalb View Post
    GearBest came with FW 1.10 with the new case top, bottom is still the original version, non recessed area where the sticker is.
    Thanks for the shared photos, very nice!!
    In may sky used up all inventory of the old bottom cases with the non-recessed label area. In june they were long gone and the new bottom cases were used during the june production. why/how your unit can have both FW1.10 and the old bottom case is inexplicable to me. has to be an absolute exception, i hope you don't mind.

    Moving on, news item:
    DataExplorer Version 3.2.8 released
    Item posted on Wed 05 Oct 2016 06:23:28 PM UTC.

    3) MC3000
    - fix setting slot programs with capabilities of FW >= 1.12
    - add device XML with TYPE_CONFIG as MC3000-Set to enable single file for all 4 slots, all batteries are a set
    - fix handling with different temperature units and unit switch
    - extend help info to describe difference between MC3000 and MC3000-Set
    full change log here:
    http://savannah.nongnu.org/forum/for...?forum_id=8702
    Whoever plans to work with the 'Backup&Restore' DEX new function seriously, should wait for the FW1.12 as explained in my earlier posts. FW1.12 (or higher) is the perfect match for DEX3.2.8 (or higher, doesn't matter; fwiw i don't expect further notable changes in DEX in future related to MC3000, that's why it doesn't matter).
    Last edited by kreisl; 10-08-2016 at 06:48 AM.

  22. #3862
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    @Kreisl

    I like to test the new "Backup&Restore" feature in DEX 3.2.8 and would be happy to know whether Firmware 1.12 will be available already for download. The new DEX version informs me that not all features of rel. 3.2.8 are working at firmware < 1.12. Is there any beta firmware available ?

    Thanks & viele Grüße

    Andreas

  23. #3863

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    Thanks for the shared photos, very nice!!
    In may sky used up all inventory of the old bottom cases with the non-recessed label area. In june they were long gone and the new bottom cases were used during the june production. why/how your unit can have both FW1.10 and the old bottom case is inexplicable to me. has to be an absolute exception, i hope you don't mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    why/how your unit can have both FW1.10 and the old bottom case is inexplicable to me. has to be an absolute exception, i hope you don't mind.
    No don't mind, as you know the the major change to the case was on the top half with the integrated posts for the spring. The change to the bottom half looked mostly cosmetic or for the assembly workers to more easily apply the sticker, I'm assuming these are assembled by hand.

    Question about input power:
    At one point I started up my computer with the data cable attached to the PC Link usb port on the charger. I had not turned on my power strip that the MC3000 was plugged into. It appears that power from the computer is back feeding into the charger and it attempts to start up, but received error to check input voltage. I then turned on my power strip, figuring that once it was on the error would go away. No, had to turn everything off and disconnect from USB then turn the the main power back on then reconnect the USB cable.

    Is it designed to be also powered by USB. I noticed that the input voltage can be changed in settings. Have not played around with that though.
    Do most just leave their charger plugged in and on all time. I'm my situation I plan on leaving the USB cable connected all the time. So if I just want to use the computer and with the main DC power for the charger off, I see this happening again.


  24. #3864

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by ssalb View Post
    I then turned on my power strip, figuring that once it was on the error would go away. No, had to turn everything off and disconnect from USB then turn the the main power back on then reconnect the USB cable.
    turning everything off is not really necessary. at that point one can simply press some buttons SETUP ENTER something like that and the error would go away. just to be clear, the charger needs power from the power adapter port, the charger cannot be powered by USB port. the error means that the input power of the power adapter port was too low. in order to display this error the charger needs a little current. this little current is taken from the USB port, not more.

    you can leave the USB cable connected to the charger. then, if you want to avoid seeing the error, you'd power the strip first, then boot the PC.

    nice black plastic you got there! compare with the plastic on HKJ's photo

  25. #3865
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by ssalb;4978541[...
    Question about input power:
    At one point I started up my computer with the data cable attached to the PC Link usb port on the charger. I had not turned on my power strip that the MC3000 was plugged into. It appears that power from the computer is back feeding into the charger and it attempts to start up, but received error to check input voltage [...]
    You may have a ground loop problem, like that described below (from here). Charger manufacturers often supply special USB cables with the ground shield removed to avoid these problems.

  26. #3866
    HKJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    You may have a ground loop problem, like that described below (from here). Charger manufacturers often supply special USB cables with the ground shield removed to avoid these problems.
    That is not the case, the microprocessor in the charger is just using power from the usb connection.

    Anyway a ground loop will not power anything (Except extreme low power devices), you need some power.
    My website with battery and charger information: lygte-info.
    More than 1000 reviews of batteries, charges and other stuff.
    Compare 18650 LiIon batteries or smaller (RCR123, 16340, 14500, 10450) LiIon batteries.

  27. #3867
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    Anyway a ground loop will not power anything (Except extreme low power devices), you need some power.
    fyi: "ground loop" is a very overloaded term in English.

  28. #3868
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    fyi: "ground loop" is a very overloaded term in English.
    You did define ground loop very clearly with your images.
    In industrial settings there can be some issues with power and in circuit design there are other issues. Nothing of this has any relevance to the MC3000 charger.
    My website with battery and charger information: lygte-info.
    More than 1000 reviews of batteries, charges and other stuff.
    Compare 18650 LiIon batteries or smaller (RCR123, 16340, 14500, 10450) LiIon batteries.

  29. #3869
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    You did define ground loop very clearly with your images.
    In industrial settings there can be some issues with power and in circuit design there are other issues. Nothing of this has any relevance to the MC3000 charger.
    We'll have to agree to disagree, as usual.

  30. #3870

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    OK, this is a FEATURE REQUEST to provide in future if it is not implemented already. To provide the ability to define trickle time after the charge is finish. For example, I would like to provide trickle time of 4 hours or 5 or 6, etc with the trickle current of .20ma, etc. Reason I ask its cause I charged my amazon high capacity AA battery(2400mH) and odec AA battery (2450 mah) and their capacity values were 2561mahm, 2522mah (for odec) and 2544 mah(for amazon high capacity battery) after the charging finished (all had been through break in cycle twice already). HOwever when I discharged them, their discharge capacity was all around 2000mah for all of them, thats real low! I was dicharging at 0.2c and charging at 0.4c. My BT-C2000 (which I return in favor of this charger) was giving me almost the same discharge capacity as my charge capacity. Only thing I can think of is the tickle chrage it would be applying (I don't remember how long).

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