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Thread: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

  1. #5011
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by DeJaVu View Post
    Or posibly you could have a similar case like this [...]

    Not very helpful without any further explanation since there could be many possible explanations.

  2. #5012

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    Not very helpful without any further explanation since there could be many possible explanations.
    Thats ok, i like to be cryptic at times

  3. #5013

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by DeJaVu View Post
    Or posibly you could have a similar case like this
    I am not sure if the meter is calibrated. 4.4v?? I had a meter that would measure cell voltage higher than what the mc3000 displayed. I opened the meter. Turns out, there is a variable resistor glued so you don't accidentally move it but i think the glue was coming off. Used a small coin and when i turned left and right. The value would change while reading cell voltage. So much for meters being accurate. Since then, i just use the charger to measure battery voltage. And besides, at 4.4v you have "severely overcharged" the cell lol.
    Last edited by MarioJP; 01-07-2018 at 11:24 AM.

  4. #5014
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by DeJaVu View Post
    Thats ok, i like to be cryptic at times
    That's unfortunate since it may lead to false inferences. In case you don't know there can be many sources for such strange readings - from simple things like a low/poor DMM battery or poor calibration, to more complicated things like the DMM being confused by the PWM charging, etc. The Opus has long been in very wide use, so if it had serious overcharging issues there would be many reports of such. But there aren't. Is the internal switch set to LiHV = 4.35V?
    Last edited by Gauss163; 01-07-2018 at 11:32 AM.

  5. #5015

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    So the volts dropping isn't a problem then? It isn't reducing the stored capacity ?

  6. #5016
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    The Opus photo posted by DeJaVu is from this June 2014 BLF thread. There is some speculation there as to the source but it is not clear if it was ever determined.

  7. #5017

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    I am thinking it is the meter and not the charger due to first hand experience with this. Used to have a radio shack multimeter. Whenever the charger says 4.2v multimeter would read 4.3 to almost 4.4v! So is it telling me that the mc3000 is defective?? So apparently some of these meters has a variable resistors that can adjust but are glued shut. In my case the glue was coming off when i took apart the meter. This made the meter useless because this made this adjustable resistor loose. Heck, just by shaking it will cause it to adjust. In any case. I ended up recycling the meter. What a poor design for calibrating lol.

  8. #5018

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Nev View Post
    So the volts dropping isn't a problem then? It isn't reducing the stored capacity ?
    Lower off the charger voltage means lower capacity, but the numbers you mention are negligable and nothing to stress about.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    The Opus photo posted by DeJaVu is from this June 2014 BLF thread. There is some speculation there as to the source but it is not clear if it was ever determined.
    Youre overethinking it way too much, but ill endulge you.
    On the pic the opus is shown overcharging the battery while displaying an acceptable voltage on the screen, as simple as that.His might be doing similar, maybe to a lesser extent.
    Even if the swith was set at 4.35v , the real voltage is still too high, and display doesnt show the correct voltage.
    The multimeter used for measurement is not some generic chinese one but a Megger which costs around 200 euros.
    I hope its clear now.
    Press like and subscribe :P

  9. #5019

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Hopefully by then it boils down to the meter and not the charger lol.

  10. #5020
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by DeJaVu View Post
    Lower off the charger voltage means lower capacity, but the numbers you mention are negligable and nothing to stress about.
    False. One can correlate voltage with capacity only when the cell is at rest - which is far from the case when you first remove it from the charger - esp for cells with high IR (as may be the case in the photo you posted).

    Quote Originally Posted by DeJaVu View Post
    On the pic the opus is shown overcharging the battery while displaying an acceptable voltage on the screen, as simple as that.His.
    Also false. That photo - by itself - doesn't prove anything (esp. when you intentionally post it so cryptically without any explanation). There are many possible explanations for that reading that do not imply overcharging. For example, this could be the older version of the Opus which uses larger PWM spikes and - based what's said on BLF - the protection circuit may be adding up to 100mΩ, so the actual cell voltage may be much lower than what the DMM shows. I see no proof that the Opus is overcharging.
    Last edited by Gauss163; 01-07-2018 at 12:54 PM.

  11. #5021

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Nev View Post
    So the volts dropping isn't a problem then? It isn't reducing the stored capacity ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    False. One can correlate voltage with capacity only when the cell is at rest - which is far from the case when you first remove it from the charger - esp for cells with high IR (as may be the case in the photo you posted).



    Also false. That photo - by itself - doesn't prove anything (esp. when you intentionally post them so cryptically without any explanation). There are many possible explanations for that reading that do not imply overcharging. For example, this could be the older version of the Opus which uses larger PWM spikes and - based what's said on BLF - the protection circuit may be adding up to 100mΩ, so the actual cell voltage may be much lower than what the DMM shows. I see no proof that the Opus is overcharging.
    Yeah, like i said, overthinking too much.
    Were not trying to solve the mistery behind the cause of the problem on the blf thread.
    Picture was posted to suggest that the opus mentioned here might be overcharging the batteries.Even a small amount over 4.2 would result in a similar situation as described here.

  12. #5022
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by DeJaVu View Post
    Yeah, like i said, overthinking too much.
    Facts about battery science are not "overthinking".

    Quote Originally Posted by DeJaVu View Post
    Picture was posted to suggest that the opus mentioned here might be overcharging the batter.
    It was already explained to you 3 years ago on BLF (by HKJ and others) why there may be no overcharging. The way you cryptically posted the photo here (without any link to the prior explanations) and later refused requests to elaborate ("I like to be cryptic") is certainly not fair to those readers who may be seeking a fair analysis of the Opus. If I hadn't dug up that old BLF thread then you may have wrongly scared many readers away from the Opus. Is that really what you desired?

  13. #5023

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    Facts about battery science are not "overthinking".


    It was already explained to you 3 years ago on BLF (by HKJ and others) why there may be no overcharging. The way you cryptically posted the photo here (without any link to the prior explanations) and later refused requests to elaborate ("I like to be cryptic") is certainly not fair to those readers who may be seeking a fair analysis of the Opus. If I hadn't dug up that old BLF thread then you may have wrongly scared many readers away from the Opus. Is that really what you desired?
    Scence like this? "False. One can correlate voltage with capacity only when the cell is at rest - which is far from the case when you first remove it from the charger".Is your science telling me that if i remove a battery straight off the charger at 4.19v from one charger, and then i charge it on anoother charger and i get 4.17v. off the charger they would have the same capacity(talking about peanuts here, but still)? I dont agree with your science then.

    The picture shows a charger overcharging a battery, and if you read the first post youll see that it is stated that the resting voltage of the battery is 4.25v. So i can conclude from that that it is overcharging, and gives legitimacy to the picture in my eyes.
    Is that sciency enough?
    Now you can tell me - but wait, up to 4.25v is alowed for li-ion

    No link was needed as the pic is self explanatory, and it wasnt posted to avoid discussion like this.Just a visual representation of a possible problem on the charger mentioned here.
    Dudes, If anyone gets scared from opus because of that pic, pm me, i can talk with soft voice over skype to calm you down .And yes, you read me like an open book, im part of a secret anti opus society

    BTW, that thread on BLF, not mine. And again, is irrelevant in this discussion

  14. #5024
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by DeJaVu View Post
    Scence like this? "False. One can correlate voltage with capacity only when the cell is at rest - which is far from the case when you first remove it from the charger".Is your science telling me that if i remove a battery straight off the charger at 4.19v from one charger, and then i charge it on anoother charger and i get 4.17v. off the charger they would have the same capacity(talking about peanuts here, but still)? I dont agree with your science then.
    Not only is it possible that they may have been charged to the same capacity, but the cell that measured 4.19V hot-off charger #1 might even be charged to lower capacity than the cell that measured 4.17V hot-off charger #2. Namely, if charger #1 was charging at a much higher current than #2 and the cell is not new (high IR) then the cell's voltage may still be dropping for quite some time after it is hot-off the charger - so much so that its resting voltage ends up lower than #2 - which means it was charged to lower capacity. This is not uncommon to observe in practice (I've seen it many times).

  15. #5025

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Going back on that pic. I just realized that the voltage showing on the meter is the output power from the charger, which in this case makes sense. In order to charge a battery the voltage must be higher than the cell voltage (to overcome the potential differences). After reading that thread. It stated that in order to charge at 1A the voltage must be higher voltage.

    Also, unrelated to my case then lol.

  16. #5026

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    Not only is it possible that they may have been charged to the same capacity, but the cell that measured 4.19V hot-off charger #1 might even be charged to lower capacity than the cell that measured 4.17V hot-off charger #2. Namely, if charger #1 was charging at a much higher current than #2 and the cell is not new (high IR) then the cell's voltage may still be dropping for quite some time after it is hot-off the charger - so much so that its resting voltage ends up lower than #2 - which means it was charged to lower capacity. This is not uncommon to observe in practice (I've seen it many times).
    Thats right, but youre grasping at straws.We can make up scenarios for every posible outcome on a subject like this. Ofcourse it is implied that im talking about same conditions but different chargers. You cant expect me to chew everything for you, dont have that much text. You know science after all, and would know how the comparison would be done.
    In retrospect, the key word on that post that got you triggered, with the pic of the opus you have an strong emotional connection to(and who am i to stand between love like that ) , was "posibly you could have a similar case like this" . You being a native english speaker and me not, you should better understand the meaning of possibly and similar.It doesnt mean definately and same .
    Either way, even though this going back and forth between us tickles my pickle, isnt helping the guy with the problem. So ill be done with it for the day, getting late here and youre keeping me up

    Intent of the pic wasnt to trash the opus, or was it? Well never know
    We are talking about this pic in case someone missed it


    Im calling my secret society OPUS DIE, and im on a crusade. get it? get it? :P
    Last edited by DeJaVu; 01-07-2018 at 03:20 PM.

  17. #5027
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by DeJaVu View Post
    We can make up scenarios for every posible outcome on a subject like this. Ofcourse it is implied that im talking about same conditions but different chargers. You cant expect me to chew everything for you [...]
    It's not a hypothetical scenario. Rather, it is quite common, esp. in basic chargers where the user has no control over the charge termination current (and possibly also the charge current). This means that the user does not have the capability to program the chargers so that both have equal parameters (your "same conditions"). As such, comparison of voltages hot-off the chargers may have little correlation to actual capacity charged. Rather - as I explained above - you have to wait till the cells are at resting voltage, esp. for older unhealthy cells - which take much longer to reach resting voltage.
    Last edited by Gauss163; 01-07-2018 at 03:57 PM.

  18. #5028

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Please check the DMM calibration, you can adjust the value if your DMM have hardware type calibration with a decent voltage reference.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/AD584-4-Cha...0AAOSwB4BaKizp

    https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uO0AA...zp/s-l1600.jpg
    Last edited by hc900; 01-08-2018 at 03:27 AM.

  19. #5029

    Default Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…

    Quote Originally Posted by sbj View Post
    It works the same way as usual:
    After a program is finished: press and hold the SNB button; - the last used program of this slot is flashing; Press this SNB button once, then you are in SPV mode; From now on you can select a new program with the up- down buttons; 1x Enter button; then press down key until last line: "SAVE TO" is displayed; 1x Enter; 1x up:
    "SAVE TO: ALL SLOTS"; hold down Enter; that’s it.
    Thank you so much my friend, this actually works. You saved me a lot of time having to test ~300 cells, great!
    This message was morsed into the open end of a fiber-optic cable with a flashlight.

  20. #5030

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    So any ideas on where to go to be SURE to get the LATEST - two cooling fans, three raised points on positive terminal - VERSION of the MC3000?



    Quote Originally Posted by 7histology View Post
    Interesting.

    I just asked at GB if I could be sure to get the latest ('version3') with 2 cooling fans and was told that this item only has one cooling fan!
    EagTac M25C2 Turbo_VN_XPG2-PDTc version; SureFire UB3T Invictus; Nitecore SRT7; TrustFire X6; LumaPower MVP (3xCree) , Sunwayman V11R; 4Sevens Quark AA Tactical; Nitecore DI (R2, GDP, Q5); LiteFlux LF2XT-R2;

  21. #5031

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Am i pushing the limits on these cells? Trying to find the max charge for my power bank. Terminating at 4.20 is not a full charge and continues to charge in the power bank. Raised the cut off voltage 4.23 at 20ma termination and that seemed to have worked. Now power bank says full immediately. Now i am wondering if i am still within limits. It sits at 4.22 even after 30 minutes of resting.

    Thanks.
    Now power bank says full after 21 seconds. Not like before where it took 30-45 minutes at 4.20 even reducing the termination charge. Something tells me that this bank has a termination voltage of 4.23v instead of 4.20v
    Last edited by MarioJP; 01-09-2018 at 12:28 PM.

  22. #5032
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Hello MarioJP,

    I believe the specification is 4.20 volts plus or minus 0.05 volts. That means that a "full charge" is in the range of 4.15 - 4.25 volts.

    If you are interested in cycle life, you would favor the lower number. If you are interested in maximum run time, you would favor the upper number.

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    Most batteries don't die - they are tortured to near death, then murdered...

  23. #5033
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Hello.

    In my progect I want to use 18650 LTO from: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pc...460.0.0.vCQg1k .
    Does the MC3000 have a profile to support the LTO cells ?

    BR,

  24. #5034

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    No - this is not intended.

  25. #5035
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    It's unfortunate that the MC3000 doesn't let the user program the CC/CV algorithm with arbitrary numbers. It surely has the capability, and could have easily been done with a better UI. This would enable one to handle not only LTO but also anything else that may come along (within limits).

  26. #5036

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    I read somewhere here that the next firmware my support LTO cells. What's so special about these cells anyways?

  27. #5037
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    I have a Chat with SkyRC from 3-4 days ago (sorry for bad English) but tooday is weekend:
    https://cdn1.savepice.ru/uploads/201...e95bb-full.png

  28. #5038
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by MarioJP View Post
    ............What's so special about these cells anyways?
    Working and charging themperatyres, charging time, life cycles...

  29. #5039
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Hello.
    Next good info from LTO ("LOT") cells support:


    Please, check it (my charger in transit only), if possible.
    If You not have LTO cells, tnen my idea:
    2pcs Nixx in Series = ~2.4V (middle LTO Voltage)

    BR,
    Last edited by inetchik; 01-15-2018 at 05:25 AM.

  30. #5040

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Afer reading about LTO. I guess higher voltage does not matter anymore?? 2.4v LTO cells. Isn't that a bit low for a 18650 cell? I get the fast charge and safety aspect of it. Isn't that the reason why we have 3.6/3.7v cells in the first place?. The higher the voltage the better? Its like we going backwards for the sake of fast charge and safety. The capacity better be good at least.
    Last edited by MarioJP; Yesterday at 10:23 AM.

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