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Thread: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

  1. #151

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    2 in series: USB output needs a boost converter, good charging is tricky (as above).
    From ChibiM's links, this is imho an obvious 2xAA-series connection with a boost converter:


    And here another example of an original Japanese power bank with 4xAA. We can see that the Japanese batteries are connected in series:


    and charging the iPhone would not work if 1 battery is removed:



    Q. You confuse me. Why again does it matter if AA power banks have series or parallel battery connection? What's that to do with our skyrc discussion please?
    A. In a parallel connection the cells would have the same voltage. In a series connection the cells should have the same brand, capacity, and voltage.

    Q. Erh, okay?
    A. (…) Argh, i've lost the thread! Sometimes i confuse myself too. So uncool.

    Q. Lemme try then. Could an advanced power bank simultaneously use 4 independent single NiMH batteries to power its 1 USB output?
    A. Nice dream, far off technical sense or practicability. To keep things simple, safe and stupid the sykrc draws energy from 1 slot at a time.
    A. Seen any AA power bank on the present market showcasing 1sXp config?


    Q. Nope, haven't looked. I thought you're doing it for us.
    A. Thanks
    A. Not finding such a thing would back up the power bank limitation that the MC3000 does not support drawing energy from 1 single NiMH battery per slot.

  2. #152

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    Thank you ChibiM!
    Interesting.

    Interesting to learn that there are several such products on the market. A renewed search on amazon came up with 2 hits by the label PortaPow. One of the product pix is rather clear about the connection of the batteries:
    The really cheap 4xAA USB packs, they are normally in series and have nothing in the way voltage limiting, well circuitry even. So fresh alkaline batteries means that often you are giving over 6V right at the start.

  3. #153
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    I could share photo of the PBV (LCD: Power Bank View), if someone's interested in such yawni material
    i would like to see the PCB

  4. #154

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    It would be nice to see more photos of the prototypes that are obviously around. A video maybe?

  5. #155

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardBattery View Post
    Having a USB monitor on the output is a good idea, and it would be good if the updated video showed how the USB output responded during the switch. Look forward to your next take.
    video?

    I did attempt several new takes but the logistic challenges were a pita:
    - the video cam seems to have a recording time limit of 45min (=3.99GB in 720p mode)
    - the video cam battery is good for 1.5-2h, then it is depleted
    - the music piece is 1h long
    - to demo the decreasing current of the CV-phase, the MP3 player battery should not be full nor depleted
    - to demo the automatic switching of slots at 3.2V, the slot battery should not be full nor depleted
    - to demo the use of 3s1p AA, the AA batteries should not be full nor depleted
    - …

    I placed a FT order for the 4 round 3s1p-holders and the USB tester and meanwhile i will be testing powerbanking from 10440's. Maybe such low capacity cells are the key to the solution of the mentioned logistic challenges. I'll replace the video then with an updated better clip.
    Last edited by kreisl; 10-12-2014 at 04:28 PM.

  6. #156

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Hey! Why speed up the video? I was enjoying that piano music.

    Still no idea of a final shipping date?

    Edit>> Thanks for the video!

  7. #157
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Interesting, but i think the video ended before we saw the automatic switching... we just see the blinking battery indicator.

    Having a USB monitor on the output is a good idea, and it would be good if the updated video showed how the USB output responded during the switch. Look forward to your next take. Looks like the charger is also reporting the time for the USB output, is that what I see in the small status area on the right?

  8. #158

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardBattery View Post
    Interesting, but i think the video ended before we saw the automatic switching... we just see the blinking battery indicator. ... Looks like the charger is also reporting the time for the USB output, is that what I see in the small status area on the right?
    Yes in the present FW version the powerbank interface reports voltages with 1 decimal (e.g. "4.2" for 4.298V, i.e. by dropping the higher resolution decimals, not by rounding), elapsed time in mmm:ss (i don't know what happens when the counter has reached 999min59sec ), and output current with 1 decimal (i'll compare the value against a USB tester reading; for more accurate measurements please see HKJ review).

    Afaik the standard wall plug Galaxy Note3 charger charges with 2.0A, that's a typical Samsung specification for the bigger portable devices such as Samsung tablet PCs, Galaxy Note series, and maybe even some notebooks. The MC3000 USB output port says "5V 2.1A" but this may refer to normal operation of the device when it is connected to mains; when it is disconnected from mains, in powerbanking mode, the max output may be less than 2.1A, i dunno.
    Yesterday i recharged a fully depleted Galaxy Note3 (3200mAh 4.35V) with 1 single Samsung ICR18650 in no time, the initial current output showed as "1.3A" (CC-phase) and later on began to decrease slowly down to "0.1A" (CV-phase) and suddenly dropped to "0.0A" (termination current) at which point the power bank shut down. And the Galaxy battery showed as 96% full. Really impressive and much fun! Without a USB tester i cannot confirm that the real output was ~1.3A.

    Oh btw, the video does show the automatic switching of slots. Note how on start-up the device prefers the 18650 battery in slot#3 as primary energy source, which is correct because it has the highest capacity. Then at 01:37 i remove the 18650 battery single-handedly, the voltage in slot#3 falls below the 3.2V-threshold (see the short RED-blinking at 01:50), and the charger automatically switches to slot#4 at 01:54. Also note the voltage drop in slot#4 from 4.2V to 3.9V by the sudden 0.4A load. At 02:33 i reinsert the 18650 battery single-handedly and it does not matter if the cell has 3.6V or 4.2V - the charger continues to draw energy from the active slot (here: slot#4, powered by 3xAA in series) until its voltage crosses the 3.2V-threshold. Therefore it is possible to continuously feed the power bank by manually replacing the unusable batteries in the slots.

    The minimum offline/online voltage of a battery inserted in the power bank slot should be 3.2V, otherwise the power bank won't use it for powering the MC3000 device itself or for charging the connected gadget.

    Anyway, the point of the video was to demonstrate that you can use Eneloops to power the power bank!
    Last edited by kreisl; 10-12-2014 at 04:33 PM.

  9. #159

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    One nice thing the video shows is that the sliders look pretty good. I have difficulty using two hands to insert batteries into my I4 charger (and taking them out could easily find one shooting across the table). To use a single, gloved hand to insert/remove cells is impressive.

  10. #160

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubois View Post
    one shooting across the table
    the shooting across the table could always happen with springy sliders but is maybe less of a concern with the MC3000 sliders than with my Nitcore i4, you are right.

    Not too many have watched the youtube video, i am admitting that it was boring. Maybe this is more interesting, some animated gif?

    Last edited by kreisl; 10-13-2014 at 10:52 AM.

  11. #161

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    were you complimenting my handy skills or the slider quality, in either case thank you kindly for the compliment
    Actually I meant that the slider implementation looked good. It looks as though cells can be loaded and unloaded rather easily - not just one handed, but one handed wearing a gardening glove. I guess your adroitness should get some kudos too.

  12. #162
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    ...
    Not too many have watched the youtube video .... Maybe this is more interesting, some animated gif?
    ....
    The video was OK coild have been edited a bit, and the speed-up could have been even faster.

    The animated gif... you are updating from 1.00 to 1.00 does not make much sense.

  13. #163

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubois View Post
    slider implementation looked good
    During the course of the DC2 development the sliders were changed and improved many times until everybody was really satisfied with them. Much attention to detail was given treating various aspects of the suitable slider. They wanted a strong build, something which didn't look nor feel flimsy or cheap.

    A thick material was the starting point, and by rounding all edges their eventual sharpness got eliminated. Also note the nicely protruding positive contact to suit flat-top cells:



    In a shallow bay it is harder to center a slim battery between the contacts. A deeper flashlight reflector allows of better throw, a deeper battery bay allows of better seating of the inserted battery. While 26650's and C-size batteries are perfectly seated in the bays, 32650's and D-size batteries still fit as mentioned before. I am also going to test the fitment of a round 3xAA-battery holder 3s1p and share photos of such large batteries in the MC3000 tray, stay tuned.



    Note the considerable size of the sliders. Somehow the competition looks frightened



    Sliding action is nice and smooth too, the sliders don't get stuck, no matter how/where you exert pressure on them.

    Awesome construction of sliders, bays and contacts. No room left for further improvement, personally i am very pleased.

  14. #164
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Nice; looks like there was some substantial increase in material, and certainly looks like the cylindrical battery bays were given the proper amount of review if they work for all the sizes stated. We've seen a few problems recently on some chargers with some cells now as they tried to accomodate larger cells. Personally I think they should look at the X design also on the LUC S2, contrary to comments on the forum, my temp probs would seem to indicate the design is interesting and worth further analysis. Slightly different materials or maybe a fan (would love no fan) could maybe even make it better. Of course I'm sure it won't be in the first release.... now when did you say that was... Nov 2014 was it?

  15. #165

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardBattery View Post
    my temp probs would seem to indicate the design is interesting and worth further analysis. Slightly different materials or maybe a fan (would love no fan) could maybe even make it better. Of course I'm sure it won't be in the first release
    I am confused, temp - temporary, temperature, probs - problems, probes? Which design, whose materials, fan, or first release are you talking about, the Efest LUC S2? Yes the X design of LUC S2 is interesting and worth exploring
    The MC3000 does have a smart fan as you know, at the backside of the PCB, near the top; the General Settings menu of the older version firmware offered few options to control the fan behavior, its cooling hysterisis.

    I also noted that users could easily expand the built-in metal heat sink plate. However that's not needed. Especially during charge 4Χ(2.5…3.0A) there are no temperature problems with the MC3000 and the fan usually stays off, depending on the room temperature. Generated heat becomes a factor at high discharge rates, 4Χ-1.0A, so the smart fan would turn on. Don't worry, the topic temperature/thermals/cooling has been fully addressed in the design of the device from the very start, and i don't expect any further changes. I tested charges and discharges at full load, and everything is cool

    The animated GIF was my first attempt to record and share a real-time video at small file size (277KB ), i could do this also for sharing (animated) graphs of the PC link software, possibly with accelerated sections too, if you guys find curves and graphs similar to HKJ's battery/charger reviews interesting. Firmware updating from 1.00 to 1.00 does not make sense, i agree, it was only to show how the present PC link software user interface works for the firmware updating. I'll post a more sensible GIF when the next firmware update becomes accessible online, my pleasure.

    All right, i am off to the supermarket. Need to buy a couple of new D-size batteries. Hehe.
    Last edited by kreisl; 10-14-2014 at 12:35 AM. Reason: release date? price? still unknown, sorri.

  16. #166

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    When will we be able to buy this charger? - and do we have a guesstimated price?
    EagTac M25C2 Turbo_VN_XPG2-PDTc version; SureFire UB3T Invictus; Nitecore SRT7; TrustFire X6; LumaPower MVP (3xCree) , Sunwayman V11R; 4Sevens Quark AA Tactical; Nitecore DI (R2, GDP, Q5); LiteFlux LF2XT-R2;

  17. #167

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by 7histology View Post
    When will we be able to buy this charger? - and do we have a guesstimated price?
    It's probably fair to say that nobody really knows when this charger will be launched. Hopefully before the end of the year, but nothing is certain. HKJ has given an educated guess in post 68 above that he expects it to cost in excess of $100.

  18. #168

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    still fit as mentioned before.
    I had to edit the mentioned post. I took C-size cells and taped them with transparent film to increase their diameter up to 26.5mm, because that's the typical diameter of 26650 batteries. I went to the supermarket and bought a pair of brand new D cell Alkalines; the cells happen to have a diameter of 33.0mm! With these cells i simulated the insertion of 26650 and 32650 in the MC3000 battery tray, and to my surprise I found out that 2Χ(32650+26650) actually fit in the tray as long as the 32650's do not lie next to each other. Clearly, D/D/C/C, C/C/D/D or C/D/D/C are a nogo, but D/C/D/C, C/D/C/D or D/C/C/D are fine tray configurations:


    The above config has the disadvantage that the first C-cell (or 26650 or 26730) is interlocked between the two D-cells (or 32650 or 33730) and cannot be removed without removing one of the bigger cells.

    The below config has the advantage that the middle cells can be exchanged at any time and in any order while leaving the outer cells in place. The symmetrical arrangement may also be advantageous for heat transfer to the environment:


    In the above two photos the LCD shows the TOV, the Total Overview. The four channels are ready to proceed with the charge program. To signal the readiness, the SNB led's (Slot Number Button LED's) blink RED-GREEN-RED-GREEN-RED-GREEN-etc while the info row shows a blinking slot number w/ program symbol plus a blinking "READY".
    From here, you could click (= short-press) SNB#3 to start the program in slot#3, or long-press SNB#3 to switch to SPV (Slot Programming View) of slot#3 for changing the parameters and parameter options of the program in slot#3, or press the SETUP-button to enter the GSV (General/Global Settings View), or press the ENTER-button to start all 'ready-slots' at the same time, or press blablah to activate bluetooth, or press etc.

    @7histology
    Thanks for your interest in the product!
    The release date is still in the making and the consumer's end price can be freely chosen by the seller since there is no MAP. My guess is that no seller will be capable of fixing or dictating it. Competition and the market, -demand and supply- , are going to level the price. And in the beginning there should be (forum) group buys, coupon codes, holiday discounts, or similar promotional things going on. Once the product has been released, we could hunt for the best deals together and point to them on CPFMP.

    Will be some fun!
    Last edited by kreisl; 10-16-2014 at 07:19 AM.

  19. #169

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by 7histology View Post
    When will we be able to buy this charger?
    There is a prospected release date given in the updated PDF catalog:
    http://www.skyrc.com/download/catalog.pdf

  20. #170

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by shelm View Post
    There is a prospected release date given in the updated PDF catalog:
    http://www.skyrc.com/download/catalog.pdf
    But I want it nowwwwwwwww

  21. #171
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Maybe we'll get and early release? Oh well I can come back in 6 months, it will give me more time with using my existing chargers, and maybe i'll have more cells that are less standard for testing.

  22. #172

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Spring begins in 4 months and ends by the end of May, that's seven months away omg. A long time to keep filling this thread with more info, answers, news, updates, and details, please don't get bored

    Let me know if you guys want some other pics, animations or videos
    Last edited by kreisl; 10-18-2014 at 01:15 PM.

  23. #173
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by _UPz View Post
    i would like to see the PCB
    You forgot me or what?

  24. #174

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    hola UPz_!!

    for your consideration

    PBV = Power Bank View
    Last edited by kreisl; 10-20-2014 at 03:31 AM.

  25. #175
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    i was talking about the PBV, did you mean the PBV? could be in catalγo it is spelled this way similar to EEUU and USA, ONU and UN, SIDA and etc
    StandardBattery had shared a youtube of the PBV

    here a tiny demo of various LED lighting modi and manual 0V activation of tripped PCB's:

    Eh? PCB is a very commonly used acronym for printed circuit board. I've never seen PBV before this thread.

    When someone asks you for a picture of the PCB, they basically expect you to open up the device and take a picture of its guts.

    Liking the functionality here by the way, although it's a bit hard to determine the user-friendliness.

  26. #176

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    GOOD NEWS. From what i have learned, the retail shipping package is going to include a free external PSU adapter hooray. With the adapter which i got one could easily switch the wall socket cable to adapt to different plug types (US/EU/UK/AU/.. plug) without changing the whole adapter construction, genius. With the total weight of the installed product being ~0.883kg, plus printed manual, cardboard box, accessories and whatnot, the international shipping weight will exceed 1.0kg in a heartbeat. Posting this as sub 2kg Registered Letter, ouch not cheap. Because of warranty and stuff, personally i'd wouldn't mind acquiring such a big heavy thing from a national or local dealer than a Chinese etailer.

    Today i painted the numbers/symbols of the 8 buttons with thinned down tippex correction fluid, white color. Looks sweet imho
    I guess that most viewers would prefer the black-in-black stealth style as seen in the catalog?

    When i got the final production version, i'll take photos of the guts, no problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    charger model
    max dimensions WΧHΧL
    weight
    comments
    XTAR XP4
    92.4 Χ 34.6 Χ 125.0 mm³
    170g unit + 149 mains adapter
    tiny. heat issues.
    Nitcore i4 V2
    96.3 Χ 36.6 Χ 136.5 mm³
    160g unit + 67g mains cable
    light. cheap. it is!
    Opus BT-C3100
    100.1 Χ 42.9 Χ 150.0 mm³
    230g unit + 194g mains adapter
    likable product, no doubt.
    Maha MH-C9000
    109.8 Χ 41.7 Χ 165.0 mm³
    364g unit + 153g mains adapter
    2006 release. big.
    Skyrc MC3000
    124.0 Χ 68.8 Χ 200.3 mm³
    601g unit + 215g PSU + 67g mains cable
    whopper. 2014 release?
    Last edited by kreisl; 10-22-2014 at 01:56 AM.

  27. #177
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    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Impressive, i like the idea of a charger that stays put and has no over heating issues. i hope they have a good US distributor or dealer lined up.

  28. #178

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Good news about the power supply being included in the package. It would be nice to see some European distributors for this (UK even better), but if I have to order from China, well, it won't be the first time.

  29. #179

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    while waiting myself for the latest updates from the skyrc offices i stumbled upon this beautiful 1.0 product release documentary which in manifold ways reminded me of the dc2 development team, offices and ongoing 1.0 release. hope you enjoy it as much as i did, please lemme share:



    and sorry for the ot

  30. #180

    Default Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    I placed a FT order for the 4 round 3s1p-holders and the USB tester and meanwhile i will be testing powerbanking from 10440's. Maybe such low capacity cells are the key to the solution of the mentioned logistic challenges. I'll replace the video then with an updated better clip.
    woah. 450 views since my last post. some of you must be interested in the updates in this thread as it seems, thanks
    2 news items for today:

    1.
    i got the round battery holders and the USB tester to test with the power bank. I am gonna share report or photo or vid of the test, stay tuned:



    2.
    i've got word that an updated firmware will be out within 1 week for the testers to test. It's been over a month since the last FW update and i've been getting desperate since
    hallelujah.

    lol.

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