Better Business Bureau

spydiesteve

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Jan 4, 2014
Messages
32
Location
Western KY.
I haven't heard from Mac in nearly a month, since he said I would have tracking info "shortly". I sent him another email on Monday saying if I hadn't heard from him by Friday (yesterday) I would open a new thread asking everyone he owes a light, too come together and turn in a list of names and what we are owed to the BBB. It may not do any good, but I feel like we need to try. I am sick and tired of custom makers asking people to pay up front and then not deliver what was paid for. There are several former knife makers who have done the same thing. Stealing is stealing plain and simple!! So if you want to participate please post your full name, the light you paid for with order date, and the amount you paid for the light. I will let this thread run for a week or so and if there is enough interest I will proceed with filing the claim, if not I will file the claim myself. Who knows this thread alone may be enough to get him to deliver what is owed or at least give us a refund.

Steve Turner
Tri-EDC Neutral tint with Ti clip. $234.98
January 4th 2014
Paid in full
 

Str8stroke

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
5,032
Location
On The Black Pearl
I don't know the man, nor owe the man. But, I have been following all these posts for a while now. I would caution you that the BBB is likely a waste of time and energy. Trust me, I run a small business. The BBB has Zero leverage and is a joke. They are a money making private business! They exist only to try and strong arm businesses into a membership in order to "resolve the complaint". No matter how petty or bogus the "complaint" is.

I would suggest you try and gather as many folks as willing and file a Class Action suit. That would likely get some results. Assuming he is still alive (Even then you could go after the Estate) and hasn't or doesn't file BK on you.

I am not a Attny, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.

Good luck folks.
 

IsaacL

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
644
Location
USA
FWIW, State AG Offices handle fraud cases. The BBB is not a LE agency and has no direct enforcement powers.

I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express ;) but I did take a White Collar Crime course taught by one of the PA AG's senior special agents.
 
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LupinIII

Enlightened
Joined
Feb 20, 2010
Messages
267
Location
NY/NJ Area
The BBB really has no leverage here whatsoever. I recently ran into issues with another small business that was horrible with communication and delaying the project after I paid in full up front. Found out later on that others had reported the business to the BBB and nothing has changed. The project was ultimately completed fortunately.

In this case, Mac has had a long history of not handling communication and timing commitments well BUT I do not know of anyone who has actually been stiffed on a light. Sure there is technically always a line of people waiting for what they paid for but I do believe he will make good on his remaining backlog. I understand how much it sucks to be at the mercy of one person who has your money and it is too late to take direct action via some service such as Paypal or your credit card company - I feel for you guys. With that in mind, giving it time is likely the best action. Give the guy some breathing room (and I know he does not necessarily deserve it) to make good on his orders.

It would be more helpful if people who have received lights recently post when they received their order and as more people get them, they update here. Ideally, we would see a progression of orders being filled over the months. Hopeful yes but BBB is ineffective and class action is unlikely in my opinion.
 

Espionage Studio

Enlightened
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Messages
953
Location
[503]
It really sucks when I spent far too long writing a great post and the browser times out and when I click the post button everything I just laboriously typed is :poof: uuuugh! My original post was so much better... Anyway, Spydiesteve your heart is in the right place but the BBB is a joke unfortunately. The best thing for us would be to have people post in the "order and fill date" thread for sure. Mac told me about a month or two ago that "your light will be completed" I have no choice but to take the man for his word and as LupinIII stated he hasn't technically "stiffed" anyone out of their money he just takes a ridiculously loooooooooooong time sometimes. Who knows how many lights he is behind, could be 100+ for all we know, it could be an overwhelmingly large amount. Not to mention he might be pissed, imagine the volume of nasty emails he probably gets in all of his accounts almost daily? I'm not trying to defend his behavior too much, I want my light as much as the next guy, but imagine how HAPPY we will be the day we find that package in the mail box!
 

spydiesteve

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
32
Location
Western KY.
Well I guess from what I am hearing BBB is not a viable option. However with that being said why do people constantly defend this person. If you pay for something and you are promised a six week delivery date, after six months have passed and you haven't heard from the seller, then to me that is stealing. not one time in the first six months did I harass Mac or send him an email of any kind, fact of the matter I actually forgot about it. I also looked in the post your order thread and there are people who paid for light over a year ago!! If you get that far behind you should stop taking orders, not just let your website keep running and people keep buying lights with the six week delivery date. This is fraud plain and simple. I am to the point that I really don't care how great his light is I just the light or my money back and be done with all this. I don't know what makes people think he is going to deliver? He doesn't answer email he doesn't post in this forum, and his website is closed down. I will say that I have learned my lesson and will no longer pay up front for anything.
 

Nicrod

Flashaholic
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
6,011
Location
So Cal
I too would like to hear from the people, IF any at all, that are in fact receiving lights!


Has anyone received a light from Mac direct in the last 6 months?? Please post!


Nick
 

Espionage Studio

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Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Messages
953
Location
[503]
Not sure this will help anybody out now but I got a Paypal update today, they are now doing the following "• We're increasing the time for buyers to file merchandise disputes (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days.
• We're extending buyer protection to include item not received claims for custom made products."
 

cjmorris

Enlightened
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
239
Location
west coast
This is a sad situation. I have wanted one if macs lights but I just couldn't trust him at this point.
 

Nutdip

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Jan 1, 2013
Messages
122
Location
Santa Maria, California

nbp

Flashaholic
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
10,970
Location
Wisconsin
Hey at least you didn't have to worry about your wife tossing it. It's still *safe* at Mac's shop. :sigh:
 

H20doctor

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
222
Location
seattle
so i have read the threads of Mac , and Him ripping off people for paid lights, and not responding to emails..etc..etc..etc.. So here are my questions on this whole dilemma... #1) why Hasnt Candle Power forums taken action against Mac..? #2) someone on CPF has to live near or in the same state as He does, or know Mac... why havent they gotten involved in going over there and talking to him face to face ? #3) why dont the people who have been ripped off draw up a Laywer and sue him as a group or take leagal action against him.. lein his house , seize assets..etc..etc..?
 

Greta

Flashaholic
Joined
Apr 8, 2002
Messages
15,999
Location
Arizona
... #1) why Hasnt Candle Power forums taken action against Mac..?

Because it is none of my (CPF's) business. These transactions that take place between private parties do not involve me or CPF beyond providing a venue for private parties to engage in such transactions.
 

IsaacL

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
644
Location
USA
so i have read the threads of Mac , and Him ripping off people for paid lights, and not responding to emails..etc..etc..etc.. So here are my questions on this whole dilemma... #1) why Hasnt Candle Power forums taken action against Mac..? #2) someone on CPF has to live near or in the same state as He does, or know Mac... why havent they gotten involved in going over there and talking to him face to face ? #3) why dont the people who have been ripped off draw up a Laywer and sue him as a group or take leagal action against him.. lein his house , seize assets..etc..etc..?
Please please please, nobody go and try to shake down Mac. While your post didn't explicitly mention it, the tone is very aggressive. Things tend to escalate in physical confrontations and I would not want to see anyone here put themselves in a potentially legal bind.

I think you are overreacting, especially considering the totality of the circumstances. It is quite common for custom orders to stretch into months and even years. And unlike previous makers who did take member's money and run, Mac has never given us reason to believe the orders will not eventually be fulfilled.

Greta said it best, CPF is just a venue for makers and collectors to congregate. If you personally have an outstanding order, I humbly suggest that you first try contacting Mac. The next appropriate step would be to go to Paypal or your credit card company to file a claim.

That is just my opinion and you are certainly welcome to disregard it.
 

Navistar

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Messages
132
Location
Dulles,Va
This situation is very strange. I've been off the forum for a long time and Mac had always been a member in good standing and to come back and see all of this is weird. I bought a mag conversion part from him and it was a smooth transaction. Hope to see it all blow over as I came back to his forum to drool over his lights:(


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums
 

nbp

Flashaholic
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
10,970
Location
Wisconsin
It's been worsening for years. It's not going to blow over.

Anyways, I do also wonder at times why Lummi and Mac still have subforums here. Rob and Mac haven't posted or monitored their subforums for ages. What's more, their business practices have been deplorable.

That they still have subforums gives the impression (whether true or not) that CPF as a community and its administration still support them. I would say almost no one supports Lummi anymore and many are unhappy with Mac.

The Arc subforum was dissolved when Arc as it was when Peter was a part of this community no longer existed. Lummi and Mac's Customs really are no longer a part of this community.

What's more, and perhaps the thing that irks me the most is that these two subforums, rife with threads about problems with the makers and absent any activity on the part of those makers, stand strong in a prominent place alongside esteemed members of the board such as Don and Data and Fred and the Oveready boys and others. Personally, I think it is absurd that Rob's subforum should be right there alongside these guys who still work so hard to support the community and take outstanding care of their customers. Lummi and Mac no longer deserve to have their subforums.

I make a motion to dissolve these subforums and move the threads as was done with Arc.

Greta, If this is OT feel free to move it or start a new thread with it as the OP or something but it's something I've wanted to say for awhile and I hope it is taken seriously. Thank you.
 

H20doctor

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
222
Location
seattle
im not trying to stir the pot, or be aggressive in any way ... If i paid $600.00 or more for a flash light , as some people have here, and then gotten no replies, PM or emails to where my flashlight is ? i would be not in a happy mood... If you add up the amount of money he has collected for lights still not delivered, that to me is theft , So why is theft Not a Violation of CPF Terms Of Service ? Or TOS ? .... it may be a private sale , but it gives CPF a bad rap as a site on the internet ... there are people here waiting for a product, and Mac as a Courtesy , as a business person should be providing answers to these people...
 
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