I need a flashlight for looking down wells

Mailman mike · Oct 30, 2014

I posted recently about needing a flashlight for hazardous locations like pumping stations where flammable gases are present. Well what I find needing even more is a flashlight to look into the wet well after I lift the lid. It's hard to believe but in full light of day my Quark QT2A-X on high does nothing to illuminate them. Most are about forty feet deep and a quick look down can give you the cause of your problem(tangled floats). Either way you want to know whats down there before doing anything(formulating a confined space entry permit). Any battery type or material is ok. I just want the smallest available. Has to be so I carry it always. Price is of second concern. Thanks.

Timothybil · Oct 30, 2014

Do you need to see down 'to' the surface or below the surface? Given the sunlight behind I don't think any hand held light would let you look below the surface due to the high background illumination. As far as seeing to the water, a Nitecore P10 or P12 should do the trick at 800/1000 lumens, yet small enough to comfortably wear on a belt. Make sure you find a sturdy lanyard you are comfortable with, either wrist or neck, so that you don't drop it. The next step up would be a TM11/15, putting you into the 2k/3k lumen range. I don't know about the TM15, but I have worn my TM11 on my belt a time or two. It would not be as comfortable as the P-series lights, but it can be done. Right now my TM11 rides in a holster fastened to my shoulder bag, since I also have an EA41 for my belt.
I am sure there are many other lights out there that will work just as well, I am just not familiar with them. One advantage the Nitecore lights have is that they are all IPX8, so they can survive a one meter dunking for at least half an hour if they do fall.

Taz80 · Oct 30, 2014

You need something with tight beam, without overly bright spill. A real thrower would be best, like a M3X type light. If thats to big maybe an Armytek Predator or one of Vinh's modified throwers. Sunlight, as you have seen, really eats up the lumen's so you need bright and tight.

buds224 · Oct 30, 2014

Taz80 said:
You need something with tight beam, without overly bright spill. A real thrower would be best, like a M3X type light. If thats to big maybe an Armytek Predator or one of Vinh's modified throwers. Sunlight, as you have seen, really eats up the lumen's so you need bright and tight.

I 2nd the predator. Tight throwy beam.

880arm · Oct 30, 2014

Agreed, you want lux over lumens. Like you, my usage is typically when there are other light sources to compete with. As a result, I have been a big fan of the SureFire E-series lights with their TIR lenses, particularly the EB1 and EB2 Backup. I've used these to check outdoor sumps down to 15-20 feet and they have worked quite well.

Alternatively, you could use your Quark with about 20 feet of paracord and I'm sure it would work quite well!

eebowler · Oct 30, 2014

A throwy reflectored light is nice but the sidespill could prevent you from seeing right to the bottom of the well. Personally, I hate aspherical lights but in this case it seems functionally a good option.

Mailman mike · Oct 30, 2014

Yes to the surface of the fluid. I don't like to thing about what's In that liquid or below. Vac truck take it away or bypass it.

Mailman mike · Oct 30, 2014

880arm said:
Agreed, you want lux over lumens. Like you, my usage is typically when there are other light sources to compete with. As a result, I have been a big fan of the SureFire E-series lights with their TIR lenses, particularly the EB1 and EB2 Backup. I've used these to check outdoor sumps down to 15-20 feet and they have worked quite well.

Alternatively, you could use your Quark with about 20 feet of paracord and I'm sure it would work quite well!

Nice pun.... Well.

Mailman mike · Oct 30, 2014

880arm said:
Agreed, you want lux over lumens. Like you, my usage is typically when there are other light sources to compete with. As a result, I have been a big fan of the SureFire E-series lights with their TIR lenses, particularly the EB1 and EB2 Backup. I've used these to check outdoor sumps down to 15-20 feet and they have worked quite well.

Alternatively, you could use your Quark with about 20 feet of paracord and I'm sure it would work quite well!

Just checked their site quickly.
Wouldn't the G2X be as good or better? Am I missing something? Oh I missed the EB2 that's brighter.

880arm · Oct 30, 2014

Mailman mike said:
Nice pun.... Well.

Well . . . you got me :shrug:

Mailman mike said:
Just checked their site quickly.
Wouldn't the G2X be as good or better? Am I missing something? Oh I missed the EB2 that's brighter.

Yeah, the term "brighter" can mean different things depending upon the context. Without going into the long version (click here for that) there are two functions when it comes to the "brightness" of a light. One is the light's total output, measured in lumens, which indicates the sheer quantity of light created with no regard for where it goes. The second is related to the intensity of light, measured in lux, which gives an indication of what you can actually see in the form of light reflected back from your target.

From what you described, you need high(er) lux in order to compete with the ambient lighting from the sun. Because they use optics (lenses) instead of reflectors, the EB1 and EB2 have more intense beams than similarly sized reflector-based lights with the same levels of output. This doesn't mean that reflectors can't make a tight beam, for example the ArmyTek Predator mentioned above has a MUCH more intense beam than either of the SureFires, but they are typically much larger than the optics-based lights. I mentioned the EB1 and EB2 because they are relatively compact.

The beam profile can also matter because, as eebowler mentioned, a light with a bright spill can also hamper your ability to see well because it can reflect light back to your eyes from the sides of the well, making it harder to see the bottom. The G2X you mentioned has a nice general purpose beam but much of its output is in the spill beam where it's of less use to you, or maybe even detrimental.

Timothybil · Oct 30, 2014

I forgot to ask, when you say well, do you mean pressure pump type well with a 12" casing, or open shallow well down to an aquifer. I grew up on a farm with windmill down on the flat and covered brick-sided cistern up on the hill. You know the type, six foot or so diameter narrowing down to large manhole sized cover, maybe ten to fifteen feet deep. That is what I was thinking of when I gave my original answer.

Mailman mike · Oct 31, 2014

880arm said:
Well . . . you got me :shrug:

Yeah, the term "brighter" can mean different things depending upon the context. Without going into the long version (click here for that) there are two functions when it comes to the "brightness" of a light. One is the light's total output, measured in lumens, which indicates the sheer quantity of light created with no regard for where it goes. The second is related to the intensity of light, measured in lux, which gives an indication of what you can actually see in the form of light reflected back from your target.

From what you described, you need high(er) lux in order to compete with the ambient lighting from the sun. Because they use optics (lenses) instead of reflectors, the EB1 and EB2 have more intense beams than similarly sized reflector-based lights with the same levels of output. This doesn't mean that reflectors can't make a tight beam, for example the ArmyTek Predator mentioned above has a MUCH more intense beam than either of the SureFires, but they are typically much larger than the optics-based lights. I mentioned the EB1 and EB2 because they are relatively compact.

The beam profile can also matter because, as eebowler mentioned, a light with a bright spill can also hamper your ability to see well because it can reflect light back to your eyes from the sides of the well, making it harder to see the bottom. The G2X you mentioned has a nice general purpose beam but much of its output is in the spill beam where it's of less use to you, or maybe even detrimental.

Your explanation of the Lens system gave me insight. I didn't catch the full meaning of the EB's TIR. I was a machinist for 28 years and really did wonder why they were making reference to "TOTAL INDICATOR RUNOUT". I guess this type of lens is like a magnifying glass with a fixed focal distance to the light source? Not a cheap ZOOMY. I have to read better and not with a preconceived notion. Stops me from seeing all the info.

Mailman mike · Oct 31, 2014

Timothybil said:
I forgot to ask, when you say well, do you mean pressure pump type well with a 12" casing, or open shallow well down to an aquifer. I grew up on a farm with windmill down on the flat and covered brick-sided cistern up on the hill. You know the type, six foot or so diameter narrowing down to large manhole sized cover, maybe ten to fifteen feet deep. That is what I was thinking of when I gave my original answer.

The wells are wet and dry sewer lift stations. Most three to eight feet around and thirty to forty feet down to the waste water if their wet. They can go fifty feet to the hard bottom but most of the time we never see that. Usually the only time we have to go down is if there's something stuck or a mess of stuff wadded up on the floats. Maybe if we're lifting the pump out and it gets jammed.

Poppy · Oct 31, 2014

Mailman mike said:
I posted recently about needing a flashlight for hazardous locations like pumping stations where flammable gases are present. Well what I find needing even more is a flashlight to look into the wet well after I lift the lid. It's hard to believe but in full light of day my Quark QT2A-X on high does nothing to illuminate them. Most are about forty feet deep and a quick look down can give you the cause of your problem(tangled floats). Either way you want to know whats down there before doing anything(formulating a confined space entry permit). Any battery type or material is ok. I just want the smallest available. Has to be so I carry it always. Price is of second concern. Thanks.

Mailman mike said:
The wells are wet and dry sewer lift stations. Most three to eight feet around and thirty to forty feet down to the waste water if their wet. They can go fifty feet to the hard bottom but most of the time we never see that. Usually the only time we have to go down is if there's something stuck or a mess of stuff wadded up on the floats. Maybe if we're lifting the pump out and it gets jammed.

Mike, although I don't own a Quark, I would think that it should do the job at only 40 feet. It seems to me that your bigger problem is that YOUR eyes are adapted to the bright sun-light. Does the Quark work well enough for you at dusk? If so, then you might try wearing sunglasses, until you look down the hole.

reppans · Oct 31, 2014

The Quark XML is a flooder - not appropriate for this application. I think the problem is that the large hotspot and bright spill will washout the foreground (early part of the well) so that the subject at the bottom of the well, will seem much darker in contrast. Even if the 400 lumen Quark XML could put an equal amount of lux on target as a 100 lumen pencil beam thrower, you will have a much harder time seeing the distant target due to the foreground glare. Conversely, a high lux thrower beam is really annoying to use for close task work.

How about just getting a QB2A (turbo) head.... and perhaps a 1AA or 1CR123 batt tube and play Quark Lego

.

880arm said:
Alternatively, you could use your Quark with about 20 feet of paracord and I'm sure it would work quite well!

EDIT...+1 ^^ this will do the job as well... and for free.

Mailman mike · Nov 1, 2014

Alternatively, you could use your Quark with about 20 feet of paracord and I'm sure it would work quite well![/QUOTE]
Hey not bad. This gives me a idea. Maybe I can design a flashlight that has a fishing type reel integrated into it. When I'm out in the job and not using it to illuminate wells I can use it on lunch in a nearby lake or river to catch dinner. Ha!

braddy · Nov 1, 2014

Mailman mike said:
I posted recently about needing a flashlight for hazardous locations like pumping stations where flammable gases are present. Well what I find needing even more is a flashlight to look into the wet well after I lift the lid. It's hard to believe but in full light of day my Quark QT2A-X on high does nothing to illuminate them. Most are about forty feet deep and a quick look down can give you the cause of your problem(tangled floats). Either way you want to know whats down there before doing anything(formulating a confined space entry permit). Any battery type or material is ok. I just want the smallest available. Has to be so I carry it always. Price is of second concern. Thanks.

LOL, others can suggest the best flashlight which you need to own for your work, but stop at the drugstore or 99cent store and pick up a large handheld mirror, during most of the day that mirror will put literal sunlight down there that no flashlight can duplicate.

I need a flashlight for looking down wells

Mailman mike

Newly Enlightened

Timothybil

Flashlight Enthusiast

Taz80

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buds224

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880arm

Flashlight Enthusiast

eebowler

Flashlight Enthusiast

Mailman mike

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Mailman mike

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Mailman mike

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880arm

Flashlight Enthusiast

Timothybil

Flashlight Enthusiast

Mailman mike

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Mailman mike

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Poppy

Flashaholic

reppans

Flashlight Enthusiast

Mailman mike

Newly Enlightened

braddy

Enlightened

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