Poor HIR2 projector performance

world.traveler

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Two cars that use HIR2s with a shuttered projector have been panned by CR as having very poor headlight performance: the new Chevy Impala and the Chrysler 200. I own a 2014 Impala and using my wife's 2003 Malibu and a recently rented Impala Limited (old model, reflector halogens) as baselines, note that the HIR2 equipped Impala's lighting is considerably inferior to either of those: poor beam intensity with very little light to the side. In wet weather the car is unnerving to drive on twisty roads, and 45 degree turns from a stop sign are an exercise in guesswork due to the narrow focus of the beam. Has anyone had similar experiences with HIR2 equipped projectors? There are several complaints about the Impala's lights versus none for last year's model on the NHTSA site, but no investigation as yet. My view is that the HIR2s in this application make the car unsafe to drive at night.

By comparison, I have noticed that new Hyundai's, which have HB3/9005 based units, seem to throw a very strong and well designed beam, subjectively comparable to HIDs on BMWs and Audis, so a well designed halogen unit can clearly work.

What is it with this much-touted HIR2 unit; why the poor performance?
 

-Virgil-

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The HIR2 ("9012") is an extremely good light source. It has excellent luminous flux and luminance and filament precision and lifespan and efficacy. However, that does not automatically mean any headlamp that uses the HIR2 bulb is going to be a good headlamp. If the headlamp's optics are not efficient or aren't well focused by design, or if the production of the headlamp is sloppy, or if the vehicle does not supply the bulbs with adequate voltage, then the headlamps' objective performance will be poor. And of course, it's very possible (and quite common) to have headlamps that give objectively good performance while garnering negative subjective impressions by drivers -- remember, subjective impressions of headlamp performance are often far out of line with the objective reality.

The HB3 ("9005") is inferior to the HIR2 ("9012") in almost every respect. It puts out less light, it consumes more power, it has a shorter lifespan, its filament placement is less precise. Luminance is about equal. And yet, there are some HB3 headlamps that outperform some HIR2 headlamps. Likewise, H9 produces more light than HIR2, yet there are some H9 headlamps that don't perform as well as some HIR2 headlamps.

Don't blame the bulbs; it's not their fault. Your complaint is with General Motors. And their complaint may be with whoever they bought the headlamps from. Chrysler's problem with the 200 wasn't a bad headlamp design, it was sloppy manufacturing (inadequate process and quality control) by the Korean supplier they contracted to make the headlamps. That is why the 200 got lousy ratings and other models with headlamps identical in all the ways that matter -- same projector, same manufacturer, same bulb, comparable mounting height -- got good ratings (though this should not be taken to mean that the Consumer Reports "headlamp tests" are reliable; in fact they are badly flawed at the structural level).
 

world.traveler

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Thanks for the reply Virgil. No, I'm not blaming the bulbs, just pointing out they don't seem to have been implemented successfully in the two American applications I mentioned (I note your comments re QC on the 200). My review of the Impala's lights is based on the objective criterion that it is not possible to see the side of the road immediately in front of the car; rather the beam seems to gradually fade in well forward of the car. I've compared this behavior both to our 2003 Malibu's, which I can drive confidently in heavy rain and on country roads, despite the prosaic hardware, and the Impala Limited rental I drove recently. The performance of the Impala installation has bothered several people enough to register complaints at NHTSA (none noted for the 2013 model) including one accident where the driver left the road for a ditch because he or she could not see.

Regarding subjective versus objective evaluation, I wonder whether the standards applied by objective static tests might miss important aspects of performance that are immediately apparent upon use in real-world conditions. As an aside I owned a Dodge Shadow many years ago and was struck by the poor quality of lighting on that car, and also remember renting a Hyundai in Florida about 18 years ago and being really impressed by the lights on that. I'm struck by the extent to which inertia, for good or ill, strengths and weaknesses, drives design, features and performance in the car industry.
 
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Alaric Darconville

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Regarding subjective versus objective evaluation, I wonder whether the standards applied by objective static tests might miss important aspects of performance that are immediately apparent upon use in real-world conditions.

Those aspects of performance eventually make their way into statistics, which are extremely complicated. For the most part, cries of "but REAL-WORLD conditions" are quite often unfounded, or based on anecdotes, rumors, and, most of all, "common sense".

As -Virgil- said,
And of course, it's very possible (and quite common) to have headlamps that give objectively good performance while garnering negative subjective impressions by drivers -- remember, subjective impressions of headlamp performance are often far out of line with the objective reality.
It's very possible (and quite common) to have headlamps that give subjectively good performance while garnering negative objective measurements by qualified users of the correct instrumentation and test methods-- remember, objective measures of headlamp performance are sometimes far out of line with subjective impressions. Hence the proliferation of "HID kits" and headlamp-shaped toys from TYC, Depo, Spyder, Maxxima, and the like.
 

-Virgil-

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My review of the Impala's lights is based on the objective criterion that it is not possible to see the side of the road immediately in front of the car; rather the beam seems to gradually fade in well forward of the car

Here's a sticking point. That's not an objective evaluation (or criterion) at all, it's a subjective impression: you are judging the headlamps based on what it feels (you say "seems") you can't see. In fact, we (human beans) aren't able to make accurate judgments of how well (or how badly) we can see, or how well (or how poorly) a headlamp performs. It's just not something we're equipped to do; our subjective judgments are very often, very far out of step with the objective reality. Plus, the number-one factor that drives subjective "ratings" of headlamps is foreground light, that is the amount of light on the surface of the road close to the vehicle. But foreground light has zero-to-negative effect on the actual safety performance of the headlamp (i.e., how well it actually lets the driver see what they need to see to drive safely). This same specific disjunction between reality and perception is what causes so many people to misuse their fog lamps as always-on auxiliary lights: the extra foreground light creates the impression (but not the reality) of improved seeing and safety. There are many, many other "we think we see X, and we think Y makes us safe, but neither is the case" specifics involved with headlight beams. And photographs are equally useless for other reasons. The only way headlamps can really accurately be assessed and compared is on a photogoniometer. There's some info and examples here.

The performance of the Impala installation has bothered several people enough to register complaints at NHTSA

I don't doubt that -- but while I don't want to sound like I'm just dismissing the idea that the current Malibu headlamp might have annoying deficiencies in its performance, I do want to point out that people file complaints at NHTSA all the time for all kinds of things that aren't really the way they seem.

including one accident where the driver left the road for a ditch because he or she could not see.

That might be what happened...and it might not. This hits on why some aspects of vehicle lighting systems are slackly regulated in America: our regulatory structure requires positive cost/benefit for any mandatory aspect of a safety standard. Risk analysis or simulation isn't allowed, it has to be actual cost/benefit analysis based on actual crash data. That's easy to do for crashworthiness standards (seat belts, for example) and for post-crash survivability standards (fuel system integrity, for example) but it's very difficult to do for crash-avoidance standards (lighting being the prime example) because effective lighting creates "unCrashes", that is, crashes that don't happen. You can't assess the costs of a crash that didn't happen, so as a result it's hard to legally justify stringent lighting standards in our system. To be clear, I am definitely not defending this sorry state of affairs, just describing it.

Back to your comment about the couldn't-see/went-in-a-ditch crash: maybe better headlamps would have prevented this crash, and maybe not. We cannot rely on the driver's conclusion. The driver simply isn't equipped or in a position to make that conclusion reliably.

Regarding subjective versus objective evaluation, I wonder whether the standards applied by objective static tests might miss important aspects of performance that are immediately apparent upon use in real-world conditions.

That's mostly a reasonable question to ask, but the answer is no. That's not the problem; each and every test point in the headlamp standards is well backed by good science. The problem is that the minimum allowable headlamp performance is not necessarily adequate. Regulators don't tend to advance the bottom end of the standard nearly as often as the market advances the top end of the performance available to drivers. A headlamp that gives performance that was considered legal in 1975 is still considered legal on a new car today, even though it is in most respects hugely outperformed by newer headlamp designs and technologies.

More importantly, headlamp performance is not a single "black box" that can be rated or ranked on a scale. Headlamp beams are specified and evaluated in terms of minimum and/or maximum allowable intensities at a range of angles up, down, left, and right relative to the headlamp's axis. Each test point or zone has an allowable intensity range. Because of the way our human visual system works, a headlamp that produces "X" amount of light straight ahead of the car in the foreground and "Y" amount of light at wide lateral angles can dependably create the impression of perfectly adequate light at wide lateral angles, while a headlamp producing "2X" amount of light straight ahead of the car in the foreground and the same "Y" amount of wide-angles light as the first headlamp can seem to leave the wide angles totally unlit.

I say this was a "mostly" reasonable question because people who don't understand what they're talking about (headlamps or anything else) often resort to the "real world" argument when faced with facts that don't line up with their opinions. That is "Fine, whatever, I don't care about your so-called 'objective' tests; I KNOW WHAT I CAN SEE IN THE REAL WORLD!!! I DRIVE WITH MY EYES, NOT WITH A PHOTO-WHATEVER-METER IN THE LAB!!!". That argument is without merit (and isn't worth quarrelling over; those who advance it are not interested in learning). I don't think you're putting forth that line of argument, I'm just bringing it up because you used that "real world" phrase.

As an aside I owned a Dodge Shadow many years ago and was struck by the poor quality of lighting on that car

Yes, you're right about that. Chrysler installed cheap, nasty, minimal headlamps and severely under-rated wiring on almost everything they built with replaceable-bulb headlamps through the early 2000s. Remember, the Federal standard does not require "good" headlamps, it requires legally compliant ones. Legally there is no difference between a headlamp that just barely meets the minimum requirements and one that is near the maximum allowable output. (It might interest you to know that the lousy headlamps on your Shadow were a result of Ford Motor Company's cheapness-centered headlamp system specifications they submitted to NHTSA in 1983, which NHTSA rubber-stamped and wrote into law as the basis for all American-market replaceable-bulb headlights).

I'm struck by the extent to which inertia, for good or ill, strengths and weaknesses, drives design, features and performance in the car industry.

H'm. I'm not sure how this applies here. How do you mean?
 
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world.traveler

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Thanks both for your carefully crafted and thoughtful responses, and I take your points about subjective evaluation on board. For what it is worth, I took the car out for a long country drive last night. On a sweeping two lane road or straight limited access highway the lighting is fine and very even, if not as subjectively bright as an HID's beam. Perhaps it's this evenness, compared to a lower quality beam punctuated by bright spots from lights with lesser bulbs, which gives the impression of less light with the HIR2 based unit. The issue I still have with the Impala application is the inability to see to the side during a sharp turn. I parked the Impala and the 2003 Malibu at the same point in our driveway. The Malibu lit up the lawn to the side that the Impala left in complete darkness (I was unable to see any objects in the field that could be easily seen when illuminated by the Malibu). The comments on NHTSA center around the same complaint (narrowness of the beam, poor visibility to the side) and the quantity of the lighting complaints is high compared to previous years.

I am with you on those after-market HID kits - the cars should be stopped and impounded. I was followed by a full sized Dodge truck that had HID reflectors and HID fogs all blazing into my rear and side mirrors -- blinding and intimidating, which I suppose is the intent.

I travel to the UK and continental Europe from time to time. The halogen low beam pattern there has a very sharp cutoff with a beam that slants upwards at the kerb. The main beam (high beam) appears to be brighter and reach farther than in the U.S. There is a knob on the dash to adjust the height of the headlight aim to compensate for load changes. Is there any talk of consolidating these standards in future? I'm thinking of a possible US/EU trade agreement and what that might bring.
 
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-Virgil-

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You are right that vehicle lighting is different outside North America, but it is not as different as it used to be. Virtually all US low beams now have a cutoff of one kind or another, including the lamps on your Impala. It can be the same shape as the European cutoff (low and horizontal on the left, sweeping or stepping up to the right), but it doesn't have to be, and many vehicles in North America have a straight-line cutoff that might not be recognizeable as a cutoff to those accustomed to the European beam pattern. The European high beam specification does permit greater intensity than the US specification.

In practice, most headlamps in the UK and Europe are aimed much lower than can be justified by any legitimate, sound safety-based reasoning; there is a glare-phobic tendency that leads countries to specify low aim angles which in turn give very short seeing distance. The reduction in glare does not compensate for this inadequate seeing distance.

The lever or dial on the dashboard is meant to compensate for passengers or cargo in the back of the car, so the lamps don't tip up and glare other drivers. The "0" position (baseline, highest aim) is where the dial is set when the vehicle's headlamp aim gets checked and adjusted -- this system is not for gaining the driver additional seeing distance on less-crowded roads. Vehicles with headlamps equipped with low-beam light sources producing more than 2000 lumens aren't allowed to have the manual dial (which most people either don't use or misuse), they have to have at least a static automatic leveling system that adjusts the lamp aim to compensate for vehicle loading. Fancier versions are dynamic rather than static, they react to the vehicle's pitch changes with acceleration, braking, road contour, etc.

None of this self-leveling equipment is required in the US or Canada, though it is permitted. There are other differences, too. "Over there" all vehicles have to have yellow rear turn signals and side turn signal repeaters and rear red fog lamps while front and rear sidemarker lights and reflectors are allowed but not mandatory; "over here" all vehicles can have yellow or red rear turn signals and repeaters and rear fog lamps are allowed but not mandatory, while front and rear sidemarker lights and reflectors are mandatory. There has been at least a nominal effort towards harmonization of the standards for many years, but the US defines "harmonization" as "the rest of the world adopts US standards", which is not an acceptable position to much of the rest of the world, which has adopted the European standards. US regulators regard the US standard as just about fully harmonized. That is, it is possible to make one headlamp (brake light, rear turn signal, front turn signal, etc.) that complies with the UN and the US standards at the same time, and it is possible to equip and configure a vehicle's lighting system in a manner that meets both standards at the same time, so there is no perceived need to further move US standards toward the international practice. And even if there were, the UN standard is not necessarily better than the US standard, or vice versa. Each standard has its deficiencies and its superiorities over the other. It probably would not be technically difficult to unify on one standard that would keep the good points and discard the bad points of the currently existing standards, but every attempt so far has failed not because of technical impossibilities but because of "philosophical differences" (a nice way of saying pissing contests and clashing egos).

Back to the subject of your headlamps: the widest lateral test points in the beam standard your Chevrolet's headlamps were built to comply with are 2 degrees down from horizontal, 15 degrees left and right (minimum 1000 candela) and 4 degrees down from horizontal, 20 degrees left and right (minimum 300 candela). That's not a whole lot of light, especially not the 300 candela value, and it's also not an extremely wide outward angle, so a headlamp that is minimally compliant with this requirement could indeed make it difficult to see around sharper curves and corners. It is worth noting that the UN (European/UK) beam specification's widest lateral test points are at just 9 degrees left and right! In both the US and rest of the world there's nothing stopping manufacturers from making headlamps that produce beams wider than the widest test points, nor stopping them from putting more light than minimally required at those points, but they are not legally obligated to do so. You raise a very good point with your observations about beam smoothness/evenness, which (yes) can be emphasized at the expense of maximum seeing distance that might be achieved if some streakiness is tolerable. These are also among the choices automakers make when they specify headlamps.

So, what is to be done about your inability to see in corners? Nothing short of visiting the dealership and having them retrofit the factory HID headlamp assemblies, which will be expensive but will wind up giving you a considerably wider beam. Next time you are in the market for a car...drive it at night, first!
 
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world.traveler

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Could you clarify one thing for me? From further reading I get the impression that the 9012 is a 55W low beam bulb and the 9011 is a 65W high beam bulb. I've no doubt got it wrong, but why is the Chevy Impala using the lower-powered 9012 bulb in a dual low/high beam application?
 
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-Virgil-

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The HIR2/9012 has a nominal rating of 55w, and the HIR1/9011 has a nominal rating of 65w, yes. But the HIR2 is not a "low beam bulb" and the HIR1 is not a "high beam bulb" in a strict sense. The HIR2 was originally designed as a high-performing bulb with long enough life to be acceptable in the much-used low beam, while the HIR1 was originally designed as a maximum-performing bulb without much regard for lifespan, acceptable in the less-used high beam. Either bulb can be designed into a low beam headlamp or a high beam headlamp or a high/low beam headlamp. The HIR2 produces less light than the HIR1, but the HIR2 does have much longer lifespan than the HIR1, so an HIR1 low beam would tend to give unacceptably short bulb life. On the other hand, HIR2 produces plenty of light to well exceed the minimum requirements for high beam intensity. Remember, HIR2 produces more light than HB3 (9005), which has been a widely-used high beam bulb for many years.

You may want to take a look at posts 9 and 11 in this thread; the upgraded bulbs available through GM's parts distribution network should improve things for you.
 

-Virgil-

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I cannot find a similar TSB for the Impala. Would the flash be specific to the trucks?

There is no flash for the Impala. Buy the improved bulbs linked in that thread, was the point.
 
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world.traveler

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I understand, and thanks for the solid feedback Virgil. I was just speculating whether the early current generation Impala (whose light beam is rather dull and yellow rather than halogen white) suffered from the same voltage malady but had insufficient attention directed to it to have the issue addressed.
 

-Virgil-

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I understand, and thanks for the solid feedback Virgil. I was just speculating whether the early current generation Impala (whose light beam is rather dull and yellow rather than halogen white) suffered from the same voltage malady but had insufficient attention directed to it to have the issue addressed.

I bet if you kneel down and put your eyes below the low-beam cutoff, you'll find the actual beam is plenty white. It would be interesting to see what voltage the bulbs are being fed, both with the sockets disconnected and (back-probed) with them plugged onto the bulbs.
 

JRMtwo

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I have a 2015 Buick Lacrosse with the projector HIR2 headlights. The lighting is not only poor but the aim of the high beams is above the horizon. I ask the dealer to correct and found out the high/low beam cannot be adjusted independently. When the high beams are lowered the low beams only illuminate a short distance ahead, clearly an unsafe condition. I notice that Philips has a 3rd generation HIR2 bulb rated 1875 lumens @13.2 volts and claim it is much better than the GM 13779204 2012 HIR2. Has anyone tried this bulb?
 

-Virgil-

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I have a 2015 Buick Lacrosse with the projector HIR2 headlights. The lighting is not only poor but the aim of the high beams is above the horizon. I ask the dealer to correct and found out the high/low beam cannot be adjusted independently.

That's correct -- as a matter of law, unless the high beams and the low beams are completely separate lamps, their aim cannot be adjusted independently.

When the high beams are lowered the low beams only illuminate a short distance ahead

There is only one correct aim setting. Guessing at what the beams look like on a wall or on the road is not useful; the aim must be checked using an optical aiming machine as described here. Sadly, even many auto dealers don't have (or don't properly use) an aiming machine, and often they don't even go through the monkey-motion of shining the beams on a wall; when a customer comes in complaining about the headlamp aim they just twiddle the aim screws whichever direction they think will get the customer out of their hair.

I notice that Philips has a 3rd generation HIR2 bulb rated 1875 lumens @13.2 volts and claim it is much better than the GM 13779204 2012 HIR2.

Judging by that "third generation" phrase, which is made up and not applicable, you have been misinformed by ignorant natter on an internet forum somewhere. 1875 lumens at 13.2v is the nominal specification for the HIR2 bulb type, contained in the regulations. The Philips HIR2 is what came in your car as factory equipment. It is a Long Life bulb (HIR2LL) which means its luminance and beam focus aren't as good as a non-LL bulb. This HIR2LL is the only variety of HIR2 made by Philips. It is better than the HIR2 bulbs that were previously manufactured by Toshiba and General Electric, but the Vosla HIR2 +30 (GM part number 23342527) has shorter lifespan than the LL bulb you have now, but also has better luminance and gives better beam focus.
 

mikered30

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This HIR2LL is the only variety of HIR2 made by Philips. It is better than the HIR2 bulbs that were previously manufactured by Toshiba and General Electric, but the Vosla HIR2 +30 (GM part number 23342527) has shorter lifespan than the LL bulb you have now, but also has better luminance and gives better beam focus.

What standard is the +30% more light from the Vosla light compared to? I didnt see much about this bulb online, except for GMC truck owners complaining about poor output and the dealer requires a BCM flash update to increase the voltage to the new Vosla bulbs on new trucks.
 
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