2007 Mustang OEM HID

Hi,

I think starting in 2007 Ford offered OEM HID's in the Mustang but they weren't inside projectors, they looked like normal headlights. I thought HID's needed to be place inside projectors to work well, how did Ford get them to work on a seemingly conventional headlight? Can anyone who has seen them in person comment on the light output and pattern?

Here's what they look like:


I want to convert mine to the OEM HID's but they are hideously expensive so I'm sticking with my stock bulbs. What's the best H13 bulb in terms of light output?

Thanks in advance for any help offered.

There are legitimate reflector-type and projector-type HID headlamps. What's important to understand is that the optic (whether it is a reflector or a projector) must be designed and intended for use with an HID light source -- it is never acceptable, safe, or legal to install an HID light source ("HID kit") into a halogen lamp of any kind. Not in a halogen reflector, not in a halogen projector -- never. The same goes for so-called "LED conversion" kits.

The Mustang BiXenon reflectors are decent, better than the halogens.

I want to convert mine to the OEM HID's but they are hideously expensive

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Perhaps you can find good used ones.

What's the best H13 bulb in terms of light output?

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Philips Xtreme Vision.

My early 2000's Acura had reflector low beam HIDs, and I think Acura kept this up for a while. They were pretty tolerable. I do find many current generation Acura's have high amounts of glare, worse in my opinion than any other OEM HID. Virgil, thoughts?

Semiman

It shouldn't come as too much of a shock to learn that there are legitimate reflector HID headlamps, considering the existence of the DxR series of arc-discharge capsules.

On another forum, someone spouted "This is why all OEM HID systems use projector beams. They have an internal shield that prevents light, even with a barrel shaped light source, from entering the glare region", and, of course, got soundly smacked down with "Then explain the D1R, D2R, D3R, and D4R bulbs. (HINT: The "R" refers to the bulb being used in a reflector assembly that is designed to use the bulb.)
Mercedes W140, W201, W210. Subaru Forester, the Lexus GS and IS, Lincoln Mark VII and Navigator, the Infiniti GX4, are among the cars that were factory-equipped with reflector-type HID headlamps as standard or optional through some or all of their production lifespan."

Some 8 years after the '07 model year, though-- now it seems that halogen has retained the lion's share of the lighting market, and LED is certainly making great progress in displacing HID.

Thanks for the info, interesting read. I've nearly given up on finding the oems at an affordable price. Even broken ones seem to cost over 400 dollars each. I think I'll give the Philips a try.

Of course legalities are very much on a country by country basis.

Chicken Drumstick said:

Of course legalities are very much on a country by country basis.

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No.

The HID and LED "kits" are illegal in every UNECE signatory country and in the Americas. About the only country where these wouldn't be illegal would be Somalia.
And even in Somalia, they wouldn't be safe or effective. There is absolutely no justification for using such a kit.

In your search for an H13 do not over look the Sylvania H13 in Silverstar Ultra. I have been using them and find that I can see more, see wider and see further than with any other bulb I have tried. It has less of the dark areas that the low beam produces.

I went from factory bulbs to Philips Xtreme Power, to Silverstar Ultra, to Xtreme Vision and back to Silverstar Ultra. According to experts here is the problem: "It's difficult to get pleasing beam focus from an H13 system, because of the inherent properties of the system. It was designed for low cost and long life, which are traditional American priorities in headlight systems. Definitely the Philips Xtreme Power H13 bulbs are the best H13 bulbs on the market, but they cannot fix bad optical focus."

The Silverstar Ultra in H13 was found in two versions of packaging. One package had bulbs that had a blue colored band on the glass. The Ultra's I purchased did not have the blue colored band. Other than this or factory HID, the addition of auxiliary lights is about all you can do.

fastgun said:

In your search for an H13 do not over look the Sylvania H13 in Silverstar Ultra. I have been using them and find that I can see more, see wider and see further than with any other bulb I have tried. It has less of the dark areas that the low beam produces.

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The Silverstar Ultra still doesn't match the Philips X-Treme Vision.

According to experts here is the problem: "It's difficult to get pleasing beam focus from an H13 system, because of the inherent properties of the system. It was designed for low cost and long life, which are traditional American priorities in headlight systems. Definitely the Philips Xtreme Power H13 bulbs are the best H13 bulbs on the market, but they cannot fix bad optical focus."

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-Virgil- said:

As with all headlamp light sources, there are certain limitations inherent in the H13 bulb design and these are amplified by the optical design choices made by the automakers and headlamp makers, but poor beam focus is not an inherent limitation to H13.

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Essentially, yes, you're at the mercy of the headlamp design itself. But not all H13 lamps have poor beam focus, and it's not a reason to prefer a bulb that has lower filament precision "because it's not going to be well-focused anyway".

I agree 100%
Such a decision in seeking a bulb to improve nightime safety should be made on what will give the best vision going down the road.

The problem with most new cars are that headlight bulb access is almost non existent. There is nothing wrong with bulbs like Philip Vision Plus and Xtreme Vision. However, their short lifespan means more frequent replacement. Imagine that one has to disconnect the battery to change a bulb or access it from the wheelwell. So we get long life bulbs because most people do not want to spend a $100 at the mechanic to change bulbs for labor. Long life bulbs in even the best reflector assemblies will not give out a nice pattern.

Chicken Drumstick said:

Of course legalities are very much on a country by country basis.

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No, they really do not. "HID kits" are illegal throughout the developed (and much of the developing) world -- including in your own UK. Enforcement varies, but legality does not -- and that is appropriate, because no matter what a law book might say, "HID kits" always destroy the safety performance of a halogen headlamp.

Keep in mind, we do not engage in "heh heh heh, check your local laws, heh heh heh, off-road use only, heh heh heh" types of games on this board. Rule 11 applies.

fastgun said:

In your search for an H13 do not over look the Sylvania H13 in Silverstar Ultra.

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Better advice: In your search for an H13, overlook the Sylvania H13 in Silverstar Ultra. Like all other blue glass "whiter light" bulbs, these produce less light than a regular H13. Sylvania recently got a 30-million-dollar spanking for the lies they were telling about "better seeing" with their Silverstar and Silverstar Ultra bulbs.

I have been using them and find that I can see more, see wider and see further

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No, you can't. Not really -- the "improvement" you think you see is an illusion.

The Silverstar Ultra in H13 was found in two versions of packaging. One package had bulbs that had a blue colored band on the glass. The Ultra's I purchased did not have the blue colored band.

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All Silverstar and Silverstar Ultra bulbs have blue glass. Some of the latest-production Ultras have a band of uncolored glass centered around the low beam filament so as to let all the light through; these are an improvement over the all-blue versions, but the output is objectively better from a bulb like the Philips Xtreme Vision which has a larger area of uncolored, clear glass. It's just simple physics; color filters block light.

-Virgil- said:

All Silverstar and Silverstar Ultra bulbs have blue glass. Some of the latest-production Ultras have a band of uncolored glass centered around the low beam filament so as to let all the light through; these are an improvement over the all-blue versions, but the output is objectively better from a bulb like the Philips Xtreme Vision which has a larger area of uncolored, clear glass. It's just simple physics; color filters block light.

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I just read the latest bulb reviews from Auto Express. Even though the Osram Nightbreakers had a bit of colored glass, it still score in the same range as the Philips. They are not available in H13 yet. The Philips +130% when it becomes available will even be better. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/76760/car-bulbs-2014-halogen-headlight-bulb-reviews

I once asked Daniel Stern about the blue band on the Philips Vision Plus. He told me not to worry about it as the blue band was far away from the filament.

crassus said:

I just read the latest bulb reviews from Auto Express. Even though the Osram Nightbreakers had a bit of colored glass, it still score in the same range as the Philips. They are not available in H13 yet.

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The Osram product line probably won't include H13 because it is almost unheard of as a headlight bulb outside North America.

The Philips +130% when it becomes available will even be better.

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Maybe, or the GE Night Hawk Xenon if it becomes available in H13.

I once asked Daniel Stern about the blue band on the Philips Vision Plus. He told me not to worry about it as the blue band was far away from the filament.

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Right, that blue band up at the tip of a bulb like the Xtreme Vision or the GE Night Hawk Xenon has no effect on the output. It's different from the bigger blue bands on bulbs like the Silverstar Ultra or (sadly to say) the Xtreme Vision +130.

Chicken Drumstick said:

Of course legalities are very much on a country by country basis.

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New Zealand, Hong Kong, Germany (a UNECE signatory nation, which includes R48) all are quite clear on "HID kits are illegal". (HID kits are illegal in ALL UNECE signatory nations. Every. Single. One.)

There's more that I found, for example, this one from the UK Department for Transport, which includes its own links to SI 1989 No. 1796 and amendments to that base regulation. On both sides of the English Channel, it's agreed that such "kits" are unsafe, and therefore have been illegalized.

Even in Malay there's a melee against unapproved HID installations. And Brazil's pursuit of order and progress includes this, which (among other items) states that the installation of an arc-discharge light source into a motor vehicle not originally equipped with one is illegal.

And, again-- even if for some reason it WERE legal in whatever deity-forsaken pit of despair one decided to move to, they are stupid to install. They do not increase performance. They do not improve safety. They do not make your car look cool. They don't whiten your teeth while you drive. There's no reason ever to get an HID or LED "kit"; and no reason to ever recommend to people that they try to circumvent the rules, law, and common sense.

Alaric Darconville said:

this one from the UK Department for Transport

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Nice find. It handily flushes the idea of the so-called legality "big grey area" right down the commode.

Even in Malay there's a melee

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Hey, you're a poet (and you didn't even know it)!

even if for some reason it WERE legal in whatever deity-forsaken pit of despair one decided to move to, they are stupid to install.

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Quite right.

-Virgil- said:

Nice find. It handily flushes the idea of the so-called legality "big grey area" right down the commode.

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Hopefully, the idea is safe for ALL septic systems, despite being unsafe for any road (and unsafe at any speed).

I just can't fathom how anyone would think it's a "big grey area". I think that's the default term for "I don't care anyway and I think I can find a lawyer to get the case thrown out" (with a helping of "FREEDOM!" thrown in as appropriate.

Hey, you're a poet (and you didn't even know it)!

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Borrowed from a friend, whose poem mentioned a "melee made in Malay". Couldn't resist using it.
For Brazil, I used their ordem e progresso as well as I could.
I'm sure I would have everyone agog had I posted a link it Tagalog, but that'd be too much effort.

Alaric Darconville said:

I just can't fathom how anyone would think it's a "big grey area".

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When I put "The legality of HID kits is a huge grey area" into Google Translate and select "Detect Language", it translates it as "Waaaaaah! Waaaaaah! You can't tell me my HID conversion is dangerous and illegal because I LIKE IT! You can't make me pay attention to facts! I'm sticking my fingers in my ears and I'm closing my eyes! Ha ha ha, now I can't hear you or see you! Nanny-nanny-billygoat, Pbtbtbtbtbtbt!".

I guess the original phrase must be idiomatic, because Google returns that same result for "Legalities are very much on a country by country basis" and "I can assure you that there is no explicit legislation to make them illegal".

NHTSA seems to be stricter on original equipment than UNECE. In the US will title 49 allow something as basic as changing original factory acetylene lamps on something such as Model T's to electric lamps?