16340- Lacking MORE than just capacity.

I have three lights that take this battery. S10[Olight], PD12vn and a D25Cvn.

I have used a Nitecore 16340[NL166?] and Kinoko IMR 16340 for my S10. After about 6 months the N'Core would not have a resting voltage of more than 4.10v.

The Kinoko were not much better. After about the same time their resting voltage was no better with a resting voltage after charge of 4.12/4.13v. I tried one of the Kinokos that was still taking a full charge and it could not sustain max in my modded D25C2 light for more than 20/25 seconds!

So this is where the Efest IMR 16340 700mAh comes in. I bought 5 of them at the end of September. They are able to sustain max until step down and able to repeat the process when light cools. However, I have noticed in the last 2 weeks or so that they are not able to take a full charge and their resting voltage after charge is b/w 4.11 and 4.14v on Two of them. The other Two are ~ 4.14/17v resting voltage after charge. The 5th One I have not used yet! They are still performing well it just seems apparent that they are also losing ability to take a full charge.

I realize that these are little batteries with lower capacity. What is disappointing is that in both my stock light [S10] and my modded lights they ALL seem to lose the ability to take a FULL charge in a relatively short time.They definitely seem like they lack any reasonable kind of longevity.

I have Four Orbtronic 18650 3400mAh batteries that are two[2] years old and been charged/discharged 140+ times that still take close to a full charge[4.17 to 4.20v].These were used in my TK75/TK75vn for most of those Two years.Might not be a fair comparison but the only one I have!

18650 have always been my favorite and most of my lights take them. I have kind of stayed away from 16340 lights since my S10. That being said I realized that when I got the PD12vn and the D25Cvn my run times were going to be even shorter. I did not expect what appears to be battery life that will also be much shorter!

I guess I have to accept besides the obvious of Low capacity[mAh] due to size, they also seem to LACK LONGEVITY in retaining their capacity due to ?

So, what is everyone elses experience w/ these batteries? Is this the norm? I have a feeling it is!

My experience has been a little better. How low do you discharge and how quickly do you charge? Charging quickly is key for IMRs.

yoyoman said:

My experience has been a little better. How low do you discharge and how quickly do you charge? Charging quickly is key for IMRs.

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The D25Cvn only has about 12 min. max run time! So as soon as it gets ~ 3.6/3.7v I put it on the charger and pop another one in.

The S10 is not used as much. I may only charge that twice a week.

It is RARE that any of mine get below 3.5V. Most times they are charged b/w 3.6/3.8v.

I forgot!! I am mostly using the ARE-C2 which charges an 18650 in ~3 hours and a 16340 in about 45 min to an hour. My I4 takes about 8 hours to charge an 18650

EDIT: When you say, "How quickly do you charge"? Do you mean how quickly do I charge them AFTER discharge? Or how quickly does the charger charge them?!


Also, what exactly do you mean when you say,"Charging quickly is the key?!"

I forgot about that! The faster charging may certainly have something to do with it. On the other hand my N'Core NL166 16340 was only charged on the I4 and started faltering early on?

They are what they are. Batteries and cells are consumable objects and need to be replaced. I got ~2 months out of a Soshine/Orbtronics 16340 li-co and my Kinokos, while still working well, don't seem like they'll be as long lived as my AW IMRs and ICRs.

For the 16340 form factor, I'm going to be sticking with AW from here on out, unless I have no choice.

Honestly, if you're running these little cells in some lights that are probably hitting 3A, your cells aren't going to last that long, IMO.

It's akin to redlining your car engine every time you drive and then complaining that you didn't make it to 100,000 miles.

Chris

It is what it is! I realize that . It just verifies how superior 18650's are to 16340's.

ALL my genuine Panasonic 18650's are still going strong,,some are 1 year old some are 2 years old. Not only is it more capacity[which is no fault of the smaller 16340] it is a superior battery IMO! :thumbsup:

As I indicated in OP,,,I used these batteries in STOCK lights and modded,,,,,,,,,,,basically getting the same results.

I have done the same w/ 18650's in modded lights and they are still performing well. I guess that is my point.

Capolini said:

It is what it is! I realize that . It just verifies how superior 18650's are to 16340's.

ALL my genuine Panasonic 18650's are still going strong,,some are 1 year old some are 2 years old. Not only is it more capacity[which is no fault of the smaller 16340] it is a superior battery IMO! :thumbsup:

As I indicated in OP,,,I used these batteries in STOCK lights and modded,,,,,,,,,,,basically getting the same results.

I have done the same w/ 18650's in modded lights and they are still performing well. I guess that is my point.

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If I want to carry a light the size of a lady's lipstick, like my V11R and D25C clicky, the 18650 is the wrong cell for that application and isn't superior to the 16340.

Like anything in life, it's 'the right tool for the right job' that we need to be focused on.

Another issue that you're glossing over is one of manufacture. None of the Big 5: LG, Sanyo, Sony, Samsung and Panasonic make the 16340 sized cell. We're stuck with Chinese makers, so you're not comparing apples to apples, in my mind.

If we could buy 16340s made by any of the Big 5, your concerns might be mitigated a bit.

Chris

ChrisGarrett said:

If I want to carry a light the size of a lady's lipstick, like my V11R and D25C clicky, the 18650 is the wrong cell for that application and isn't superior to the 16340.

Chris

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Unless you have a ZL SC62

Charles L. said:

Unless you have a ZL SC62

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+1 I have this light,my favorite EDC!

ChrisGarrett said:

If I want to carry a light the size of a lady's lipstick, like my V11R and D25C clicky, the 18650 is the wrong cell for that application and isn't superior to the 16340.

Like anything in life, it's 'the right tool for the right job' that we need to be focused on.

Another issue that you're glossing over is one of manufacture. None of the Big 5: LG, Sanyo, Sony, Samsung and Panasonic make the 16340 sized cell. We're stuck with Chinese makers, so you're not comparing apples to apples, in my mind.

If we could buy 16340s made by any of the Big 5, your concerns might be mitigated a bit.

Chris

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I have NO control on who makes these batteries! Just stating/sharing the facts with the ones that I have used and are available.

Capolini said:

It is what it is! I realize that . It just verifies how superior 18650's are to 16340's.

ALL my genuine Panasonic 18650's are still going strong,,some are 1 year old some are 2 years old. Not only is it more capacity[which is no fault of the smaller 16340] it is a superior battery IMO! :thumbsup:

Click to expand...

ChrisGarrett said:

Another issue that you're glossing over is one of manufacture. None of the Big 5: LG, Sanyo, Sony, Samsung and Panasonic make the 16340 sized cell. We're stuck with Chinese makers, so you're not comparing apples to apples, in my mind.

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This is likely alot of the issue here. I don't use 16340s. But I actually had a couple of Kinoko 14500s. One of them developed a bulge near the positive terminal and eventually started leaking within a few months after I got it. The other is OKAY. But admittedly, I don't use it much. I generally stick with my Sanyo UR14500s, which are FAR better cells than the Kinokos. In the end, the fact that good quality 14500s are available (and not good quality 16340s) is one more reason why, if you want a REALLY small light, you are better off using 14500/AA lights than 16340/CR123a lights.

Just to be clear! In regards to Longevity and reliability the 18650 is superior to the 16340. It is a battery comparison regardless of who makes them.

I will agree that the 14500 is a better choice than the 16340. that is why I got an extension for my V11R!

The best thing about all of this[regardless of opinion] is that we ALL have a choice and we can take the good w/ the bad! :santa:

The Efest 550 maH is supposed to be a high drain cell able to deliver 5 amps or so says Illumn.
The other cells spoken of are only rated for a maximum of 2C or for a 700 maH cell is only 1.4 amps.
If you were running a stock light the 16340/RCR123 would probably be fine.

Capolini said:

Just to be clear! In regards to Longevity and reliability the 18650 is superior to the 16340. It is a battery comparison regardless of who makes them.

I will agree that the 14500 is a better choice than the 16340. that is why I got an extension for my V11R!

The best thing about all of this[regardless of opinion] is that we ALL have a choice and we can take the good w/ the bad! :santa:

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Oh well...I tried.

You seem to be arguing that a 'quart' is inferior to a 'gallon,' because it only has a quarter of the capacity of a gallon.

You've got 3 lights that use the 16340, will you be selling them shortly?

Chris

ChrisGarrett said:

Oh well...I tried.

You seem to be arguing that a 'quart' is inferior to a 'gallon,' because it only has a quarter of the capacity of a gallon.

You've got 3 lights that use the 16340, will you be selling them shortly?

Chris

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What don't you understand here?! I am NOT arguing about capacity!! That is common sense. I am saying as a "Battery" the 18650 is more reliable and appears to have much more longevity in terms of length of "overall" use. Meaning years NOT months! Kind of simple isn't it?

NoNotAgain said:

The Efest 550 maH is supposed to be a high drain cell able to deliver 5 amps or so says Illumn.
The other cells spoken of are only rated for a maximum of 2C or for a 700 maH cell is only 1.4 amps.
If you were running a stock light the 16340/RCR123 would probably be fine.

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The Efest cell I was talking about is rated at 9A continuous discharge. That is not my complaint. It seems that ALL[regardless of brand] of them seem to degrade quickly.

Description below:


Efest IMR 16340, LiMn 700mAh Battery, Button Top
These are rechargeable eFest brand LiMn2O4 (commonly referred to as Lithium Manganese or LiMn) batteries. They are safer chemically than Li-Ion batteries and do not need a protection circuit. These cells can handle high amperage and are safe in series or in parallel. They can be charged with any Li-Ion battery charger with an output of 4.2V. These have a button top. Battery cover may vary but the batteries are always high quality and accurately rated. Price is for one (1) battery. They are 3.7V batteries that are rated for 700mAh.
Quick Specs:
Maximum Continuous Discharge Rate: 9A
Maximum Continuous Charging Rate: 1.2A
Chemistry: Li-MN
Rated Capacity: 700mAh
Rated Voltage: 3.7V
Diameter: 16mm
Height: 35mm

For lights ~ the size of the 16340 lights, I like to go up a smidge to the 18350 IMR sized versions.

The 18350 lights I have have taken the place of most of my 16340 versions. The power and capacity improvements make it worth it to me at least.

Capolini said:

What don't you understand here?! I am NOT arguing about capacity!! That is common sense. I am saying as a "Battery" the 18650 is more reliable and appears to have much more longevity in terms of length of "overall" use. Meaning years NOT months! Kind of simple isn't it?

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They're not MORE reliable in my experience.

You're the only one stating that the 18650 is more reliable. I've been using my AW IMRs and ICRs that I bought in August of 2012 and they're still charging up to 4.15v-4.17v on my Xtar VP2. The Kinokos are about the same now, but I got them only this past April and they have far fewer cycles on them and they've only been charged up at 250mA.

Heck, I was even charging up my AWs at 500mA for the first 2+ years, until I got the VP2, so that has probably hurt them to a minor degree.

For me, they have (almost, Soshine) been as reliable as any of my 18650s (and even my 14500s,) but I try and buy good cells and I don't really run my cells in over-driven lights, like you seem to do.

Do you understand my position now?

Anyhow, I'm done with this thread. I like the 16340 cells, I like lights that take the 16340 cells and I'll continue using only the AW cells in the future, since for me, they are reliable.

Chris

ChrisGarrett said:

They're not MORE reliable in my experience.

You're the only one stating that the 18650 is more reliable. I've been using my AW IMRs and ICRs that I bought in August of 2012 and they're still charging up to 4.15v-4.17v on my Xtar VP2. The Kinokos are about the same now, but I got them only this past April and they have far fewer cycles on them and they've only been charged up at 250mA.

Heck, I was even charging up my AWs at 500mA for the first 2+ years, until I got the VP2, so that has probably hurt them to a minor degree.

For me, they have (almost, Soshine) been as reliable as any of my 18650s (and even my 14500s,) but I try and buy good cells and I don't really run my cells in over-driven lights, like you seem to do.

Do you understand my position now?

Anyhow, I'm done with this thread. I like the 16340 cells, I like lights that take the 16340 cells and I'll continue using only the AW cells in the future, since for me, they are reliable.

Chris

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ok,One last question,not battery related!

What prompted/motivated you to use Mohammed Saeed Al-Sahaf[Baghdad Bob] as your "Avatar"? I am not sure if it is a joke or if you admire him!

For those who do not know he was the Iraqi Information Minister during the Iraq/US War.

I use AW ICR 16340 black (protected) and they have held up well - some are several years old and still take almost a full charge (4.18V). However they are listed as 750 mAh and HKJ's testing shows their real capacity is closer to 500. I'm switching over to AW IMR 16340 - basically the same capacity and the ability to handle higher drain. 18350 are even better, but they don't fit into all my lights.

You caught me on my use of "quickly." Both uses are true, IMO - charge them soon after they've been depleted and don't charge them too fast. I believe the rule of thumb is 0.6C.