The Official Zebralight Thread .

[Tachead]

The increased lux per lumen of the HI might be throwing off your perception? It's the lux that hurts your eyes...

Yep, lights with a tighter hotspot always appear brighter then they are.

Really, moonlight modes aside, the HI is not a great choice for close range tasks or especially a bed side light imo(just basing this on reviews and beamshots as mine isn't here yet). I have heard more then one person complain about it having too tight/intense of a hotspot for many closer range tasks or even to be a great all around light. I think it is more of niche light best suited to outdoor use.

[holygeez03]

The best nightstand light: H502c

[Tachead]

Can I bother you to do a few beam shot comparisons between the c&d? I have seen the ones out there but I have the H600fc mk3 and want to get the mk4. I like the CCT of 4500 and went for the "c" at 4000 but maybe I should go for the "d" at 5000... I am prob going to sell the mk3, but getting both the c&d is not really an option right now.

Do you mean against a white wall or?

I can tell you that, personally, I think the Fd(5000K) is best for daytime use for supplemental light. Imo it is too cool for use at night both indoors and outdoors. I do love it however for daytime use and I use it for various tasks during the day.

You might want to decide based on where/when you use your headlamp the most. For instance, for camping and/or nightime hiking the Fc(4000K) is the best choice imo as it is warm and calming and matches the moonlight well. It also isn't a harsh contrast compared to a campfire like the Fd is. The Fc is also best if you use it at night indoors as it is closer to the 2700 - 3000K indoor lighting most people use in their living rooms and bedrooms. It will also wake you up less and cause less sleep disturbance if used near or during bedtime.

[Tachead]

The best nightstand light: H502c

There is a H502c L2 on my nightstand right now lol. I use it mainly for reading in bed though and generally prefer a regular flashlight to an angle light/headlamp for a general purpose nightstand light. My SC64c has been getting used lately and works quite well. My benchmark in the past was an Astrolux A01 Nichia 219B SW40(4000K) R9050.

Do you have the H502c or H502c L2?

[WalkIntoTheLight]

Yep, lights with a tighter hotspot always appear brighter then they are.

It's possible that it's partially due to perception, but certainly not all. There's no doubt it is much brighter than the earlier zebralights with the same ~ 0.07 lumens claimed in the specs.

Really, moonlight modes aside, the HI is not a great choice for close range tasks or especially a bed side light imo(just basing this on reviews and beamshots as mine isn't here yet). I have heard more then one person complain about it having too tight/intense of a hotspot for many closer range tasks or even to be a great all around light. I think it is more of niche light best suited to outdoor use.

Yes, I got it for outdoors, but since it's my latest light, I have to try it out everywhere!

Besides, I don't use it to directly illuminate stuff in the middle of the night. I use it ceiling-bounced. Still too bright.

[Tachead]

Yes, I got it for outdoors, but since it's my latest light, I have to try it out everywhere!

Besides, I don't use it to directly illuminate stuff in the middle of the night. I use it ceiling-bounced. Still too bright.

I totally understand. I often use a new light in the kitchen and bathroom in the evening instead of the AC lighting. I think it drives my GF nuts. She sometimes comes in, flicks the AC light on, and rolls her eyes. That's ok, I roll mine too when she comes home with another ridiculously expensive piece of hand made pottery.

Yeah, ceiling bouncing helps a bit but, not if it is too bright.

[snowlover91]

Yep, lights with a tighter hotspot always appear brighter then they are.

Really, moonlight modes aside, the HI is not a great choice for close range tasks or especially a bed side light imo(just basing this on reviews and beamshots as mine isn't here yet). I have heard more then one person complain about it having too tight/intense of a hotspot for many closer range tasks or even to be a great all around light. I think it is more of niche light best suited to outdoor use.

I use my MK3 HI for plenty of indoor tasks without issue. It frequently goes into my “around the house” rotation and as a bedside light too. I will say for close range tasks you have to have it on a lower setting but it does a very good job.

I find the frosted lens ZL I have is actually worse for close range tasks if I’m not pointing the light directly away from me since the light scatters out to the sides. I was working on my car last night, set the frosted lens ZL down to shine on what I was trying to fix and the glare from it was almost unbearable. I believe it’s the MK3 Plus Fd model I have. I also noticed the lens has cracked, not sure but I think my 2 year old daughter got ahold of it... and it’s been through a few wash/dry cycles too.

[noboneshotdog]

I had a dream last night that I received a new SC600 MKIV in the mail. Upon opening the box an accessory pack fell out. It had a second tailcap with a spring as well as a drop in spring adapter for the positive contact.

I was so excited in my dream to report my new findings. Oh well. It was only a dream. What a great dream.

[Tachead]

I use my MK3 HI for plenty of indoor tasks without issue. It frequently goes into my “around the house” rotation and as a bedside light too. I will say for close range tasks you have to have it on a lower setting but it does a very good job.

I find the frosted lens ZL I have is actually worse for close range tasks if I’m not pointing the light directly away from me since the light scatters out to the sides. I was working on my car last night, set the frosted lens ZL down to shine on what I was trying to fix and the glare from it was almost unbearable. I believe it’s the MK3 Plus Fd model I have. I also noticed the lens has cracked, not sure but I think my 2 year old daughter got ahold of it... and it’s been through a few wash/dry cycles too.

Yeah, I am sure it will still work but, it is definitely not ideal. I have heard several people say the HI does not have the best beam profile for an all around light. Personally I don't like a tight defined hotspot for many tasks, especially indoor ones. When it comes to reflector based lights, I think the SC63/64 series has a great beam profile for an all around light. It strikes a good balance between flood and throw with its large hotspot, corona, and bright spill.

Yep, glare can start to be an issue with some designs and uses. I find this can be a problem with some lanterns.

I look forward to putting the MKIV HI through its paces when it gets here and I will post my impressions once I use it for a bit.

[lampeDépêche]

Yeah, I am sure it will still work but, it is definitely not ideal. I have heard several people say the HI does not have the best beam profile for an all around light. Personally I don't like a tight defined hotspot for many tasks, especially indoor ones.

Yeah, I think that's probably right. The Mk III HI is certainly not a thrower (esp. if you hang around Vinh's site!), but it is on the throwy side of an ideal all-purpose light. I wonder how its profile compares to some other popular EDCs like the Malkoff or HDS--probably not a lot throwier than they are, given the size of their reflectors.

Anyhow--I basically agree with you. For indoor stuff, I am more likely to reach for my H52w, which I always have, or even my H502w, which I often have. The MkIII HI is a better outdoor light (as well as a better 1000 lumen light, which the AA-models cannot do of course).

Somebody said that the H502 is the ideal bed-side light? I almost agree, but not quite: for tip-toeing around at night and keeping the wife and kids asleep, I want something with a more shrouded beam. I do love the quality of the H502w's light--love love that pure mule wall of light, like being in an even bubble of illuminated glow. And it is certainly true that lower lux is the key to preserving night-vision. (Strictly speaking, "moonlight" started as a measure of lux, not lumens. On a moonlit night with no other light around, the moon is still bombarding you with millions--maybe billions!--of lumens! But they are spread out over such a wide area that the lux is very low.)

But I also want to keep the light out of my wife's eyes. So the narrower beams are better for not bothering other people.

[holygeez03]

My H502c is so old that it doesn't even have the "ribs" on the outside of the tube... My H52Fw is also "smooth walled"... I assume they are both very early production models. I prefer this style.

My H502c sits on my nightstand, in a little wood-block holder I made to make it more stable... almost every evening, I turn it on to the 0.04lm mode before it gets dark... then when I go to bed there is just enough light to navigate and I can turn it off from bed. If I need to navigate in the middle of the night, I turn it on to 0.04 and sometimes wall-bounce the 2lm mode if needed... I replace the AA every few months (or less frequently).

I travel with the H52Fw and use it in a similar manner where ever I am staying... especially useful since I don't always know where the lights are and the light sources are usually way too bright anyway.

It appears the H52w and Fw are no longer available and the other H52's are being clearanced... which means there will be soon be no AA-sized ZL headlamp that can hit 500 lumens? That's a shame...

[lampeDépêche]

I travel with the H52Fw and use it in a similar manner where ever I am staying... especially useful since I don't always know where the lights are and the light sources are usually way too bright anyway.

We could be twins. I *love* knowing that no matter what hotel, what city, what country I wake up in, I will have light right there, under my control. No matter whether I need to get up and pee, or have to get up for a fire alarm (as has happened to me in hotels!), I will have the light I need.

I agree that it's a shame that ZL changed the drivers in their headlamps. I guess I sort of understood why they switched to the low-voltage driver for the SC5 series--that is a very impressive trick to get circa 500 lumens from an eneloop (though I have never purchased one).

But with the H53 series, they don't have either of the good features--they don't have the high-voltage driver that can run from 3.7v Li-Ion cells, and they don't have the SC5-style driver that can get 500 lumens from an eneloop.

How often do I use my H52w on the H1 burst-mode? Not super often, true, and never for long. But I do use it now and then, and I really like having it available.
(Ask a fighter pilot: "how often do you use afterburner? Not much, right, and not for very long? So you won't mind if we leave it out of the next version of your jet, right?")

[WalkIntoTheLight]

Anyhow--I basically agree with you. For indoor stuff, I am more likely to reach for my H52w, which I always have, or even my H502w, which I often have. The MkIII HI is a better outdoor light (as well as a better 1000 lumen light, which the AA-models cannot do of course).

I like throwers for indoor tail-standing. The lower brightness of spill keeps stray light out of your eyes better.

Strictly speaking, "moonlight" started as a measure of lux, not lumens. On a moonlit night with no other light around, the moon is still bombarding you with millions--maybe billions!--of lumens! But they are spread out over such a wide area that the lux is very low.

Totally OT, but let's calculate it:


Intensity of sunlight at moon's distance from sun: 120000 lux
Radius of moon: 1737000 meters
Cross-sectional area of moon = pi * 1737000^2 = 9.48 * 10^12
Albedo of moon: 0.12
Effective lumens reflected: 0.12 * 9.48*10^12 * 120000 = 1.36*10^17


So, over a hundred quadrillion lumens!


Not bad, but the sun is about 4 * 10^28 lumens, so a little brighter.

It appears the H52w and Fw are no longer available and the other H52's are being clearanced... which means there will be soon be no AA-sized ZL headlamp that can hit 500 lumens? That's a shame...

Zebralight has also stopped supporting 14500 cells in their small AA lights (the SC53), so we don't have any small AA lights that do 500 lumens either. The SC5 will do it, but it's quite a bit fatter than the SC52. I keep a 14500 in one of my SC52's, for a bright pocket-light.

[Tachead]

Here are some more pics of custom deep carry titanium clips for you guys. I am definitely considering ordering one to try on my SC64's.

[lampeDépêche]

Totally OT, but let's calculate it:


Intensity of sunlight at moon's distance from sun: 120000 lux
Radius of moon: 1737000 meters
Cross-sectional area of moon = pi * 1737000^2 = 9.48 * 10^12
Albedo of moon: 0.12
Effective lumens reflected: 0.12 * 9.48*10^12 * 120000 = 1.36*10^17


So, over a hundred quadrillion lumens!

I love it! Thanks so much for doing this.

"My pocket flashlight has a moonlight mode."
"Really?!?! It can put out one hundred quadrillion lumens??"

Okay, since you are good at Fermi-estimations, maybe I can ask you to take it one step further:

The number you produced is the moon's output. What about the amount of light from the moon that hits the earth?

For simplicity, suppose that the amount you calculated is distributed evenly over a half-sphere facing the sun. Now imagine that the earth is somewhere in that half-sphere, seeing a full moon. What portion of that half-sphere does the earth subtend? (I'm guessing this will be in steradians, or some other ungodly unit I don't understand).

Very crude ball-parking: Wiki tells me that it would take about 200k copies of the moon (viewed from the earth) to cover the entire celestial sphere (viewed from the earth). The earth will look bigger from the moon than the moon does from the earth, so suppose it will take about 100k copies of the earth to cover the celestial sphere viewed from the moon. Which means about 50k earth-discs in the half-sphere of the sun's reflection. So let's take the total reflective output of the moon (as you calculated) and divide it by 50k, to get a *very* crude ball park for the amount of moonlight falling on the earth during a full moon.

So about 2 trillion lumens? That's an approximation of the amount of moonlight that falls on the earth during a full moon. A lot of lumens.

[WalkIntoTheLight]

I love it! Thanks so much for doing this.

"My pocket flashlight has a moonlight mode."
"Really?!?! It can put out one hundred quadrillion lumens??"

Okay, since you are good at Fermi-estimations, maybe I can ask you to take it one step further:

The number you produced is the moon's output. What about the amount of light from the moon that hits the earth?

Okay, a rough calculation:


Distance of moon from earth: 384400 km
Effective surface area of a sphere at that distance
= 4 * pi * 384000^2 = 1.85 * 10^12 sq km


But since the "full moon" is only shining back light over half a sphere, make that 9.26 * 10^11 sq km


Earth radius: 6371 km
Cross-sectional area of earth = pi * 6371^2 = 1.28 * 10^8 sq km


Ratio of cross section to light "surface" = 1.376 * 10^-4


So, lumens hitting earth is (1.36 * 10^17) * (1.376 * 10^-4) = 1.87 * 10^13


That's about 19 trillion lumens worth of "energy" hitting earth from the full moon. Note, it is significantly less at times other than full moon.


Anyway, that assumes I didn't get something wrong.

[lampeDépêche]

Okay, a rough calculation:

...That's about 19 trillion lumens worth of "energy" hitting earth from the full moon.

We started from pretty different starting data, and produced results within *just* one order of magnitude apart from each other (2 vs. 19).

That's pretty good!

I think it justifies the summary claim, "during a full moon, the earth is being hit by trillions, possibly tens of trillions, of lumens of moonlight."

ETA: Then mark6r says, "meh--trillions of lumens, but lousy tint!"

[tech25]

Do you mean against a white wall or?

I can tell you that, personally, I think the Fd(5000K) is best for daytime use for supplemental light. Imo it is too cool for use at night both indoors and outdoors. I do love it however for daytime use and I use it for various tasks during the day.

You might want to decide based on where/when you use your headlamp the most. For instance, for camping and/or nightime hiking the Fc(4000K) is the best choice imo as it is warm and calming and matches the moonlight well. It also isn't a harsh contrast compared to a campfire like the Fd is. The Fc is also best if you use it at night indoors as it is closer to the 2700 - 3000K indoor lighting most people use in their living rooms and bedrooms. It will also wake you up less and cause less sleep disturbance if used near or during bedtime.

I mostly use my fc indoors. For daytime when I need a headlamp I have never had a problem with the fc. I guess the fc is the best for me, just if you have a few comparison shots for color (not a white wall) real useage, I would appreciate it.

I just compared it to my PK PR-1 that has a cool tint (bluish) which for some reason doesn't bother me too much. Now I'm back to the fd as a new light...

[WalkIntoTheLight]

I think it justifies the summary claim, "during a full moon, the earth is being hit by trillions, possibly tens of trillions, of lumens of moonlight."

ETA: Then mark6r says, "meh--trillions of lumens, but lousy tint!"

Lol. Yeah, but good luck to him if he tries to return the moon.

I can see it on a T-shirt: "My lover promised me the moon and stars, but all I got was this lousy tint!"

[Tachead]

I mostly use my fc indoors. For daytime when I need a headlamp I have never had a problem with the fc. I guess the fc is the best for me, just if you have a few comparison shots for color (not a white wall) real useage, I would appreciate it.

I just compared it to my PK PR-1 that has a cool tint (bluish) which for some reason doesn't bother me too much. Now I'm back to the fd as a new light...

I don't have any already taken but, I will take a couple when I get a chance.

[likethevegetable]

Here are some more pics of custom deep carry titanium clips for you guys. I am definitely considering ordering one to try on my SC64's.

Tac, these clips are bad-ass!

Do you know of any similar clip-on types (rather than screws), for say, an H600x or H53x?

[Tachead]

Tac, these clips are bad-ass!

Do you know of any similar clip-on types (rather than screws), for say, an H600x or H53x?

Yep, they are pretty sweet. I couldn't resist and ordered 2 different types of clips. Both will be custom made to my specs. I will post picks when they get here but, it will be a while as it takes a month or so to make them plus shipping time.

I don't know about any custom options for the headlamps but, the best clip I have found for the H600 series is the Nitecore MH style clip. It fits perfectly like it was made for them. They can be found here(Type B are the ones)...

http://www.nitecorestore.com/Pocket-...p-nitecore.htm

[likethevegetable]

Yep, they are pretty sweet. I couldn't resist and ordered 2 different types of clips. Both will be custom made to my specs. I will post picks when they get here but, it will be a while as it takes a month or so to make them plus shipping time.

I don't know about any custom options for the headlamps but, the best clip I have found for the H600 series is the Nitecore MH style clip. It fits perfectly like it was made for them. They can be found here(Type B are the ones)...

http://www.nitecorestore.com/Pocket-...p-nitecore.htm

Thanks for the link. I purchased some AT Wizard clips but they are extremely tight and too fat for my H53c (made a huge scratch, oops), will take a grinder to it and file it down, might even try to open them it up a bit (method TBD). I don't mind the stock H53 clip as it rides down to the tailcap, but I will definitely want something deep carry for the H600. I have an old Thrunite clip that I think will work as well.

[archimedes]

....

I think it justifies the summary claim, "during a full moon, the earth is being hit by trillions, possibly tens of trillions, of lumens of moonlight."

ETA: Then mark6r says, "meh--trillions of lumens, but lousy tint!"

Ok, yes, this made me laugh

[Tachead]

Thanks for the link. I purchased some AT Wizard clips but they are extremely tight and too fat for my H53c (made a huge scratch, oops), will take a grinder to it and file it down, might even try to open them it up a bit (method TBD). I don't mind the stock H53 clip as it rides down to the tailcap, but I will definitely want something deep carry for the H600. I have an old Thrunite clip that I think will work as well.

No problem👍.

Yeah, the Armytek ones don't fit well. They are too wide for the clip channel ZL uses. The Nitecore one fits perfectly into the channel and are deep carry.

[Tachead]

Ok, yes, this made me laugh

Me too☺️.

[lampeDépêche]

Me too☺️.

Hey, glad to provide a moment of comedy in your day.

Mark6r--you know we love, you, right?

[snowlover91]

Yeah, I am sure it will still work but, it is definitely not ideal. I have heard several people say the HI does not have the best beam profile for an all around light. Personally I don't like a tight defined hotspot for many tasks, especially indoor ones. When it comes to reflector based lights, I think the SC63/64 series has a great beam profile for an all around light. It strikes a good balance between flood and throw with its large hotspot, corona, and bright spill.

Yep, glare can start to be an issue with some designs and uses. I find this can be a problem with some lanterns.

I look forward to putting the MKIV HI through its paces when it gets here and I will post my impressions once I use it for a bit.

I suppose it all comes down to personal preference since the MK3 HI I have works better for me as an all around light than most of my other ones. It’s not an EDC light for me but around the house it’s great indoors, outdoors and for up close tasks for me. To each his own

[WalkIntoTheLight]

It's only been a week, and my MkIV HI honeymoon is over. It's a great light, but I'm mainly using it just for outdoor stuff, which is why I got it.

I'm back to the SC52w for indoors (love the flood). I'm trying out the SC5w again for a night-light (good low for middle of the night, and a large base with low center of gravity makes for really easy tail-standing). The MkIV HI is just too bright for a night-light.

[recDNA]

It's only been a week, and my MkIV HI honeymoon is over. It's a great light, but I'm mainly using it just for outdoor stuff, which is why I got it.

I'm back to the SC52w for indoors (love the flood). I'm trying out the SC5w again for a night-light (good low for middle of the night, and a large base with low center of gravity makes for really easy tail-standing). The MkIV HI is just too bright for a night-light.

The MKIV HI about 15k cd?