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Thread: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    This is a fairly common question asked on CPF

    Let`s make this thread a help and guide line for (new) users to see what charger fits eneloops.

    Not sure if your charger works well for eneloops?
    Please Ask your "eneloop" Charger Questions here, as well as giving your suggestions/reviews.


    Please NOTE:
    Panasonic recommends to use their own Panasonic eneloop chargers for all eneloop batteries.


    Other recommended chargers for eneloop:


    1. Maha MH C9000 analyzer (review) (discussion thread) $50 +/-
    2. SkyRC NC2500 bluetooth analyzer (review) (discussion thread) $80 +/-
    3. SkyRC MC3000 (not yet available, see discussion thread) price: 100+?
    4. Opus BT C3100/3400 analyzer also for LiIon (review) $40 +/-
    5. Technoline/Voltcraft/Lacrosse BC700 BC900 BC1000 $35+



    Basically its best to stay away from Timer-Based chargers!
    Timer based chargers will charge the batteries for a certain amount of time, without being "smart" enough to see if the battery is full. This can result in Over-Charger which hurts the quality of the batteries.

    Basically the recommended chargers are "Smart" chargers!
    Smart chargers can detect whether a cell is full.


    Below an overview of the Panasonic chargers, old and new. The new chargers are marked with the BQ code.



    BQ-CC11 BQ-CC16 BQ-CC17 BQ-CC21 BG-CC22 BQ-CC23 BQ-CC24 BQ-CC25 MQH03
    Battery fitment 4 cells 4 cells 4 cells 4 cells 4 cells 2 cells 2 cells 4+2*1 4 cells
    AAA 1-4 1-4 1-4 1-4 1-4 1-2 1-2 1-4 1-4
    AA 1-4 1-4 1-4 1-4 1-4 1-2 1-2 1-4 1-4
    C - - - - - - - 1-4 -
    D - - - - - - - 1-4 -
    9V*1 - - - - - - - 1-2 -
    Smart charge Smart Smart Smart Smart Smart Smart -(timer) - Smart
    Charge time
    Fast charge*2 1-2 AA or AAA 2 hours 2 hours - 2 hours 4 hours 4 hours *3 6 hours 1 hour
    normal charge 4 hours 4 hours 5-8 hours 4 hours 8 hours 8 hours 7 hours 6 hours 2 hours
    Zero Power consumption *4 yes ? ? - - - - - ?
    Voltage 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240, 12v DC
    Available in: Japan Japan Japan Japan Japan Japan
    Plus: US plug US plug US plug US plug US plug US plug




    *1 BQ-C25 is a multi battery charger, and can charge 9V batteries, 2 in total.

    *2 Fast charging can only be done with 2 cells. and not with 4 at the same time.
    *3 the BQ-CC24 is a timer based charger especially for eneloop Lite, therefore its not recommended to use with standard eneloops.
    *4 zero power consumption is that the charger will use less than 0.005 watt when not in use, according to IEC62301 it qualifies for Zero Power Consumption.
    PDF info link
    Last edited by ChibiM; 01-09-2015 at 04:53 AM.
    Eneloop info thread 2005-2017 @CPF


  2. #2
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    If anybody has a list of the currently available Panasonic Eneloop chargers overseas, feel free to post it here...
    even the older Sanyo chargers, as long as you can provide some important info, like charge currents/single or multi cell charger/pair charging necessary?/
    Last edited by ChibiM; 01-08-2015 at 06:58 AM.
    Eneloop info thread 2005-2017 @CPF


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    Flashaholic* Grijon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Great idea and very cool, ChibiM; thank you, you're awesome!

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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Good idea! I add the BQ-CC17 charger (available now with Costco bundles), and the Sanyo MQH03 charger (included with bundles years ago, and is the fastest charger of the bunch).



    BQ-CC11 BQ-CC17 BQ-CC21 BG-CC22 BQ-CC23 BQ-CC24 BQ-CC25 MQH03
    Battery fitment 4 cells 4 cells 4 cells 4 cells 2 cells 2 cells 4+2*1 4 cells
    AAA 1-4 1-4 1-4 1-4 1-2 1-2 1-4 1-4
    AA 1-4 1-4 1-4 1-4 1-2 1-2 1-4 1-4
    C - - - - - - 1-4 -
    D - - - - - - 1-4 -
    9V*1 - - - - - - 1-2 -
    Smart charge Smart Smart Smart Smart Smart -(timer) - Smart
    Charge time
    Fast charge*2 1-2 AA or AAA 2 hours - 2 hours 4 hours 4 hours *3 6 hours 1 hour
    normal charge 4 hours 5-8 hours 4 hours 8 hours 8 hours 7 hours 6 hours 2 hours
    Zero Power consumption *4 yes ? - - - - - ?
    Voltage 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240, 12v DC


    *1 BQ-C25 is a multi battery charger, and can charge 9V batteries, 2 in total.

    *2 Fast charging can only be done with 2 cells. and not with 4 at the same time.
    *3 the BQ-CC24 is a timer based charger especially for eneloop Lite, therefore its not recommended to use with standard eneloops.
    *4 zero power consumption is that the charger will use less than 0.005 watt when not in use, according to IEC62301 it qualifies for Zero Power Consumption.
    PDF info link

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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    I can add the BQ-CC16, as presently sold in the EU.



    BQ-CC11 BQ-CC16 BQ-CC17 BQ-CC21 BG-CC22 BQ-CC23 BQ-CC24 BQ-CC25 MQH03
    Battery fitment 4 cells 4 cells 4 cells 4 cells 4 cells 2 cells 2 cells 4+2*1 4 cells
    AAA 1-4 1-4 1-4 1-4 1-4 1-2 1-2 1-4 1-4
    AA 1-4 1-4 1-4 1-4 1-4 1-2 1-2 1-4 1-4
    C - - - - - - - 1-4 -
    D - - - - - - - 1-4 -
    9V*1 - - - - - - - 1-2 -
    Smart charge Smart Smart Smart Smart Smart Smart -(timer) - Smart
    Charge time
    Fast charge*2 1-2 AA or AAA 2 hours 2 hours - 2 hours 4 hours 4 hours *3 6 hours 1 hour
    normal charge 4 hours 4 hours 5-8 hours 4 hours 8 hours 8 hours 7 hours 6 hours 2 hours
    Zero Power consumption *4 yes ? ? - - - - - ?
    Voltage 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240 100-240, 12v DC


    *1 BQ-CC25 is a multi battery charger, and can charge 9V batteries, 2 in total.

    *2 Fast charging can only be done with 2 cells. and not with 4 at the same time.
    *3 the BQ-CC24 is a timer based charger especially for eneloop Lite, therefore its not recommended to use with standard eneloops.
    *4 zero power consumption is that the charger will use less than 0.005 watt when not in use, according to IEC62301 it qualifies for Zero Power Consumption.
    PDF info link

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    Flashaholic* IsaacL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    I was just looking for this info today. Thanks ChibiM!

    According to their website, Panasonic's USA chargers are the BQ-CC16, BQ-CC17, and BQ-CC18. From what I can tell, the BQ-CC16 is the only smart charger of the three.
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by IsaacL View Post
    I was just looking for this info today. Thanks ChibiM!

    According to their website, Panasonic's USA chargers are the BQ-CC16, BQ-CC17, and BQ-CC18. From what I can tell, the BQ-CC16 is the only smart charger of the three.
    No, the BQ-CC17 is definitely a smart charger as well. I don't know what algorithm it uses to terminate, but it does so reliably and does it for individual cells in all 4 slots. It's just slow: 300mA for AA and 150mA for AAA.

    I personally like the MQH03, because it charges so much faster (and is also single-channel). But the BQ-CC17 is a good charger too, if you don't mind waiting. Having 4 separate LEDs to indicate charge is a nice feature. (The MQH03 lacks this.)

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    Flashaholic* mcnair55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Eneloop and similar type can be charged in any charger that you can simply buy in any decent supermarket nothing special is needed.
    Diagnosed with Grumpy Old Man Syndrome

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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcnair55 View Post
    Eneloop and similar type can be charged in any charger that you can simply buy in any decent supermarket nothing special is needed.
    Based on Eneloop trickle-charge testing posted a few years ago, I disagree. It appears that trickle-charging and overcharging is extremely destructive to Eneloops. So, if you want your batteries to last, you absolutely must get a smart charger, and preferably one that doesn't trickle-charge after completion (or alternatively, remove the batteries soon after charging finishes).

  10. #10

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    i once wrote with PDF screenshots uploaded to imageshack:

    "it is very instructional to compare the current Eneloop charger (www.eneloop.info, Sept 2012) models. Charging speeds are given in the PDF/PDFs:

    see pic below, the old charger MDR02 suggests
    AA: 550mA/cell => 230min.
    AAA: 380mA/cell => 135min.
    ( image deleted by imageshack )


    See pic below, the USB charger NC-MDU01 suggests:
    AA: 850mA/cell => 140min.
    AA: 450mA/cell => 280min.
    AAA: 850mA/cell => 60min.
    AAA: 450mA/cell => 120min.
    ( image deleted by imageshack )


    see pic below, the charger MQN04 suggests:
    AA: 250mA/cell => 10h.
    AAA: 120mA/cell => 8h.
    ( image deleted by imageshack )


    see pic below, the charger NC-MQN09W suggests:
    AA: 300mA/cell => 7.5h.
    AAA: 150mA/cell => 6h.
    ( image deleted by imageshack )


    and finally, see pic below, the charger NC-MQR06W suggests:
    AA: 1680mA/cell => 75mins.
    AA: 1120mA/cell => 110mins.
    AA: 560mA/cell => 220mins.
    AAA: 840mA/cell => 65mins.
    AAA: 560mA/cell => 100mins.
    AAA: 280mA/cell => 200mins.
    ( image deleted by imageshack )


    see pic below, the official specs for Eneloop AA suggest:
    AA: 1C == 2000mA/cell => 1.1h.
    AA: 0.1C == 200mA/cell => 16h.
    ( image deleted by imageshack )


    see pic below, the official specs for Eneloop AAA suggest:
    AAA: 1C == 800mA/cell => 1.1h.
    AAA: 0.1C == 80mA/cell => 16h.


    If we collect the above 10 data points for AA and for AAA respectively and visualize them in a graph, then by visual inspection we can tell that the points are consistent (they both form a smooth curve with no outliers):
    AA: relationship between input amperage/cell (mAh) vs. charge time (mins.)
    AAA: relationship between input amperage/cell (mAh) vs. charge time (mins.)

    It also means that we could choose any input amperage-per-cell from the blue curve, i.e. an amperage which lies between 0.1C (the "Break-In") and 1C (the "Fast Charge"):
    ( image deleted by imageshack )

    "

    Maybe Panasonic simply renamed the Sanyo chargers. One could possibly find more info on them on the google.

  11. #11
    Flashaholic* mcnair55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkIntoTheLight View Post
    Based on Eneloop trickle-charge testing posted a few years ago, I disagree. It appears that trickle-charging and overcharging is extremely destructive to Eneloops. So, if you want your batteries to last, you absolutely must get a smart charger, and preferably one that doesn't trickle-charge after completion (or alternatively, remove the batteries soon after charging finishes).
    My Tesco bought charger is as old as my Eneloop types bought over 8 years ago,all still working fine and no issues.My charger does not trickle charge anyway and charges one cell at a time if needed and AA/AAA and can be mixed.
    Diagnosed with Grumpy Old Man Syndrome

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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcnair55 View Post
    My Tesco bought charger is as old as my Eneloop types bought over 8 years ago,all still working fine and no issues.My charger does not trickle charge anyway and charges one cell at a time if needed and AA/AAA and can be mixed.
    Old chargers are just as good as new chargers, as long as they terminate when the battery is full. I have an old Kodak 4xAA charger bought back in 2000 that I still use. It cost plenty, but compact smart chargers were expensive back then. Nowadays, a $20 charger probably does a better job. But it works, so I'm not going to throw it out.

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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Just remembered that there's a thread here on CPF about the Panasonic BQ-CC14 USB charger, which is supposed to be an equivalent to the NC-MDU01. I can't tell you any more about it, though, because I don't own one myself.
    Phlogiston is the main constituent of Magic Smoke.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkIntoTheLight View Post
    Based on Eneloop trickle-charge testing posted a few years ago, I disagree. It appears that trickle-charging and overcharging is extremely destructive to Eneloops. So, if you want your batteries to last, you absolutely must get a smart charger, and preferably one that doesn't trickle-charge after completion (or alternatively, remove the batteries soon after charging finishes).
    Cosign. Eneloops are constructed with very sensitive chemistry. That chemistry, and battery life, are compromised when we start forcing charge through them.

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    Flashaholic* mcnair55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by gallon View Post
    Cosign. Eneloops are constructed with very sensitive chemistry. That chemistry, and battery life, are compromised when we start forcing charge through them.
    Please explain who and what is force charging through them as you have lost me,I have not a clue what you are on about.
    Diagnosed with Grumpy Old Man Syndrome

  16. #16

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Really mcnair? In a thread about charging eneloops you don't have a clue about what is forcing charge through the batteries?

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* IsaacL's Avatar
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    Default Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    @Mcnair55

    All the explanations given thus far are great. There are handful of important differences between Eneloops and legacy NiMH or even NiCd cells. But setting that aside, much more goes into charging modern LSD NiMH and Li-Ion cells than just running power through them. I recommend reading HKJ's informative and thorough reviews of some currently available chargers if you want to know why all chargers aren't created equal.

    @Walkintothelight, right on! I think one reason why the price has come down is because of the emergence of LSD and the elimination of memory effect.
    Last edited by IsaacL; 01-11-2015 at 06:42 PM.
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by gallon View Post
    Really mcnair? In a thread about charging eneloops you don't have a clue about what is forcing charge through the batteries?

    No Mr Gallon I have not a clue about force charging,must admit when following instructions I have never come across it.If I put an Anorak on would that help?

    Quote Originally Posted by IsaacL View Post
    @Mcnair55

    All the explanation given thus far are great. There are handful of important differences between Eneloops and legacy NiMH or even NiCd cells. But setting that aside, much more goes into charging modern LSD NiMH and Li-Ion cells than just running power through them. I recommend reading HKJ's informative and thorough reviews of some currently available chargers if you want to know why all chargers aren't created equal.

    @Walkintothelight, right on! I think one reason why the price has come down is because of the emergence of LSD and the elimination of memory effect.

    It makes no odds to me I just follow the instructions I had with my supermarket charger.My charger has 4 separate slots and can charge 1 cell at a time and either AA/AAA or both at the same time and has an LCD window telling me when they are boiled up ready.I keep an eye open as this supermarket does deals on a charger and 4 own label Eneloop types as an offer.
    Diagnosed with Grumpy Old Man Syndrome

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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by gallon View Post
    Really mcnair? In a thread about charging eneloops you don't have a clue about what is forcing charge through the batteries?
    Clearly, he's been drinking too much. Maybe he'll make more sense in the morning.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkIntoTheLight View Post
    Clearly, he's been drinking too much. Maybe he'll make more sense in the morning.
    Ah, got it. Thank you for that. It is all harmless when you explain it that way.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by gallon View Post
    Ah, got it. Thank you for that. It is all harmless when you explain it that way.

    I am waiting Mr Gallon for your explanation and btw I do not drink.
    Diagnosed with Grumpy Old Man Syndrome

  22. #22

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Hello everyone, first post here. I recently bought a Sanyo BC-KJR6B40TM charger, and upon receiving the model, saw it printed as NC-MQR06W. Initially I thought I had received a wrong model, but upon close inspection noticed that Panasonic was importing this product, and had the whole set (i.e. charger + 4 2000 mAh Ni-Mh cells) listed as the BC-KJR6B40TM. The reason I'm confused is I'm trying to find out the charging type used by this product, and have found lots of contradictory information on google. Some older sites/posts from 2009/2010 list the NC-MQR06W as using Peak Voltage Detection, while some say its uses NDV detection primarily.

    The eneloop catalogue 2012 on the internet lists the BC-KJR6B40TM as capable of -
    1. Individual charging control
    2. Timer control
    3. Peak voltage control
    4. Minus delta voltage detection
    5. Temperature control/protection
    6. Alkaline battery detection
    7. Short circuited cells detection

    So my question is, does this unit use one charging detection preferentially over the other, and would it be ok to use it for non-eneloop Ni-Mh batteries.
    Also, does this employ trickle charging, after the initial charge is complete. I could not find this info anywhere.

    Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by Norm; 01-15-2015 at 01:24 AM.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by noobcell View Post
    Hello everyone, first post here. I recently bought a Sanyo BC-KJR6B40TM charger, and upon receiving the model, saw it printed as NC-MQR06W. Initially I thought I had received a wrong model, but upon close inspection noticed that Panasonic was importing this product, and had the whole set (i.e. charger + 4 2000 mAh Ni-Mh cells) listed as the BC-KJR6B40TM. The reason I'm confused is I'm trying to find out the charging type used by this product, and have found lots of contradictory information on google. Some older sites/posts from 2009/2010 list the NC-MQR06W as using Peak Voltage Detection, while some say its uses NDV detection primarily.

    The eneloop catalogue 2012 on the internet lists the BC-KJR6B40TM as capable of -
    1. Individual charging control
    2. Timer control
    3. Peak voltage control
    4. Minus delta voltage detection
    5. Temperature control/protection
    6. Alkaline battery detection
    7. Short circuited cells detection

    So my question is, does this unit use one charging detection preferentially over the other, and would it be ok to use it for non-eneloop Ni-Mh batteries.
    Also, does this employ trickle charging, after the initial charge is complete. I could not find this info anywhere.

    Thanks in advance.
    hello noobcell welcome to the forum!

    your started thread got merged with this one :P
    Last edited by kreisl; 01-15-2015 at 05:58 AM. Reason: thx Norm

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by noobcell View Post
    1. Individual charging control
    2. Timer control
    3. Peak voltage control
    4. Minus delta voltage detection
    5. Temperature control/protection
    6. Alkaline battery detection
    7. Short circuited cells detection

    So my question is, does this unit use one charging detection preferentially over the other, and would it be ok to use it for non-eneloop Ni-Mh batteries.
    All are activate all the time, but usual it will stop on 3) or 4), depending on battery type.
    2) and 5) are only used when 3) and 4) fails

    This charging works for all NiMH batteries.
    My website with battery and charger information: lygte-info.
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    Compare 18650 LiIon batteries or smaller (RCR123, 16340, 14500, 10450) LiIon batteries.

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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Shouldn't the MAHA/Powerex MH-C808m be on the list? Old, but still available and I think it still holds its own.
    Keep it between the ditches and the shiny side up.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by noobcell View Post
    Hello everyone, first post here.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    What about an energizer CHDC7? http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/chdc7.pdf

    It lists charge current at 450 mAh, dV charge termination, and 50 mAh trickle charge. If that trickle charge continues on indefinitely, I would think this a bad charger. If it stops after a period of time, it could be alright, no?

    I've got one from before I learned much about batteries, and it's basically retired. It goes in my suitcase due to it's very compact size, but even at that, it's only a backup plan. My primary plan when travelling is to have enough spare cells with me charging is not necessary.

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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by UserName View Post
    What about an energizer CHDC7? http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/chdc7.pdf

    It lists charge current at 450 mAh, dV charge termination, and 50 mAh trickle charge. If that trickle charge continues on indefinitely, I would think this a bad charger. If it stops after a period of time, it could be alright, no?
    My understanding is that any charger that continues to charge (or trickle) after termination did not "terminate". Put another way, once your cells reach their max specified voltage, charging them further (or keeping them at 100%) is still damaging them.
    "On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux."

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcnair55 View Post
    I am waiting Mr Gallon for your explanation and btw I do not drink.
    Come on 8 pints still waiting.
    Diagnosed with Grumpy Old Man Syndrome

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need?

    What about the Nitecore i4 Universal Intelligent Charger?

    Jerry

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