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Thread: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

  1. #91
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeepingItLight View Post
    He likes the Panasonic CC16 & CC17 chargers.
    Yes, but I do not like all Panasonic chargers, the one I am testing at the current time do not look good.
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  2. #92

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Agreed, even though they maybe the "official" charger, doesn't mean it's good... there's quite a few crap Sanyo and Panasonic chargers out there... there's only several that are really good considering their functional simplicity

  3. #93
    Flashaholic* MidnightDistortions's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeepingItLight View Post
    There is a place for a simple chargers, and the Panasonic models that are discussed in this thread—and which are also recommended by HKJ—are great for that purpose. HKJ's recommendations came in response to a direct question about Eneloop Pro batteries. He likes the Panasonic CC16 & CC17 chargers.

    As your NiMH batteries age, however, you will need an analyzer. If they begin to develop increased internal resistance, for instance, the cycle function of an analyzer will allow you to completely charge and discharge your batteries a few times in a row. That will often "reset" them, clearing away much of the internal resistance. Capacity testing is another useful function. It will allow you to determine when a battery's life is effectively over. Another application is for flashlights that use more than one battery. Capacity testing allows you to measure—and match—the capacities of batteries that are used together. These are only a few of the features that you get with an analyzer.

    I learned a lot about NiMH care and charging basics by watching the AskMrWizard videos on YouTube. I give a mini-review and YouTube links here.

    Usually High IR cells are considered dead. While you might be able to recover some cells that have increased High IR you won't be able to recover some cells unless you either manually discharge/charge the cells or use a charger like a La Crosse model that supports the refresh function that doesn't check for IR. However if the charger finishes it and the C9000 still reports high IR those cells affected are most likely no good. SilverFox also mentions that any cell under 80% is considered crap, or junk. If you refreshed a cell and it's still under 80% and the C9000 reports it as high, usually nothing can be done to recover that cell. If you want to check it yourself most of the time a discharge on the C9000 will show you how the battery is performing under a discharge. The La Crosse charger can be good but for some reason the C9000 discharge rates (even low ones) can be hard on the cells and bad cells will usually have the discharge end quickly.
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  4. #94
    Flashaholic* Grijon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Regarding the Maha C9000's "incomplete" charging, it's my understanding that it does what it does intentionally in order to be gentle on the cells - I really like that.

    Here's what I posted in another thread for any concerns over 'undercharging':
    Quote Originally Posted by Grijon View Post
    What I do with mine is write down what time I started the charge. When the battery is shown as DONE the amount of time it took to charge is included as part of the information displayed; since I know when I started the charge and I know how long it was charging, I simply add 2 hours and take the batteries off more than 2 hours after being shown as done.

    For example: Let's say I put my Durcell Ion Core cells in to charge at 2:30pm. At 5 pm I check and they show as done, so I wait for the Maha to display charge time. If the Maha shows 144 minutes then I know that the charger said DONE at 4:45pm and I can take the batteries out two hours after that (so that the two-hour top-off is finished) - so I'll come back after 6:45pm.

    It requires me to write down when I started and then to do some math, but I'm OK with that. I hope this helps with any confusion.
    If someone is looking for a simple charger, then the C9000's not so hot. I wanted an all-in-one NiMH system, and my pair of Mahas have been great!
    Last edited by Grijon; 07-16-2015 at 05:52 AM.

  5. #95

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    How does the Xtar VC4 perform charging Eneloops (both standard and pro/XX)?
    Has anybody tried?
    Thanks for helping a noob out!

  6. #96
    Flashaholic* KeepingItLight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightDistortions View Post
    Usually High IR cells are considered dead.
    Thanks, MidnightDistortions. I am still learning.

    Another mistake I made was in purchasing 20 Eneloop Pros all in one swoop. I was planning to replace all the alkaleaks in my house. I chose the Pros thinking that 500 cycles was good enough for me, so long as I got longer runtimes.

    After laying out about $90, I read here that—long runtimes notwithstanding—Eneloop Pros are a poor choice in low-draw devices such as clocks, TV remotes, etc. Runtimes are so long in those devices that self-discharge begins to be the limiting factor. Meanwhile, a poster advised me that IR could build up in batteries used for those applications, and that, in most cases, it could be cleared up by refreshing the batteries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grijon View Post
    Regarding the Maha C9000's "incomplete" charging, it's my understanding that it does what it does intentionally in order to be gentle on the cells - I really like that.
    No problem with that. My concern, and the only thing negative thing I have written about the C9000, is that the word "Done" is displayed at the wrong time. In fact, it appears when charging is only partially completed. And when charging is actually done, no indication is given. I think we both agree that is not ideal.

    Why not have the same "gentleness," but with accurate messages? Maha could use something like "Done 1" and "Done 2" if they wanted to report at the midway changeover. "Done 2" would be the message when battery charging is complete.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grijon View Post
    Here's what I posted in another thread for any concerns over 'undercharging': ...
    The method you quoted sounds like it would be an effective workaround for this problem.
    Last edited by KeepingItLight; 07-16-2015 at 10:24 AM.
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  7. #97

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeepingItLight View Post
    My concern is only that the word "Done" is displayed at the wrong time. In fact, it appears when charging is only partially completed. And when charging is actually done, no indication is given.
    this could be fixed with a simple change in the firmware code.
    it is a pity that the MH-C9000 firmware cannot be updated thru WiFi, USB cable, Ethernet cable, or Bluetooth.

    below the 60$-mark only hobby chargers allow firmware updates
    Last edited by kreisl; 07-16-2015 at 11:29 AM. Reason: price of MH-C9000 is < 60$

  8. #98
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post

    below the 100$-mark only hobby chargers allow firmware updates
    SKYRC NC-2500 is firmware upgradable via Bluetooth with
    smartphone app

  9. #99
    Flashaholic* Grijon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeepingItLight View Post
    Another mistake I made was in purchasing 20 Eneloop Pros all in one swoop. I was planning to replace all the alkaleaks in my house. I chose the Pros thinking that 500 cycles was good enough for me, so long as I got longer runtimes.

    After laying out about $90, I read here that—long runtimes notwithstanding—Eneloop Pros are a poor choice in low-draw devices such as clocks, TV remotes, etc. Runtimes are so long in those devices that self-discharge begins to be the limiting factor.
    It wouldn't be cost effective, but you could buy lights for the Pros and regular Eneloops for your low-drain devices...

    No problem with that. My concern, and the only thing negative thing I have written about the C9000, is that the word "Done" is displayed at the wrong time. In fact, it appears when charging is only partially completed. And when charging is actually done, no indication is given. I think we both agree that is not ideal.
    Agreed, though I would argue that 'partially completed' is a little misleading based on my understanding that they show DONE at around 90%; "not ideal" is an excellent way to put it.

    Why not have the same "gentleness," but with accurate messages? Maha could use something like "Done 1" and "Done 2" if they wanted to report at the midway changeover. "Done 2" would be the message when battery charging is complete.
    +1; I would love that!

  10. #100
    Flashaholic* KeepingItLight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeepingItLight View Post
    Another mistake I made was in purchasing 20 Eneloop Pros all in one swoop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grijon View Post
    It wouldn't be cost effective, but you could buy lights for the Pros and regular Eneloops for your low-drain devices...
    Oh, yeah!

    You are not the only gremlin who has been whispering that into my ears.
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    I'm surprised that no testers here have reported on Maha's little brother, the Powerex MH-C401FS charger. It's compact and moderately priced.

    I've been using one for more than a year with good results and no issues.

    It has four independent circuits and can manually switch between 100-minute fast charge and 8 hour gentle charge. I'm in no hurry and use gentle charge on my Eneloops.

    It includes AC charger and car charger. Sold at various places, listed on Amazon at $38.99. Recommended.
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  12. #102
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by hatman View Post
    I'm surprised that no testers here have reported on Maha's little brother, the Powerex MH-C401FS charger. It's compact and moderately priced.
    It would be nice with a sticky thread where people could wish for reviews (by me), but I doubt it would be within the rules.
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by hatman View Post
    I'm surprised that no testers here have reported on Maha's little brother, the Powerex MH-C401FS charger. It's compact and moderately priced.

    I've been using one for more than a year with good results and no issues.

    It has four independent circuits and can manually switch between 100-minute fast charge and 8 hour gentle charge. I'm in no hurry and use gentle charge on my Eneloops.

    It includes AC charger and car charger. Sold at various places, listed on Amazon at $38.99. Recommended.
    Addendum: I see that there is also an international version of this compact smart charger (110-240v) at a very attractive price.
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  14. #104
    Flashaholic* Grijon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by hatman View Post
    I'm surprised that no testers here have reported on Maha's little brother, the Powerex MH-C401FS charger. It's compact and moderately priced.

    I've been using one for more than a year with good results and no issues.

    It has four independent circuits and can manually switch between 100-minute fast charge and 8 hour gentle charge. I'm in no hurry and use gentle charge on my Eneloops.

    It includes AC charger and car charger. Sold at various places, listed on Amazon at $38.99. Recommended.
    Thank you for sharing with us - I'd never heard of this charger, but it looks great and is now on my wishlist thanks to you!

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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grijon View Post
    Thank you for sharing with us - I'd never heard of this charger, but it looks great and is now on my wishlist thanks to you!

    What I like about it is that it is simple and uncomplicated and there's nothing to screw up.
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  16. #106

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy808 View Post
    How does the Xtar VC4 perform charging Eneloops (both standard and pro/XX)?
    Has anybody tried?
    Thanks for helping a noob out!
    Does anybody at all have one or tried? Pls

  17. #107

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    VC4 Eneloop was tested in Denmark:
    http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%2...0VC4%20UK.html

  18. #108

    Default Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    Wow nice Thanks!
    I'm thinking about the Nitecore D4 and the VC4 -don't know which one's best...

  19. #109

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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy808 View Post
    Wow nice Thanks!
    I'm thinking about the Nitecore D4 and the VC4 -don't know which one's best...
    The VC4 will require you to buy a separate USB power supply, unless you already have one. I still have not heard any explanation for why that makes sense, but for me, that was a deal-breaker. HKJ's tests showed it is a good charger otherwise...but the D4 is also, and doesn't have any such issues. The only reason I would consider the Xtar is if I really wanted the capacity readout...personally I don't find it necessary, but it is a feature that the D4 does not have.

  20. #110

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    I don't doubt those lower end Maha/PowerEx chargers are good, but the question is... how worth is it to you? I'm saying this because the official chargers from Sanyo or Panasonic could be just as capable (depending on which model and vintage you get) in terms of charge rate and method, plus usually costs a lot less... also, they tend to be the most compact of the many decent smart chargers out there, which is the idea when it comes to getting the lower end Maha/PowerEx chargers due to their compactness/portability


    but... that VC4 charger looks pretty nifty and tempting because it has all of those stats in the nice big LCD, plus the fact that it can charge a multitude of cell chemistries and sizes... too bad it doesn't come with a wall wart, but it looks like a pretty straight forward 3rd party solution to it
    Last edited by Kouryu; 07-18-2015 at 09:31 PM.

  21. #111

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by thedoc007 View Post
    The VC4 will require you to buy a separate USB power supply, unless you already have one. I still have not heard any explanation for why that makes sense, but for me, that was a deal-breaker. HKJ's tests showed it is a good charger otherwise...but the D4 is also, and doesn't have any such issues. The only reason I would consider the Xtar is if I really wanted the capacity readout...personally I don't find it necessary, but it is a feature that the D4 does not have.
    The capacity read-out might be a good idea for a newbie so I can learn more but then I would have to buy a good quality USB adapter for the VC4.
    I have asked HKJ what he thinks about using this: http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-W...SB+adapter+2.1 but he was too busy to test anymore so have you tried it or What do you use? (I have also considered the recommended Xtar 2.1A Wall Adaptor).

    I also found the VC4 on GearBest for $20~ A BARGAIN (they had like 100~ of them) so they both cost about the same...

    Thanks Guys!
    Last edited by Flashy808; 07-19-2015 at 01:45 AM.

  22. #112
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kouryu View Post
    I don't doubt those lower end Maha/PowerEx chargers are good, but the question is... how worth is it to you? I'm saying this because the official chargers from Sanyo or Panasonic could be just as capable (depending on which model and vintage you get) in terms of charge rate and method, plus usually costs a lot less... also, they tend to be the most compact of the many decent smart chargers out there, which is the idea when it comes to getting the lower end Maha/PowerEx chargers due to their compactness/portability
    A fair question.

    If I were trying Eneloops for the first time, I might be tempted to try a Sanyo or Panasonic charger because of their low cost.

    But if I wanted to make sure that my batteries didn't get overcharged, I'd pick the little Maha/Powerex. While the newer Panasonic may make the same claim, my experience is that the Maha really delivers.

    I hope this helps.
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  23. #113

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Actually, you might be misinformed... not all of the Sanyo and Panasonic chargers can overcharge cells, only the cheap ones bundled in the cheapest kits have that potential. For either brand of charger, it's a matter of choosing the right one out of the dozens they made. The often mentioned/popular ones here, such as the MQH03 and MQR06 are smart charger and have a full set of charge termination techniques (as well as full individual channels) just like all of the premium "boutique" chargers out there. This has been proven by others who have tested these chargers. Search for discussions/reviews of these chargers, and even the new Panasonic BQ-CC16 for good information about this.

    They are not considered cheap chargers and were quite a bit more expensive than their cheapest kit/bundle chargers. They still were and are (ie: Panasonic BQ-CC16 or BQ-CC21, both currently in production) cheaper than some of those premium 3rd party chargers though.

    In the end, it all comes down to the matter of choice, what you want in features, and how much you want to spend.
    IMO, if you want a simple smart charger with the portability that's brain dead simple to use, you really can't go wrong with the better Sanyo or Panasonic chargers. Downside is, having to import them as they never really officially offered them in the US. But even still, with it all said and done, it's still cheaper than than many 3rd party (good) smart chargers!
    Last edited by Kouryu; 07-20-2015 at 10:02 PM.

  24. #114
    Flashaholic* MidnightDistortions's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by KeepingItLight View Post
    Thanks, MidnightDistortions. I am still learning.

    Another mistake I made was in purchasing 20 Eneloop Pros all in one swoop. I was planning to replace all the alkaleaks in my house. I chose the Pros thinking that 500 cycles was good enough for me, so long as I got longer runtimes.

    After laying out about $90, I read here that—long runtimes notwithstanding—Eneloop Pros are a poor choice in low-draw devices such as clocks, TV remotes, etc. Runtimes are so long in those devices that self-discharge begins to be the limiting factor. Meanwhile, a poster advised me that IR could build up in batteries used for those applications, and that, in most cases, it could be cleared up by refreshing the batteries.
    Yeah in that case the refresh might remedy the high IR. Basically since the Eneloop Pros are designed for high drain, the higher mAh may not be the only factor in the reasons those cells work better in battery depleting devices. Run times in low drain applications last so long that i think AAA 800mAh Eneloops would be sufficient enough. I actually plan on ordering some AAA to AA converters for some low drain devices that a brand new AA Eneloop would just almost feel like a waste, the AAA cells are cheaper so using those in tv remotes and clocks would be more ideal when i need them. Also would be great for this Innova multimeter which takes AA cells. Usually i'll assign older high IR cells to these low drain devices but at some point my old NiMH cells will give out.

    No problem with that. My concern, and the only thing negative thing I have written about the C9000, is that the word "Done" is displayed at the wrong time. In fact, it appears when charging is only partially completed. And when charging is actually done, no indication is given. I think we both agree that is not ideal.

    Why not have the same "gentleness," but with accurate messages? Maha could use something like "Done 1" and "Done 2" if they wanted to report at the midway changeover. "Done 2" would be the message when battery charging is complete.
    Usually i can tell by the voltage, the voltage will drop a bit but then after awhile they'll jump back up and then settle at a particular voltage when they are done, though it would be nice if they showed a 'top off' stage and a trickle charge mode with showing the mA that is still put into the battery. With that being said i don't have to worry about pulling out the cells right when the charger is done, i can leave them on without worry of overcharge. My La Crosse charger will fully charge Eneloops but then i have to ensure they are taken off the charger to avoid the trickle charge to overcharge the cells.
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  25. #115

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    i don't know what that is but looks like eneloop chargers from catalog pdf:

    http://www.docdroid.net/9Qe71Zq/sanyo-time.pdf.html

  26. #116

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    i don't know what that is but looks like eneloop chargers from catalog pdf:

    http://www.docdroid.net/9Qe71Zq/sanyo-time.pdf.html
    It is.. but they're Japan only Sanyo chargers... most export chargers use different model #s, even if they're the same thing
    This post explains better...

  27. #117

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kouryu View Post
    Actually, you might be misinformed... not all of the Sanyo and Panasonic chargers can overcharge cells, only the cheap ones bundled in the cheapest kits have that potential. For either brand of charger, it's a matter of choosing the right one out of the dozens they made. The often mentioned/popular ones here, such as the MQH03 and MQR06 are smart charger and have a full set of charge termination techniques (as well as full individual channels) just like all of the premium "boutique" chargers out there. This has been proven by others who have tested these chargers. Search for discussions/reviews of these chargers, and even the new Panasonic BQ-CC16 for good information about this.

    They are not considered cheap chargers and were quite a bit more expensive than their cheapest kit/bundle chargers. They still were and are (ie: Panasonic BQ-CC16 or BQ-CC21, both currently in production) cheaper than some of those premium 3rd party chargers though.

    In the end, it all comes down to the matter of choice, what you want in features, and how much you want to spend.
    IMO, if you want a simple smart charger with the portability that's brain dead simple to use, you really can't go wrong with the better Sanyo or Panasonic chargers. Downside is, having to import them as they never really officially offered them in the US. But even still, with it all said and done, it's still cheaper than than many 3rd party (good) smart chargers!
    OK, I want one of these MQH03 or the other one but where can I buy them? This thread is really hard on beginners. Are you saying there are no good chargers available in usa? I mean this in the most respectful way but can someone simply say where we can buy a quality charger that accurately reports when batteries are charged? People seem to love Maha but everyone agrees it reports batteries charged before they are? That's pretty useless.

  28. #118
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by recDNA View Post
    People seem to love Maha but everyone agrees it reports batteries charged before they are? That's pretty useless.
    Depends, you only loose a little bit in capacity.
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  29. #119

    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    What about this one?
    Panasonic BQ-CC17KSBA eneloop Advanced Individual Battery Charger with 4 LED Charge Indicator Lights, Black

    Is this good and safe? It says it charges batteries individually. I'd really like to find a charger that tells me whwn batteries are fully charged but won't over-charge them
    Last edited by recDNA; 07-22-2015 at 01:32 PM.

  30. #120
    Flashaholic* KeepingItLight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eneloops: what charger do I need? (info and discussion thead)

    Quote Originally Posted by recDNA View Post
    I'd really like to find a charger that tells me when batteries are fully charged but won't over-charge them
    I made the jump to NiMH last month when I purchased 20 Eneloop Pros. Except for wishing I had bought a mix of regular Eneloops and Pros, I am happy to be dumping alkaleaks.

    As far as chargers go, I bought the Opus BT-C700. It got a good review from HKJ, and it terminates correctly. It also is an analyzer that can charge, discharge, cycle, and test batteries. On GearBest, it was priced around $25 US. I have yet to receive the shipment, so the jury is still out my first direct-from-China purchase.

    Since I knew I would want to have an analyzer to check my batteries as they age, I decided not to buy a charger today and an analyzer tomorrow.
    Prince plays George Harrison's masterpiece While My Guitar Gently Weeps. R.I.P.
    Great vocals & guitar by LeAnn Rimes & Joss Stone as they cover Gershwin's Summertime.

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