Why do companies still manufacture incandescent flashlights?

cpfyyz · Jan 14, 2015

With the seemingly exponential growth in the use of LEDs, why are there still manufacturers that use incandescent bulbs in their flashlights?
I would have thought that any cheap LED bulb would outperform with more lumens and less power drain than a conventional incan bulb? :shrug:

mcnair55 · Jan 14, 2015

I have no idea but currently with my work I am selling a Li-On powered combi drill with twin 18v batteries on a January offer and it also comes with a free torch that uses one of the batteries and that is a bulb type rather than Led.

fivemega · Jan 14, 2015

cpfyyz said:
why are there still manufacturers that use incandescent bulbs in their flashlights?

Do they sell?
If they do and making money, I don't see any reason not to make.

archimedes · Jan 14, 2015

I still use incandescent flashlights ... :thinking:

:shrug:

idleprocess · Jan 14, 2015

Because there's still a market.

There's also the issue of sunk costs in tooling and production equipment. It's the same reason why old motels exist well off beaten track on isolated secondary highways rendered obsolete by newer highways - so long as a trickle of paying guests still show up, the place doesn't catch fire/collapse, you might as well wring it for that last bit of profit.

Lastly, there's the hazier issue of design, production expertise, supplier relationships, and more rapid design cycles. Making LED flashlights is an appreciably different animal than incandescent. On the design front, you need to approach heat differently, internals are appreciably different, and will need some electrical engineering expertise for anything LED with a driver (which is pretty much 98% of viable designs since the market wants to drop 1-2 cells in and go). Production for LED will tend to be a little more involved with a larger bill of materials. You'll need a new set of suppliers for LED with a solid foot into electronic components. LED flashlight designs tend to have somewhat short shelf lives, so you will need to be launching new models - or at least visibly revised models - regularly.

But mostly it's about demand - the broader market might have gone to LED, but appreciable niches remain that are interested in the hotwire. These niches are smaller, but likely more profitable since they often don't buy on price alone.

smokinbasser · Jan 15, 2015

There is always the possibility they still have huge stocks of hot wire lights they need to sell to recover their investments made before LEDs became the hot ticket.

Timothybil · Jan 15, 2015

There is also the issue of existing contracts. If I have a contract I entered into five years ago to provide Model 94 incandescent flashlight for ten years, guess what I am making for the next five years. And in five years, if the customer comes and says we want to extend for another five years, I'm going to turn them down? I already have everything I need to make the product without any additional startup expense. Also, since I knew the original contract was for 10 years, I depreciated all my startup expense over that ten years, and now everything is fully depreciated. That allows me to actually reduce the price slightly to the customer, and still make more per unit than I did when the contract started.

Why do you think Surefire still makes and sells the original incandescent G2? Not for fanatics like us. I am sure they still have ongoing contracts to supply the original G2, with the same advantage of having everything fully depreciated and a better profit margin on each one than when they originally started to sell it.

scout24 · Jan 18, 2015

It's very foggy here in Northeast Pennsylvania tonight. I took my dog for a walk about a half hour ago. There is NOTHING like a good incan for this use, cutting through fog. My Surefire E2e with the "low output" MN02 throws like a champ and has a wonderful spill beam at your feet. Tried two high end, high cri lights, one a titanium custom. Both beams washed out and had half the throw of the 25 lumen E2e, with way too much reflected light coming back at me. I need to stock up on bulbs while they are still available.

I smile every time I use these lights, foggy or not.

MidnightDistortions · Jan 19, 2015

The easy answer is that LED's are a bit way too efficient. Incans have less reflective light and is a bit better in certain situations such as fog or just needing a little light to read a map. For the most part is LEDs are good but i prefer to have a couple of incans in case

.

The Municipality · Jan 20, 2015

cpfyyz said:
With the seemingly exponential growth in the use of LEDs, why are there still manufacturers that use incandescent bulbs in their flashlights?

Same reason people watch honey boo boo - there's money to be made.

wedlpine · Jan 20, 2015

The Municipality said:
Same reason people watch honey boo boo...

FroggyTaco · Jan 20, 2015

The Municipality said:
Same reason people watch honey boo boo - there's money to be made.

Honey boo boo? Whats that?

leon2245 · Jan 20, 2015

Stop liking what I don't like.

cpfyyz · Jan 20, 2015

All very good points, but I'm not sure if price point is a factor.
I bought some decent quality LED flashlights that cost the same or less than incan flashlights at big box retailers.

Also, it seems that all bicycle lights have made the switch from incan to LED, but why is there such a slow progression with flashlights?

idleprocess · Jan 20, 2015

cpfyyz said:
All very good points, but I'm not sure if price point is a factor.
I bought some decent quality LED flashlights that cost the same or less than incan flashlights at big box retailers.

Also, it seems that all bicycle lights have made the switch from incan to LED, but why is there such a slow progression with flashlights?

Many many ideas for the continued presence of incandescents on the market have been suggested; I suggest you respond to those you don't understand, wish to expand upon, or disagree with rather than asking the question anew. You might also note that with the arrival of the LED there was quite the upending of the market as we understood it 15+ years ago.

EDIT: To clarify my last sentence: just finding an incandescent flashlight on store shelves outside of a specialty retailer is a bit challenging, so I'm genuinely baffled on your assertion of a slow progression for flashlights which are pretty overwhelmingly LED.

ampdude · Jan 21, 2015

cpfyyz said:
With the seemingly exponential growth in the use of LEDs, why are there still manufacturers that use incandescent bulbs in their flashlights?
I would have thought that any cheap LED bulb would outperform with more lumens and less power drain than a conventional incan bulb? :shrug:

A newer technology may provide some or one benefit, but that does not necessarily mean it is superior in every way, or more than one way.

And I believe aside from the G2 they still make the 6P-BK or "6P Original" as well, unless something has changed in the past few weeks. They quit making the G2-OD for some stupid reason and kept the black and yellow. I always prefer the OD to the other two. I don't think I've ever even owned the yellow version.

RetroTechie · Apr 28, 2015

cpfyyz said:
With the seemingly exponential growth in the use of LEDs, why are there still manufacturers that use incandescent bulbs in their flashlights?

Because they also sell batteries? :laughing:

smokinbasser said:
There is always the possibility they still have huge stocks of hot wire lights they need to sell to recover their investments made before LEDs became the hot ticket.

Then there's that.

idleprocess said:
Because there's still a market. (..)
Making LED flashlights is an appreciably different animal than incandescent.

And that.

(and probably a few more reasons)

Chicken Drumstick · Apr 28, 2015

cpfyyz said:
All very good points, but I'm not sure if price point is a factor.
I bought some decent quality LED flashlights that cost the same or less than incan flashlights at big box retailers.

Also, it seems that all bicycle lights have made the switch from incan to LED, but why is there such a slow progression with flashlights?

Suspect there are many reasons. But likely ones I can think of are:

-cost.

Sure LED's are cheaper these days, but all require a driver as a rule or lots of batteries to direct drive. Incan is a simpler setup. So I suspect at the low end, incan could be significantly cheaper. Using simple sums, if an incan torch cost say 50p less cost price than it's LED equivalent and you are still selling the incan ones and maybe make 100,000 - 200,000 units a year.

That's a £50,000 - £100,000 increase in production costs that will eat right into the profit margin.

-contracts.

For large suppliers it probably isn't unheard of that they signed a supply contract for 'x' bulbs a year over 'y' period or something. As this would get them the best price. And bulb seller would be assured revenue for the period. If these contracts haven't expired yet, then they will keep making them until such a time they can move on.

-tooling.

If a maker also produces the bulbs in house, then they have absorbed a large cost. Switching to LED would require outsourcing or large investment. It might just be more lucrative to continue with what they have until it becomes unprofitable.

-market position enhancement.

I'm sure Maglite do this kind of thing outside the USA, where there incan products are generally still widely available and expensive. As the LED is marketed as newer and better along side the incan line, the seller can then charge even more for the LED versions. Basically milking the market until the wider buying public cottons on that it isn't such a good deal.

TEEJ · Apr 28, 2015

Just a note on the fog issue:

I see no advantage to incans in fog....my LED work better, and I have many of both to compare. There are of course poor LED focusing examples, just as there are poorly focused incan examples, but there is nothing inherently superior to an incan's light in fog.

The cd is the primary factor, as far as the light itself. If you have a blue light special led, or an incan with blue light, etc...sure, blue sucks for fog....but, white light, according to tests, is best in fog, with some yellow versions being acceptable. As you can get yellower LED or incan versions, its not the incan vs LED light, its the tint and cd, etc.

So, a particular LED, or incan flashlight, might be better than another, but, that's going to not be apples and apples, and those who feel the LED is better might try a different incan, and those who think incan is better can try a different led for comparison, etc.

fivemega · Apr 28, 2015

Most of posts here are about comparison of LED and incand.

OP main question is:

[SIZE=+1]Why do companies still manufacture incandescent flashlights?[/SIZE]

Why do companies still manufacture incandescent flashlights?

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