Think I'm going to abandon lithium ion batteries

Very recently, after reading a bunch of threads about the dangers of lithium ion batteries, I decided that I am probably going to stick to AA and AAA Powered lights. I think what I have is pretty safe, Eagletac 3400 protected and Nitecore i2 intellicharger used in Fenix lights, but still thinking that there is even a chance of something going wrong freaks me out. Also I have kids that like to use my lights and I don't want that risk. Am I being overly paranoid, or has anyone else decided to pass on lithium ion altogether?


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I think if you have some batteries from a reputable brand, you really don't have that much to worry about. Lithium Ion batteries are used in almost all our gadgets now - cell phones, laptops, etc. Any danger usually comes from cheap knock off batteries and misuse.

No Li-ions with kids; make sure they have their own NiMH-powered lights and that yours is not accessible.

Why don't you just let the kids use only the AAA and AAA lights. You can keep the fenix and the 18650 batteries for your own usage.

No they've never been allowed to use my 18650 lights. They each have their own E01s. And that's just it, that if it's another thing that could potentially be a problem, or that I need to be paranoid while the batteries are on the charger, maybe it's best to stick with the safe stuff. I have been known to make hasty decisions and change my mind a lot so trying to think this through. Leaning towards the safe route.

Have you considered using good quality CR123As instead of the rechargeables? I'm pretty new to this, but it seems like that would mitigate the biggest part of the risk.

I'm all in for rechargeables. Once I started with the Eneloops i realized there's no going back. I like to play with my lights too much and I'd worry about wasting money using non-rechargables.

CR123A's can be dangerous as well. I think the best way to avoid any unfortunate situation is to buy reputable batteries and equipment, with as many safety devices as possible. So protection circuits, intelligent chargers, flashlights with high/low discharge cutoff, multimeter for testing, everything.

If you're doing all this, I see little reason to be afraid of li-ion's. I think you're missing out if you abandon them altogether.

I have been using 18650's in my e-cig mods for many years, I have seen them accidentally left on while sub ohming, down to where things melt. the batteries are still good and are still usable. I have also used unprotected laptop pack pulls and treated the like crap as well. Basically I am a poster boy for what not to with Li-Ions but have yet to have a single problem. No I am not bragging that I am so careless, I am just saying as much as I use them accidents happen and I yet I live.

Of course you should treat them better than I do, in which case you will have zero problems.

I personally think I'm going to stick to 1-2 18650 lights and only keep some cr123's for backup use. Not that 18650's couldn't have the same problems, but almost all the accidents I've seen have been with primary cr123's or rechargeable cr123's in series.

FOR SURE give your kids AA or AAA lights. These days there are AA lights multiple times more powerful than even just a few years ago so it's not like they are getting poopy lights. In fact most are powerhouses. If you are a flashaholic with kids let them slowly graduate into the higher power 18650 lights after seriously going over the proper careful handling and instructions about keeping cells charged properly in groups so as to keep the voltages the same. Something like a Fenix E25 or maybe a LD09 would be a good light for a kid. And with a good charger with a display it's basically foolproof. Just show them how to let it charge until "done" or just do the charging for them (or use alkalines).

This isn't a knock on subalpine at all, but I'm going to be super careful to try and not put a light I'm using near my face or in my mouth from now on. Also I think I'll start locking out my 18650 lights just for added safety. This thread reminds me too... I need to get a 16650 for my G2X.

I'll admit that subalpine thread was one of the threads that got me thinking. Scary stuff.

If little kids can use your lights, NO rechargeable lithium ion batteries. Stick to regular AA or AAA.

Also, NO multi-cell CR123 lights. Those have also been known to explode, especially if in series.

gurdygurds said:

I'll admit that subalpine thread was one of the threads that got me thinking. Scary stuff.

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What happened to subalpine is sobering, but so far we've insufficient detail and input from him to determine with certainty the cause.

What we can say is that, based on past incidents where further investigation eventually identified the cause, budget cells particularly in multi-cell light configurations are implicated far more often in these types of incidents than any other apparent cause.

I am not saying subalpine is at fault nor am I saying that the cells or charger he purchased are responsible. That said, given the reported nature of the failure, it is difficult to not suspect damaged cells played a key part in the incident. What's difficult to pin down is how the cells were damaged and when.

What isn't difficult to observe is that here is another incident of a significant failure of a multi-cell lithium-ion powered light.

Good cells from a reliable maker/brand run in single-cell lights are virtually never implicated in these types of incidents. The anecdotal evidence strongly suggests that it is perfectly possible to design and enjoy a safe lighting system comprised of a known good charger (i.e. technically reviewed by HJK or 45/70 or other members here), good cells from reputable sellers, and well built lights - run by someone like yourself who is concerned about safety. If you want to reduce the risk and worry burden, only run single cell lights and sleep even better.

Bottom line: You shouldn't be concerned about the same sort of thing happening to you if you've set the stage differently.

Would I let young children play with li-ion powered lights? No. I'd rather they have access to lower-output lights (to protect their eyesight) and AA NiMH rechargeable power (to guard against the kind of abuse kids will sometimes dish out).

Now that my kids are older they use any light in the house.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal"

http://i.imgur.com/enSDkOl.png

Image tags removed see Rule #3 Do not Hot Link images. Please host on an image site, Imageshack or similar and repost – Thanks Norm


Just throwing this out there... scientific experiments
You know they're not really people, right?
--
For any that have trouble here, I've seen children do things people can't do, in the amoral sense. What kids do, we should hold the parents accountable, but we can't because some kids are just wrong. Its not the fault of the parent. A kid is an ethical anomoly. It is not obvious that the only best thing you can do to them is love them, leaving everything else aside.

Sorry, I'm a little blinded tonight, hope my vision comes back. I can't quite see the screen to read, but I can still type and post. So probably means I shouldn't post any more tnight.

StarHalo said:

No Li-ions with kids;

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Depends on how much you care about the lion. >:3 rawr



supalpine if you're reading, hope you have no pain, and your difficulties from your injuries are receding.

gurdygurds said:

thinking that there is even a chance of something going wrong freaks me out.

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The way I see it, there are plenty of great lights out there that use AA and AAA NiMh cells. Take one more worry out of your life and lose the lithium-ion cells until you feel comfortable using them again.

gurdygurds said:

Very recently, after reading a bunch of threads about the dangers of lithium ion batteries, I decided that I am probably going to stick to AA and AAA Powered lights. I think what I have is pretty safe, Eagletac 3400 protected and Nitecore i2 intellicharger used in Fenix lights, but still thinking that there is even a chance of something going wrong freaks me out. Also I have kids that like to use my lights and I don't want that risk. Am I being overly paranoid, or has anyone else decided to pass on lithium ion altogether?


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Click to expand...

I agree, better get rid of that petrol power lawn mower (stick the push type) and swap your car for a bicycle too.

While at it, mains electricity is hugely dangerous too, so maybe see if you can get your house disconnected.

gurdygurds said:

Very recently, after reading a bunch of threads about the dangers of lithium ion batteries, I decided that I am probably going to stick to AA and AAA Powered lights. I think what I have is pretty safe, Eagletac 3400 protected and Nitecore i2 intellicharger used in Fenix lights, but still thinking that there is even a chance of something going wrong freaks me out. Also I have kids that like to use my lights and I don't want that risk. Am I being overly paranoid, or has anyone else decided to pass on lithium ion altogether?

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Click to expand...

You are going to have a hard time finding a replacement for the LiIon battery in your phone.
You might also have a lot of other gadgets with LiIon batteries.

gurdygurds said:

No they've never been allowed to use my 18650 lights. They each have their own E01s. And that's just it, that if it's another thing that could potentially be a problem, or that I need to be paranoid while the batteries are on the charger, maybe it's best to stick with the safe stuff. I have been known to make hasty decisions and change my mind a lot so trying to think this through. Leaning towards the safe route.

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On a more serious note. What if they get into the world of RC planes, helis' or cars. They all use similar batteries to Li-ion (LiPo). And they need just as much monitoring and are usually charged in a fire proof bag.

http://cdn.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/catalog/T5000-6-20.jpg

Image tags removed see Rule #3 Do not Hot Link images. Please host on an image site, Imageshack or similar and repost – Thanks Norm

When you can get 4xAA lights that can put out 1000 lumens, I don't see the need to go for 18650 lights.

The 4xAA lights aren't really EDC size, but IMO neither are 18650 lights (just a little too large). 1xAA or 1xAAA serve my EDC purpose, and you can get some that put out close to 400 lumens. Do you really need more for EDC?