Quad 165x100mm Upgrades

First time poster hoping to reduce my confusion about Quad 165x100mm headlight upgrades.

My daily driver is a 1985 Volvo 740 with quad 165x100mm headlights. Nighttime driving, especially in rain or even wet roads is no longer satisfactory and I wish to improve the performance of the low beams. Really evident when a new car pulls up alongside and I momentarily get spoiled by the illumination that they provide. Realizing that there is nothing comparable performance-wise in the 165x100 form factor, but there should be something I can find to improve the output.

I know better than to fall for the ebay HID conversions, etc. but other than that I don't know what to trust. I found Truck-lite 27010 that appear to be good quality, and they state "Exceeds DOT minimum requirements by an average of 300% low beam & 225% high beam" but how does that compare to the Sylvania halogen sealed beam that are currently installed? Yes I have seen the posts describing the worn out tooling for manufacturing the common halogen sealed beams so at least the Truck-lite build quality should be better, no?

My plan is to:
1. Inspect current headlamp wiring and measure voltage drop. If found subpar (probably will), replace with thicker wire and relays.
2. Obtain, install, aim upgraded low beam headlamps.

I realize that there are likely no newest technology solutions (LED, HID, etc.) for this form factor, as there is not sufficient money in this market niche for the manufacturers to develop product.

Seems like I see the quad 165x100 setups on firetrucks, city busses-- are they all as weak as mine?

Maybe the best solution is the GE Nighthawk? Anybody have actual real-world experience with those?

antone said:

First time poster

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Welcome to the board!

My daily driver is a 1985 Volvo 740 with quad 165x100mm headlights. Nighttime driving, especially in rain or even wet roads is no longer satisfactory and I wish to improve the performance of the low beams. Really evident when a new car pulls up alongside and I momentarily get spoiled by the illumination that they provide. Realizing that there is nothing comparable performance-wise in the 165x100 form factor

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That's not true. If you have the cash, you can have extremely good LED headlamps which will bring your old Volvo's headlamp performance up to the upper-new-cars range, without need of upgraded wiring.

I found Truck-lite 27010 that appear to be good quality, and they state "Exceeds DOT minimum requirements by an average of 300% low beam & 225% high beam"

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Avoid. These are junk imported from a country with a track record of producing poor-quality consumer goods with falsified safety and performance certifications, and those numbers are bogus nonsense. (And be very careful not to be misled or lulled into thinking something is good quality because something about it looks that way to you).

how does that compare to the Sylvania halogen sealed beam

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These are a different kind of useless junk.

I realize that there are likely no newest technology solutions (LED, HID, etc.) for this form factor, as there is not sufficient money in this market niche for the manufacturers to develop product.

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That's really not true. In addition to the good JW Speaker LED headlamps, there are lesser LED headlamps (no other ones that can be called worthy of their price yet, but there probably will be within the next three years or so). And there are decent replaceable-bulb halogen lamps in this size. Not as many as there used to be, but they are still out there. It's a little tricky to navigate because even the relatively few bona fide manufacturers sometimes have multiple variants in a given size, and some of them are much better than others. I suggest you send email to Daniel Stern and see what he's currently recommending.

Seems like I see the quad 165x100 setups on firetrucks, city busses-- are they all as weak as mine?

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Yes, unless (like the transit buses in my city) they are now running the JW Speaker LEDs.

Maybe the best solution is the GE Nighthawk?

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There are a couple of different GE Nighthawk sealed beams to fit your Volvo. Either of them would do a better job than the Sylvanias you have now; this one in particular (though it would require you to install a different type of headlight socket). They are cheap. However, they are also short-lived and would really want a relay installation to bring full system voltage to the lamps (which would make them better still, but at the cost of shorter lifespan).

-Virgil- said:

...you can have extremely good LED headlamps which will bring your old Volvo's headlamp performance up to the upper-new-cars range, without need of upgraded wiring.

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Nice! I found the 8800 there to be the plug'n'play model for my car. A bit too spendy for me right now; I have a kid to get thru college yet.

Thanks for the heads up on that Truck-lite model I had found. Obviously I did not really know how to judge its quality.

-Virgil- said:

In addition to the good JW Speaker LED headlamps, there are lesser LED headlamps (no other ones that can be called worthy of their price yet, but there probably will be within the next three years or so).

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Just to clarify: Are you stating that the other LED headlamps are currently not worth pursuing?

-Virgil- said:

And there are decent replaceable-bulb halogen lamps in this size. Not as many as there used to be, but they are still out there. It's a little tricky to navigate because even the relatively few bona fide manufacturers sometimes have multiple variants in a given size, and some of them are much better than others.

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How would they stack up against the preferred GE sealed beam model H4666NH Nighthawk?

-Virgil- said:

I suggest you send email to Daniel Stern and see what he's currently recommending.

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Can do.

Welcome to the CandlePowerForums, antone!

antone said:

I found Truck-lite 27010 that appear to be good quality, and they state "Exceeds DOT minimum requirements by an average of 300% low beam & 225% high beam"

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-Virgil- said:

Avoid. These are junk

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So, Truck-Lite's following Grote in their footsteps towards just rebranding junk? Say it isn't so! Guess that just means more money for J.W. Speaker, who so far are not playing that game. (I fully support them in their "made in America" effort. Not as a matter of nationalism or plain jingoism, but as a matter of economics.)

Alaric Darconville said:

So, Truck-Lite's following Grote in their footsteps towards just rebranding junk?

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No, Truck-Lite has had those lamps (made by this company) in their product line for 10 years or so. Grote only started rebranding the offshore LED lamps just recently. I used to see a fair number of the "Truck-Lite" replaceable-bulb halogen lamps on Kenworth trucks, often with the bulb shield broken off and rock-and-rolling around in the lamp, with its sharp broken edges scraping up the reflector. I haven't looked recently, but when I looked at these lamps not long after they first came out, the list of problems with them was pretty long. Some of the problems were extremely elementary, the kind of error that isn't made even by people who have done just a quick and basic read-up on headlamps.

Guess that just means more money for J.W. Speaker

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That would be nice, but a lot of fleet buyers see one thing and one thing only: the purchase price. "They all say DOT, so which one has the lowest price?" As a result, junk like the Dialight or Optronics "headlamps" finds its way onto vehicles. Performance is roughly equal to the worst sealed beam you can find, but the light color is different, so there's a perceived improvement (it also doesn't help that usually the headlamps, no matter what brand, don't get aimed closer than plus or minus five inches or so).

antone said:

Nice! I found the 8800 there to be the plug'n'play model for my car.

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That's right. And they're now improved.

Just to clarify: Are you stating that the other LED headlamps are currently not worth pursuing?

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That's correct.

How would they stack up against the preferred GE sealed beam model H4666NH Nighthawk?

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If you pick your replaceable-bulb halogen lamps carefully, they will give better overall beam performance than the NH sealed beams, and also will be more cost-effective in the long run.

Results from voltage drop test:

+ side 1.2VDC voltage drop
- side 0.15VDC voltage drop

This tested only drivers side, since I did not have my longer jumper test wire available to test passenger side (battery is right behind the drivers headlamp).

So my first task is to upgrade the wiring and add relays. I have 14ga primary wire, Bosch relays, connectors, heatshrink tubing left over from another project.

You might not want to charge ahead just yet, not until you decide what headlamps you'll be installing. This decision can change the details of how you configure the relays and new wiring.

Yes, I could see the connector that plugs into the back of the headlamp might need to be different, but the relay configuration should be similar, no?

It depends on whether you wind up with high/low beams or pure low beams in the outboard spaces, and some other variables. Even with better wiring, the existing lamps won't work well, so figure on replacing them -- at least get a reasonable target lock on what you'll be installing before you go ahead with the wiring, otherwise you could easily have to undo and redo a fair amount of work.

Ha, I came here looking for the same answer for an '89 740. I was going to get a single-lens E-code H4 housing, but the JW Speaker 8800 Evolution seems to be just the ticket for better low beams (not to be confused with the non-Evolution 8800 which has combined high and low beams). Sanity check before I buy a pair for $600?

Tremelune said:

Ha, I came here looking for the same answer for an '89 740. I was going to get a single-lens E-code H4 housing, but the JW Speaker 8800 Evolution seems to be just the ticket for better low beams (not to be confused with the non-Evolution 8800 which has combined high and low beams). Sanity check before I buy a pair for $600?

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Thata a lot of money to spend on a 27 year old car residing in the salt belt.How is the overall condition of the car? Rust issues? I would want to make sure the car is in good enough shape to last awhile yet before sinking $600 into headlights!

The car is rust-free and is currently sporting a 5.7L V8 and a 6-speed manual transmission.

Your sanity check "cashes" -- the JW Speaker 8800 Evolution is the cream of the crop in 165 x 100mm headlamps. There are new Truck-Lite ones (see here) that I would probably be happy to drive with too, but I would still regard the Speaker items as the best. I need to get some detailed experience with the new Truck-Lites. A Speaker low beam/Truck-Lite high beam combo might make a really nice overall setup less expensive than four of the Speakers.

Excellent. I will purchase a pair for the lows. For the highs, I'm just gonna go with a set of Bosche ECE H1 housings. Since the beam pattern doesn't need to be exceptionally well controlled, I'm happy to throw power at it in the form of a proper harness and a pair of 100w Narva or 130w Hella halogens.

Dedicated high beam housings have put out beastly lighting for decades if your charging system is up for it. It's really the requirements/courtesy of the low beams that make upgrading tricky.

Don't use 130w bulbs by any maker, and don't use Hella-branded bulbs of any wattage. They'll downgrade your ability to see, not upgrade it.

Interesting. Daniel Stern said the same thing. He's recommending Narva/Flosser 100w H1s in a Hella housing:

Hella bulbs are a poor choice no matter the wattage. Hella's bulbs are PFR (purchase for resale). They don't make bulbs, they buy, label, box and sell them. Quality has been mediocre since they started shopping on price in India and China rather than shopping on quality in Europe.

130w bulbs are also a poor choice, no matter what brand. As wattage increases, the size of the filament necessarily increases, both in length and in diameter. This has a strongly negative effect on beam focus -- the more closely the filament approximates a point source of light, the better the beam focus, and the greater the size of the filament the poorer the beam focus. Effective seeing distance plummets. At the same time, foreground light goes to nuclear levels, which does two things at the same time:

1) It fools you into thinking you've got "excellent" lighting. We humans are very poor subjective judges of our visual performance; it's very easy to create situations in which we think/feel we can see much better (or much worse) than we actually can.

2) It absolutely kills your distance vision. The brightly-lit foreground causes your pupils to constrict, with the result that you can meaningfully see all the irrelevant stuff going on within 50 feet of the car, and beyond that, you're effectively blind.

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All that is right. Narva and Flosser are fine brands, so are Philips and Osram and Tungsram.

OP here. I replaced the low beams with GE 4656 NH (Nighthawk). Went with the 4656 instead of the 4666 for the convenience of plug-n-play. Still have not wired in the relays but can report the Nighthawks are already a definite improvement over the Sylvania xtravision sealed beams I had in there previously. Especially the peripheral is much stronger now.

I bought some spares based on your warning on the shorter lifespan. We'll see how long they last. I don't remember the last time I replaced an actual burned out lamp; always seems to be rock-damaged or somehow a seal failed and they get wet inside. In fact the Sylvania I just replaced had water inside, no visible damage otherwise.

Thank You! for the advice.

My solution above did not disappoint.