OE Vehicle Lighting That Makes You Go "Ugh"

Franco

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I was reading a review of the 2016 Kia Sorento SX Limited when I saw the front fog lights:

Link to Autoweek (Go to 5th picture)

I made an audible sigh. If it wasn't enough that the fog lights were on when conditions don't call for them, look at the size of the suckers! Upper trim levels seem to have four little LED lights while lower trims have an incandescent setup. Can't wait to come across those units at night...

Which reminds me of what BMW is currently doing on their "X" (SUV) lineup:

Another Link to Autoweek (1st and 3rd pictures show the problem)

I don't think that the fog lights could be placed much higher if they tried. What's the point?

There are surely plenty of other debatable (to be kind) headlights out there, so let's vent. What OE vehicular lighting systems out there have you shaking your head?
 

Steve K

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On the basis of aesthetics, the Nissan Juke lights have me saying "what the ....?"
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2011-nissan-juke-review-0/#image-3
On the plus side, it's nice to see the turn signals moved away from the headlights so that I have a chance of seeing them at night.

For fog lights in general, there needs to be driver education about their use. I constantly see vehicles with fog lights turned on during clear weather. I know that the fog light option on my humble Mazda 3 was fairly pricey, so perhaps people want to get their money's worth out of them? Of course, using that logic, people would start using their turn signals too. :)
 

Supur-Lyte

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If it wasn't enough that the fog lights were on when conditions don't call for them...

Have you seen the Ram (Dodge) commercial in which the guy starts his truck in the driveway, and both the headlamps and fog lamps light despite there being no fog, blizzard or monsoon?

Did any of you click the link to the Lamborghini Aventador SV Roadster winter testing article? How do you like those Hellas?
 

boo5ted

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IIRC the Kia those are the DRL, and I'm sure BMW engineers have their reasons on the light placement.
 
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-Virgil-

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My vote for OE lighting that makes me go 'ugh' is on a Korean crossover, I forget which one (obviously a Hyundai or Kia model) that has the stop/tail lights up in the main light cluster, and the turn signals way down in red horizontal strips down near the bottom of the bumper fascia. It's difficult to tell the signals are on the same car as the stop lights. The design of the rear lighting is a cheap knockoff of an Audi Q (which has similar horizontal strip lights down in the bumper...but they're only active when the tailgate is raised, because then the main lights are pointed at the sky).

Similar "ugh" for other cases of excessively large separation, such as certain Land Rovers and the Nissan 350Z(?). Opposite "ugh" for the opposite case of lamps crammed too close together, either a red turn signal that's invisible when the driver's braking or a giant red stop light dwarfing a tiny amber turn signal.

Big "ugh" for red rear turn signals of any kind, actually. Exasperated "ugh" for no side turn signal visibility...I understand not wanting to add a dedicated repeater that's not legally required in North America, but all cars have to have side marker lights, and it costs nothing to make the front ones flash with the turn signals, which is way better than nothing.

Giant "ugh" for inadequately durable plastic headlamp lenses.
 

Alaric Darconville

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My vote for OE lighting that makes me go 'ugh' is on a Korean crossover, I forget which one (obviously a Hyundai or Kia model) that has the stop/tail lights up in the main light cluster, and the turn signals way down in red horizontal strips down near the bottom of the bumper fascia. It's difficult to tell the signals are on the same car as the stop lights. The design of the rear lighting is a cheap knockoff of an Audi Q (which has similar horizontal strip lights down in the bumper...but they're only active when the tailgate is raised, because then the main lights are pointed at the sky).
The ones with the rear turns way down in the bumper confuse me. I always expect those to be the rear fog lamps.
I like to think that higher-mounted turn signals are better for when the hazard lights are activated-- it gives much more visibility from a distance to be high up. The bumper mounted ones might not be so visible at great distances.

Opposite "ugh" for the opposite case of lamps crammed too close together, either a red turn signal that's invisible when the driver's braking or a giant red stop light dwarfing a tiny amber turn signal.
Another dislike.

Big "ugh" for red rear turn signals of any kind, actually.
Some people actually paint their yellow turn signals red.

Exasperated "ugh" for no side turn signal visibility...I understand not wanting to add a dedicated repeater that's not legally required in North America, but all cars have to have side marker lights, and it costs nothing to make the front ones flash with the turn signals, which is way better than nothing.
It costs $.0054/vehicle. That's HUNDREDS of dollars over a model year!

One of my big "ughs" is rear turn signals with a clear lens and a colored bulb. Washout happens quite a bit on those, it seems. Would a DupliColor MetalCast Yellow treatment be suitable for the outer lens of such a turn signal, to help mitigate the washout/potential phantom signal?

One last "ugh": "Crossover" :p
 

Franco

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On the basis of aesthetics, the Nissan Juke lights have me saying "what the ....?"

I remember seeing those for the first time, a very different design to be sure.

I know that the fog light option on my humble Mazda 3 was fairly pricey, so perhaps people want to get their money's worth out of them? Of course, using that logic, people would start using their turn signals too.

I get the distinct impression that fog lights are for showing people you spent money on a trim level or vehicle with fog lights, not much else... Good point about the turn signals!

IIRC the Kia those are the DRL, and I'm sure BMW engineers have their reasons on the light placement.

Kia's website states that the lower units are indeed fog lights. The DRLs seem to be part of the actual headlight units.


Virgil
and Alaric, something that I really don't like is the high headlight height of some vehicles; but is that more of a discomfort glare issue than an actual safety issue?
 

boo5ted

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Jeep Cherokee. Three seperate housing for turn signal/drl, headlight and fog. It looks like a squirrel squinting.
 

Alaric Darconville

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Virgil and Alaric, something that I really don't like is the high headlight height of some vehicles; but is that more of a discomfort glare issue than an actual safety issue?

Higher low beam mounting height means greater seeing distance-- and more glare for people within the high-intensity zone (below the glare zones). In the USA, VOR headlamps are aimed with the cutoff at the horizon, so the higher the low beam mounting height, the more likely you'll find yourself in the high-intensity portion of the beam.

VOL headlamps are aimed with the cutoff 0.4 degrees (or 0.7%, which works out to 2.1 inches at 25 feet), whether the vehicle is a Toyota Tundra or a Scion FRS.

It can certainly be a safety issue-- the vehicles with the higher-mounted low beams do generate more glare for everyone else whose seating position is comparatively lower (the guy in the Scion FRS approaching the F150 gets more glare than the guy in the F150 does from the FRS). The people with the higher-mounted low beams are also more likely to feel comfortable driving at higher speeds than low beams should allow. (And with Oklahoma State Law saying that people in pickup trucks are required to also turn on their fog lamps while towing, and otherwise drive like total jerks1​, everyone in the little cars suffers.)

In UNECE signatories, headlamp aim *IS* linked to headlamp mounting height, which helps even it out a little bit. Still, a tailgating truck is probably still going to fill your Miata's rear-view mirror with glaring goodness.
1​Not actual Oklahoma State Law
 
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MichaelW

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Ah, the KIA Sportage, and they use red, whereas they use amber elsewhere.
9090_2015_Sportage-1.jpg
Saw a Cadillac Escalade with LED headlights this morning, there was light fog and it was terrible-glaring and blue. And new Acura MDX with LEDs, terrible blue fringing above the horizon.
 

boo5ted

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The blue you see is the spectrum from the cut off.
 
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-Virgil-

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Some people actually paint their yellow turn signals red.

Yes, and some people paint their taillights black, or put in clear lenses with white or blue bulbs, or stick Ford-logo masks over their taillights, or black covers over their headlamps, or put in "HID kits" or "LED bulbs", etc. All of that is stupid, but most people don't do any of it, and none of it really fits in the topic of "OE vehicle lighting".

One of my big "ughs" is rear turn signals with a clear lens and a colored bulb. Washout happens quite a bit on those, it seems.

It seems worse with reflector-optic/window-lens type lamps than it was when the lens was the light dispersing surface.

Would a DupliColor MetalCast Yellow treatment be suitable for the outer lens of such a turn signal, to help mitigate the washout/potential phantom signal?

Don't know...maybe!

One last "ugh": "Crossover" :p

I'm not much of a fan of that word, either, but they didn't ask me. When I wore a younger man's clothes, we used to call those "station wagons".
 

Alaric Darconville

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Yes, and some people paint their taillights black, or put in clear lenses with white or blue bulbs, or stick Ford-logo masks over their taillights, or black covers over their headlamps, or put in "HID kits" or "LED bulbs", etc. All of that is stupid, but most people don't do any of it, and none of it really fits in the topic of "OE vehicle lighting".
I just mentioned that they paint them red because they think it looks so cool-- I almost wonder if someone skips buying a particular car just because "well, I love the stereo and it looks great and drives great, but I'd rather have *red* rear turn signals".

It does seem that automakers are catering to the form-over-function crowd in too many respects. Granted, they do it at least legally, but sometimes it seems like they're still sacrificing real safety in the pursuit of the consumer's dollar.

It seems worse with reflector-optic/window-lens type lamps than it was when the lens was the light dispersing surface.
It seems that way to me, too.

When I wore a younger man's clothes, we used to call those "station wagons".
What happened to those halcyon days?
 

haha1234

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My answer has to be most pre-2000 US non-sealed beam headlights, particularly 9004 and 9007 systems! Around 2000 we got partial harmonization which made SAE/ECE lights possible (suich as on the Mk1 Focus).

And of course the lame red turn signals and absolutely idiotic combination stop/tail/turn signals!
 

-Virgil-

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I just mentioned that they paint them red because they think it looks so cool

Apparently there is nothing new under the sun (read this linked article from 1963 all the way through to the end...I wouldn't want to see a return to the state-by-state chaos that existed before the US had national/Federal regulations, but I would like to see a return to law enforcement officers enforcing vehicle codes.)
 

Alaric Darconville

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I would like to see a return to law enforcement officers enforcing vehicle codes.

It's pretty unlikely for someone to really be "subject to arrest" for modifying their vehicle lights nowadays. I've run out of fingers counting cars whose rear lamps have been spraypainted black (with that "translucent" paint that TOTALLY lets the light shine through, duh! Don't H8!). Thanks, CAPA and SEMA and your ilk. You've doomed us all.

Also: When amber got the green light everywhere
I see what they did there.
 
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sadtimes

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It's pretty unlikely for someone to really be "subject to arrest" for modifying their vehicle lights nowadays. I've run out of fingers counting cars whose rear lamps have been spraypainted black (with that "translucent" paint that TOTALLY lets the light shine through, duh! Don't H8!). Thanks, CAPA and SEMA and your ilk. You've doomed us all.

Also: When amber got the green light everywhere
I see what they did there.

While I may be the exception, I have jailed drivers for HID kits (uncommon, but it has happened) and written several hundred tickets for illegal lights, be it HID, LED, tinted lights, etc.
 
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