Lights that are ALMOST perfect - and what went wrong.

This thread is for the real head-scratchers... those lights that make you wonder "what were they thinking?" They come SO close to perfection, then drop the ball and do something REALLY stupid. (Are you listening, manufacturers? Here is a thread that can help you avoid these blunders in the future!).


Here are the ones I can think of:


Sunwayman C21C - the light that had the most promise for my needs, but completely failed it. Where is the moonlight modes? Why no pocket clip on an angle-headed light? Stupid, stupid, stupid.


Zebralight everything: Almost perfect lights. Change one TINY thing in the UI and they would be! Short press from off to activate "low", long or double-click for "high". I keep blinding myself at night trying for just the right length "long click" for moonlight, I only get it right about half the time. COMPLETELY ruins these lights for me! At least offer some kind of super-buried toggle option so people who like the UI the way it is can keep it that way, and people like me can stop blinding themselves with unwanted turbo mode.



Nitecore SRT series - my current EDC (SRT5). Get rid of the stupid, annoying flashing blue/red "cop" mode, and replace that ring position with a battery level indicator mode and these lights would be almost perfect. Offer a Neutral-White version and replace the blue emitter with green and they would be completely perfect.


Sunwayman V11R - Add a "ball bearing and spring" friction-maker to the ring instead of relying on grease. Offer NW or high CRI emitter as a standard option. Offer an 18650 extender tube. I'd gladly pay extra. Such a disappointing near-perfect light!


JETBeam RRT0 - Years ago, I bought some Neutral White RRT0 Raptors. The old magnetic ring with 4-indent models, before continuously variable models existed. Loved them, but the low was too bright. Now, you have a beautiful full-variable ring with nice super-low, but no Neutral White emitter to be found. Why? So lame.



EagleTac D25A Clicky - Perfect in every way, but one. 14500 Li-Ion destroys the moonlight mode. Ouch! So close to perfection - it's even available in Titanium with N219 emitter! So sad.



Sunwayman D40A - Perfect! Except... High-Med-Low mode cycling. Must have had their heads on backwards that day!


Eagletac D25LC2 Color - A near perfect multi-color 18650 light... except... where are the true low/moonlight modes? Makes it completely useless for most of what I want a RGB-emitter light for. Plus - what's up with the red/blue flashing "cop" mode? Does anyone over about 8 years old actually think this is cool somehow? Maybe it's an Asian thing or something... everyone I know just thinks it's retarded. Much more useful would be mix the green and red emitters to make a flashing yellow emergency/caution flasher. There might actually be a few buyers who would actually use that!


Most manufacturers: What's up with all the cool-white garbage? I understand for super-throwers where every lumen counts... but for pocketable EDC lights? JETBeam is the worst offender - not a single Neutral emitter to be had in their entire lineup, but so many other manufactures are almost as bad... The flashlight buying public CAN'T be that stupid (well... maybe...), there have been so many years of super-bright glaring washed out putrid purple-blue-green emitters, buyers are starting to want something that looks better. C'mon guys - make it happen!

+1 on the ZL part

Every multi-twist light ever made without mode-memory. Because having to twist the light over and over to get back to the setting I was using 30 seconds ago will do wonders for my productivity, and won't get annoying at all. Bonus points if the light is made from titanium with small-gauge threads that will grind themselves to death in no time.

As for the cool-white vs. neutral-white debate: Some people say cool-white flashlights make their eyes hurt, ruin the colors, and make objects look flat with no depth-of-field, while other people say warm-white flashlights make their eyes hurt, ruin the colors, and make objects look flat with no depth-of-field. I fall in the second camp. Cool-white is much easier for me to see with. Neutral-white is fine as long as it's Hi-CRI, otherwise I can't use it. As for the reason flashlight manufacturers don't use neutral-white emitters more, I think it's a matter of public expectation: people expect LEDs to be bright, snowy-white, and those who can't stand them are usually content to buy an incandescent flashlight instead. CPF represents probably 0.1% of the people who buy GOOD flashlights, to say nothing of the people who buy whatever's available at the dollar store.

disagree with Zebra Part!
"unfortunately", for me the Zebra UI is simply perfect,
even on the mountainbike - my main use for the zebra - it works as it should and ANY other "method" would immediately skip me from getting the next updated model
If it would not work for the majority of customers, it would not be like this

imho the manufaturers listen to what comes back form the customers and then do what most of them want, unfortunately letting out the few with "special needs"
bad when one is one of these
;-)

(example, happened to me and quite a number of others: Fenix!
When they entered the market, we - the early adopters of there lights (L2T, L2P, ...) - helped them get into the field, but then they no longer listened to our wishes --> a SMALL successor without all those silly "teeth" for the tactical crowd and LOW low level.
In the end I feel to be much better off to have switched to individual P60 lights and never again checked their offerings)

Cool white seems brighter, meaning you will get more lumens out of it than a neutral tint. For me is the Olight M2X Javelot and the M3X are almost perfect, except for the twisting of the heads which is annoying. I do not understand why the threads get so dirty so easily and when they do, I cannot get it to change modes. The other thing that is annoying is the freaking strobe mode. Completely unnecessary feature considering you have to click it three times fast to access it. In an emergency situation you wont be able to access it anyway, unless it had a dedicated button just for it.

fyrstormer said:

Every multi-twist light ever made without mode-memory. Because having to twist the light over and over to get back to the setting I was using 30 seconds ago will do wonders for my productivity, and won't get annoying at all. Bonus points if the light is made from titanium with small-gauge threads that will grind themselves to death in no time.

As for the cool-white vs. neutral-white debate: Some people say cool-white flashlights make their eyes hurt, ruin the colors, and make objects look flat with no depth-of-field, while other people say warm-white flashlights make their eyes hurt, ruin the colors, and make objects look flat with no depth-of-field. I fall in the second camp. Cool-white is much easier for me to see with. Neutral-white is fine as long as it's Hi-CRI, otherwise I can't use it. As for the reason flashlight manufacturers don't use neutral-white emitters more, I think it's a matter of public expectation: people expect LEDs to be bright, snowy-white, and those who can't stand them are usually content to buy an incandescent flashlight instead. CPF represents probably 0.1% of the people who buy GOOD flashlights, to say nothing of the people who buy whatever's available at the dollar store.

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Some valid points in your post. I also prefer high CRI... but it does come at the expense of brightness. Not everyone is OK with that tradeoff. I have somewhat sensitive eyes, thus my preference for moonlight modes and neutral emitters. Some people just want it BRIGHT, and don't care about tint, color rendition, and glare.

As for mode memory, I like it too... just as long as there's a way to "override" it and get instant moonlight or turbo from the off position. That's most of what I like about mag ring lights and twisty head mode-select lights like EagleTac - combines the best of both worlds.

yellow said:

(example, happened to me and quite a number of others: Fenix!
When they entered the market, we - the early adopters of there lights (L2T, L2P, ...) - helped them get into the field, but then they no longer listened to our wishes --> a SMALL successor without all those silly "teeth" for the tactical crowd and LOW low level.

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The "teeth" are not for tactical use; they're not sharp enough or hardened enough for that. The crenelations, as they're properly called, are there so you can see if you left the light on when you set it down bezel-down. A smooth bezel resting on a smooth surface will seal the light from escaping, so you might not notice you're wasting battery power until you pick up the light again and discover it's screaming-hot.

Amelia said:

Eagletac D25LC2 Color - A near perfect multi-color 18650 light... except... where are the true low/moonlight modes? Makes it completely useless for most of what I want a RGB-emitter light for. Plus - what's up with the red/blue flashing "cop" mode?

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I second that their "1% low" isn't quite low enough. I just wonder why they didn't involve all four emitter dies instead of that red/blue flashy. Fortunately the "police mode" is so well hidden and hard to activate, it isn't a problem for me. I pretend it isn't there. I hate strobes, btw. Personal opinion.

Amelia said:

Most manufacturers: What's up with all the cool-white garbage?

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Actual cool white? Okay. Purple-white? Nein danke! It drives me nuts. That's the fastest way to make a light that I'll never use. Even the emitters with the greenish tint in the white are less annoying to me. Something about that purple/blue white tinge makes me want to start ranting, so I'd better stop.

I prefer bluish-white to greenish-white, but I prefer snow-white above both. (though my favorite tint is 5500K, just a bit warmer than snow-white.) Purplish-white, on the other hand, is a clear indicator of an LED that is being fed too much voltage -- even if the overall wattage is kept in-check to prevent overheating, excess voltage will still change the tint of the blue emitter underlying the yellow phosphor. There was one flashlight, the Arc6, that used this to its advantage so each light could be "tuned" to produce the same tint despite variations from one LED to the next, but that technology never trickled out to the rest of Lumendom because improvements in production consistency made it a non-issue.

fyrstormer said:

The "teeth" are not for tactical use; they're not sharp enough or hardened enough for that. The crenelations, as they're properly called, are there so you can see if you left the light on when you set it down bezel-down. A smooth bezel resting on a smooth surface will seal the light from escaping, so you might not notice you're wasting battery power until you pick up the light again and discover it's screaming-hot.

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All of which hasn't kept some manufacturers (**Cough Nightcore Cough**) from marketing this as a "Tactical" feature (Anyone remember the original level-ramping "Defender" with its "Deadly ninja spiked bezel"? The thing I read about all that which put it in perspective was a writer who said "If you are good enough to effectively use this flashlight as a weapon, you're good enough to not NEED the flashlight for a weapon" or something to that effect. I'm a small, weak chick - give me a gun instead!

The best thing you can do in a threat situation is be really good at sprinting, because even a gun can be wrestled away from you and used against you at close range, but that's a different topic.

Yes, there are some manufacturers who market the crenelated bezels as a tactical feature, but we Illuminati on CPF know better. (quantum pun simultaneously intended and unintended.) In fact, CPF prohibits the discussion of flashlights as weapons specifically because they're *not* weapons, even if they have pointy bits. Even a stick can be used to hit someone, but that doesn't make it a weapon, because sticks are designed to hold leaves, and any other uses are incidental (or even accidental). The crenelations are there so you can see if you left the light on, and when they're done nicely they're an attractive visual feature, that's all.

So there's one we can add to the list: Flashlights that work really well but are only available with ridiculously-exaggerated crenelations that are only really useful for tearing holes in your pockets. Fortunately I don't think there are many of those left nowadays.

Amelia said:

All of which hasn't kept some manufacturers (**Cough Nightcore Cough**) from marketing this as a "Tactical" feature (Anyone remember the original level-ramping "Defender" with its "Deadly ninja spiked bezel"?

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fyrstormer said:

So there's one we can add to the list: Flashlights that work really well but are only available with ridiculously-exaggerated crenelations that are only really useful for tearing holes in your pockets. Fortunately I don't think there are many of those left nowadays.

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Heh! Have you see the Microfire "Teeth of Tiger" or the discontinued Veleno designs flashlight knife?

"Teeth of Tiger:" http://microfire-system.com/ProductsList.aspx?ProductTypeId=14&CurrIndex=1
Can't find a pic at the moment with the cren bezel extended, though. It looks pretty wicked and retractable. I think Gopajti might have one. Tempted to get a prepaid gift card and try a buy from the China. It isn't for "weapon." It's for "collection."

That Veleno is long gone, can't even find a pic.

How about the Coleman Exponent Flashlight Knife? $60 on Amazon.

Fenix TK75 ,awesome light and love it,but why no actual lock out,maybe holding both buttons for 2 or 3 seconds.........instead i have to undo tail cap several turns due to carrier........

mm15,the UI is ok,but could be a lot better,turbo access is just one example,early model when going from a mode level,it automatically goes back to low and cycles through.....

Why not hold full press to advance,1/2 press to drop levels(similar to tm06 for example)

srmini,love the light but modes are quite close,would prefer an extra mode,lower than (iirc lowest around 400lm measured by selfbuilt). Maybe a 50 or even 10lm mode.......
Turbo where you hold button down for instant,now i dont mind as it goes back to last mode selected once released which can be useful. However having a turbo regulated by temp would improve the light for many.

Will stop at the e25 burst or any fenix burst lights,it causes a longer time to max burst from off .........no deal breaker as like the light a lot,just prefer if it held the output.
It shuts off before turbo,although maybe a split second it still blinks........due to holding to turn off as part of the UI,keeping held(after off) a little longer for burst.

I could probably pick a hole,even a pin prick in most lights,hard to get perfect for everyone..............I can live with most,as with any light you get used to its "personality"

Cheers ven

Every single light ever made can be included in this thread by someone out there.

As far as ZL UI - I don't have any issues with it.

ahtoxa11 said:

Every single light ever made can be included in this thread by someone out there.

As far as ZL UI - I don't have any issues with it.

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The whole ZebraLight user interface discussion...

Even the L1 setting on my SC62d is too bright with dark adapted eyes, and it could very well be that I used that setting before going to bed. I have learned that if you point the beam away from your eyes toward the floor, it is easy enough to then make a quick double click to get to your choice sub-lumen level.

It is as close to perfect as I have used. One handed.

ahtoxa11 said:

Every single light ever made can be included in this thread by someone out there.

As far as ZL UI - I don't have any issues with it.

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I finally purchased my first Zebralight this spring. I was leery of the UI and the alleged difficulty in turning the light on in a mode other than turbo. After playing around with it for ten minutes and programming my secondary modes, I was convinced it is the best UI I ever used! I turn mine on in low without even having to think about it.

There are so many choices in lights out there today, and great print and video reviews of most of them, I think almost everyone can find a light they think is perfect for them (or darn close!).

Take it easy,
Bob

more_vampires said:

Heh! Have you see the Microfire "Teeth of Tiger" or the discontinued Veleno designs flashlight knife?

"Teeth of Tiger:" http://microfire-system.com/ProductsList.aspx?ProductTypeId=14&CurrIndex=1
Can't find a pic at the moment with the cren bezel extended, though. It looks pretty wicked and retractable. I think Gopajti might have one. Tempted to get a prepaid gift card and try a buy from the China. It isn't for "weapon." It's for "collection."

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Ask any real tiger, retractable teeth are worthless in battle.

Nitecore EX11.2

Wish they would have fixed the driver problem and not just drop the light.

Jetbeam RRT26, I really like magnetic ring lights and this one is a well built light with a nice beam. But they really dropped the ball with the power indicator, standby that is blinking green all the time is not very useful and is very annoying.

fyrstormer said:

Ask any real tiger, retractable teeth are worthless in battle.

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Sounds like a tiger answer as they have several of those on their feet.

Ever hear of the Tigerlight?