Opinions on Hella 4000 beam styles

Hello everyone, first post.

I was directed here by several different sites and figured this was the knowledge base from which to ask questions. I apologize if this has been asked before, but I've got an idea forming in my head and I have no idea if it's good or not. I have a Nissan D40 Frontier (or Navara for those of you outside NA) and I'm trying to decide on auxiliary lighting to mount on the ARB bullbar I have. I have looked at HIDs, LEDs, and halogens for the front of the truck. I liked the idea of LEDs, but I don't think they throw light far enough for what I do, which is why I'm going back to look at the Hella Rallye 4000s.

I do a lot of driving in the mountains at night, so deer, elk, and moose are my main concerns in these situations. I'd really like to be able to see beyond my high beams, and off to the side of the road a bit better. Most of the time I'll be at between 45-65 mph on roads like this. However, I also end up on narrow and winding off road trails at night, so in those situations I'd prefer as much side-to-side spread as I can get and distance doesn't really matter. With these two situations in mind, I'm trying to figure out what the optimal lights or combinations of lights would be. Here's my current thinking: maybe I should mount a Euro beam on one side of the bumper and a cornering beam or fog beam on the other side.

I feel like the pencil beams would be too focused, but perhaps the Euro beams wouldn't reach far enough? That being said, I'd be afraid that a single pencil beam wouldn't give enough spread at a distance and only light up the middle of the road. Would two Euro beams not give enough spread for use on trails? If I do go one beam style per side, which side should I be mounting them on? I'd assume the longer range beam should go in front of me, which the spread beam on the passenger side.

Any input you guys have would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

The technology used to make the light (tungsten-halogen, HID, LED) is not a major determinant of how effective the lamp will be. There are excellent, poor, and everything-in-between examples of all three types. You don't need to spend a big lot of money to meet the goals you've stated in terms of what you want to be able to see; additional money can buy additional light and/or niceties (such as vibrationproof, never-burn-out LED light sources) but additional money does not necessarily get you better lights -- there is a lot of overhyped product on the market.

The Hella 4000 family contains some very good lamps. Forget fog lamps, they're useless (and counter-indicated) for what you want to achieve. Be careful not to overlight the foreground; it is very easy to do so and will destroy your distance vision while creating the false impression of "excellent" lighting. For that reason among others, your two sets of goals (see at long distance at highway speeds...have wide field of vision without needing distance on off-road trails) would best be met by two pairs of lamps, do you have room on your bar (and in your budget) for four lamps?

-Virgil- said:

The technology used to make the light (tungsten-halogen, HID, LED) is not a major determinant of how effective the lamp will be. There are excellent, poor, and everything-in-between examples of all three types. You don't need to spend a big lot of money to meet the goals you've stated in terms of what you want to be able to see; additional money can buy additional light and/or niceties (such as vibrationproof, never-burn-out LED light sources) but additional money does not necessarily get you better lights -- there is a lot of overhyped product on the market.

The Hella 4000 family contains some very good lamps. Forget fog lamps, they're useless (and counter-indicated) for what you want to achieve. Be careful not to overlight the foreground; it is very easy to do so and will destroy your distance vision while creating the false impression of "excellent" lighting. For that reason among others, your two sets of goals (see at long distance at highway speeds...have wide field of vision without needing distance on off-road trails) would best be met by two pairs of lamps, do you have room on your bar (and in your budget) for four lamps?

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Unfortunately I've only got room for two lights on the bar. I do have recessed holes for lights in the bumper, but they are only 4" holes and I haven't figured out what would be the best light solution for those yet. Plus, I don't have a huge budget to play with right now. I was going to try to get the best mix I could with the large lamps on the bumper, then fill in the gaps with whatever 4" lights I decided on.

The Hella Rally 4000 Eurobeam would be your ideal choice for your stated style of 4 wheeling. The pencilbeam is too narrow and far reaching. I would recommend a set of Hella 550 driving lamps for your distance needs and will fit in the center area of your kangaroo bar. They turn on with your high beams and easily illuminate 3/4 of a mile. You would need a set of aux light tabs to mount the hella 4000 onto the crossbar. I have all these lights and the primary setup is for off-road racing.

I guess I should also note that the proverbial long and straight road is more or less nonexistent around here, especially in the areas I feel I need more light. I don't need to see something miles away, just need a little more range is all.

thslw8jg said:

The Hella Rally 4000 Eurobeam would be your ideal choice for your stated style of 4 wheeling. The pencilbeam is too narrow and far reaching. I would recommend a set of Hella 550 driving lamps for your distance needs and will fit in the center area of your kangaroo bar. They turn on with your high beams and easily illuminate 3/4 of a mile. You would need a set of aux light tabs to mount the hella 4000 onto the crossbar. I have all these lights and the primary setup is for off-road racing.

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I really only have room for two lights on the bumper itself, but I do have room for some smaller 4" lights in the cutouts on the front. Perhaps a set of Euro beams on the bumper and some broader lights in those cutouts?

WreckDiver1321 said:

I guess I should also note that the proverbial long and straight road is more or less nonexistent around here, especially in the areas I feel I need more light. I don't need to see something miles away, just need a little more range is all.

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Save yourself some cash and put a set of carefully-chosen Cibie lamp units (about $80/ea) in a set of PAR46 housings as described here. Housings are these (chromed steel) or these (chromed brass). I get my Cibies and bulbs/bits/bobs from Daniel Stern. You can pick your lamp units to emphasize beam reach or emphasize beam width, but either type will give a large, very effective boost to the OE Nissan high beams in both reach and width.

-Virgil- said:

Save yourself some cash and put a set of carefully-chosen Cibie lamp units (about $80/ea) in a set of PAR46 housings as described here. Housings are these (chromed steel) or these (chromed brass). I get my Cibies and bulbs/bits/bobs from Daniel Stern. You can pick your lamp units to emphasize beam reach or emphasize beam width, but either type will give a large, very effective boost to the OE Nissan high beams in both reach and width.

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This may sound a bit silly, but I'm not a fan of those housings. I'd prefer something not chromed and it would be kind of a pain to paint over these housings. Can I not get a decent setup with the 4000s? I'm okay with the price on the Hellas, but willing to look elsewhere for something more suited to my needs.

Thanks.

WreckDiver1321 said:

Unfortunately I've only got room for two lights on the bar. I do have recessed holes for lights in the bumper, but they are only 4" holes and I haven't figured out what would be the best light solution for those yet. Plus, I don't have a huge budget to play with right now. I was going to try to get the best mix I could with the large lamps on the bumper, then fill in the gaps with whatever 4" lights I decided on.

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I think this is how I'd do it:

Put these in the holes as driving lights, wired to come on with highbeams. Highbeam pattern.
Put these on the bumper for slow speed offroad stuff. I have a set and they're stupid-bright for their size. No beam pattern; just a big mess of light that's only good offroad.

WreckDiver1321 said:

prefer something not chromed

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They're available in gray, too.

Can I not get a decent setup with the 4000s?

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Sure, you can. Those are very good lights.

-Virgil- said:

They're available in gray, too.

Sure, you can. Those are very good lights.

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I'll look into the gray housings too, thanks.

How far do the 4000 euro beams throw the light, and about how wide?

WreckDiver1321 said:

I'll look into the gray housings too, thanks.

How far do the 4000 euro beams throw the light, and about how wide?

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I only measured them up to 100 yards but you could easily read by them. Dendy had them on his AEV JK along with the Hella 90mm bi-halogen H9 projectors for main headlights. It was a very impressive set-up.
Scott's two sets of HIRs beat it in the near field but not at distance (see Virgil's earlier link for Scott's Cherokee).

Hilldweller said:

I only measured them up to 100 yards but you could easily read by them. Dendy had them on his AEV JK along with the Hella 90mm bi-halogen H9 projectors for main headlights. It was a very impressive set-up.
Scott's two sets of HIRs beat it in the near field but not at distance (see Virgil's earlier link for Scott's Cherokee).

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In my research I found this diagram:



Is this really accurate? If it is, how usable is the light at 300 or 400 meters? If it actually throws a good amount of light that far, I'd be pretty happy with that. And do they really spread the light out that far?

Also, Virgil, what is your opinion on the 100mm IPF fog lights? These are a direct bolt in for the light holes in my bumper. Perhaps I could use a set of the IPFs as my offroad lights (when pattern and distance doesn't matter much) and the Hella Euros as a driving lamp? Or would I be better served by a set of pencil beams?

IPF lights aren't as bad as the worst of the junk on the market, but that's about the highest compliment I care to come up with for them. How fast will you be driving in the conditions you'd be using these off-road lights, and how far ahead would you want to see? Fog lamp range is very, very short. Also, pattern (beam pattern, light distribution) always matters.

-Virgil- said:

IPF lights aren't as bad as the worst of the junk on the market, but that's about the highest compliment I care to come up with for them. How fast will you be driving in the conditions you'd be using these off-road lights, and how far ahead would you want to see? Fog lamp range is very, very short. Also, pattern (beam pattern, light distribution) always matters.

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15-20 mph max. Around 5-7 on the rocky parts where the short range light would be most needed, and no faster than 20 on the smooth sections, where I'd probably have the driving lamps on anyway. People report the 100mms are closer to a driving light than a real fog light, with more distance than a regular fog.

WreckDiver1321 said:

People report the 100mms are closer to a driving light than a real fog light, with more distance than a regular fog.

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People report many things that aren't correct, but it wouldn't surprise me if IPF's fog lamps aren't even remotely close to a fog lamp pattern and put so much light in the glare zone that they seem like driving lamps.

Alaric Darconville said:

People report many things that aren't correct, but it wouldn't surprise me if IPF's fog lamps aren't even remotely close to a fog lamp pattern and put so much light in the glare zone that they seem like driving lamps.

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From the research I've done on them, most people with them say they just throw light farther than a regular fog light. By most, I mean about an 85% consensus. That's all I know.

WreckDiver1321 said:

In my research I found this diagram:



Is this really accurate? If it is, how usable is the light at 300 or 400 meters? If it actually throws a good amount of light that far, I'd be pretty happy with that. And do they really spread the light out that far?

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Do realise that diagram is for the HID version of that light, the H1 versions won't have as much spread or range. There is quite a discussion on the Hellas here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?348553-Driving-Light-Upgrade
I use a pair of the slightly wider Ref 17.5 versions and love their range and width. I am using them with 100W H1 globes and the light output is very good.

WreckDiver1321 said:

From the research I've done on them, most people with them say they just throw light farther than a regular fog light. By most, I mean about an 85% consensus. That's all I know.

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Careful, there's a disconnect between the first half and the second half of what you said here. Looking at what people on the internet said, looking to see what the consensus is on car enthusiast forums, is not research! Most people do not have the knowledge, equipment, or training to be able to say much of anything useful or accurate about car lights. Subjective impressions are useless (but popular!), as are photographs.

The quality of advice about car lights you can get here on this board is hugely better and more reliable than you'll get asking those same questions on just about any other board, but it's still not really research.

wcowan said:

Do realise that diagram is for the HID version of that light, the H1 versions won't have as much spread or range. There is quite a discussion on the Hellas here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?348553-Driving-Light-Upgrade
I use a pair of the slightly wider Ref 17.5 versions and love their range and width. I am using them with 100W H1 globes and the light output is very good.

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That diagram is the one I see attached to the halogen versions all the time. Doesn't mean it's accurate, but that's why I'm asking. I can't seem to find the answer to my question about the Euro beams on that thread, so I started one of my own.

-Virgil- said:

Careful, there's a disconnect between the first half and the second half of what you said here. Looking at what people on the internet said, looking to see what the consensus is on car enthusiast forums, is not research! Most people do not have the knowledge, equipment, or training to be able to say much of anything useful or accurate about car lights. Subjective impressions are useless (but popular!), as are photographs.

The quality of advice about car lights you can get here on this board is hugely better and more reliable than you'll get asking those same questions on just about any other board, but it's still not really research.

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No, it's not technically research, so fine, I've been collecting anecdotal evidence. I've been looking into them. Either way. But terminology is kind of beside the point here. I want facts, not a vocabulary lesson. I understand that all opinions are subjective, and that there are all kinds of variables in place when it comes to asking opinions. I realize most people see "oh yeah, it's a great light!" and just go for it. I don't. Which is why I'm asking here. I want solid information.

And I agree, it is more reliable. Which, again, is why I'm asking here. Here's what I want to know. A) Would the IPFs provide a good amount of lighting for slow speed, short distance trail time? and B) What is the range and spread of the halogen 100W Rallye 4000 euro beams? and C) Would this combination make for a good setup both on the winding mountain roads and slow speed off road trails I usually see?

The IPFs seem like a decent option to me because they are a direct bolt-in and people who have used them for what I would use them for seem to like them. The Euro beam 4000s sound like a good idea for deer lights because of the side-to-side spread and the theoretical distance. I also plan on making the move to better headlamp bulbs as well to help the overall situation.

WreckDiver1321 said:

No, it's not technically research, so fine, I've been collecting anecdotal evidence

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No, actually. There is no such thing as "anecdotal evidence" for the same reason there's no such thing as a "burning-hot ice cube". There are anecdotes, and there is evidence, but they're two completely separate (and almost opposite) things.

But terminology is kind of beside the point here. I want facts, not a vocabulary lesson.

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Terminology matters a lot more than you may realize here. I'm not trying to be preachy or pedantic, I'm trying to help you avoid mistakes on your way to becoming fully informed before spending money, that's all.

And I agree, it is more reliable. Which, again, is why I'm asking here. I just want to get a good idea of the range and width of the 100W H1 Euro beam Rallye 4000s. Would they be a good light for what I'm looking for?

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Yes, I think a pair of those would meet your needs very well. You might not even need to go to the 100w bulbs; a well-chosen 55w bulb might very well give you a better overall result (such as this bulb).