Please recommend a "headlamp" for Grand Canyon trek to Havasupai

STEELINOX

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Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
3
Hi everyone, newbie member, surefire aviator (gen 1) owner with very little knowledge about LEDs (my interest is to mod a 4 C cell maglite to LED, but that's another thread...)

Anyway, can someone please recommend a headlamp system (no budget) but must be dustproof and water resistant, maybe powered by those "123" lithium cells?

thanks,
Randy
 

mdocod

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Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
7,544
Location
COLORado spRINGs
Hi Randy,

CR123's are a great choice for back-packing for many reasons. Weight, size, performance in low temperatures, etc. Personally I don't use them, as I favor rechargeable li-ion solutions as they have lower operating costs for frequently used lights and offer safer access to higher power illumination; however, if I were picking out a headlamp and flashlight for someone who wasn't concerned with operating costs and just wanted simple, good performing plug-n-play results from a reliable illumination system for backpacking specifically I would almost certainly steer them towards 1 X CR123 powered options. The single cell light is arguably the best place for CR123s in terms of safety, as there is no risk of reverse charge caused by accidental mix-match of used and new cells.

I would advise checking out the following headlamps:

Spark SG3-NW
Armytek Tiara C1 v2 Warm
Armytek Tiara Pro C1 v2 Warm
Zebralight H302w
Zebralight H32Fw
There are likely others to consider, that I am simply not aware of.

Note, the above are all neutral tinted LEDs, which IMO is favorable for out-door use as it seems to provide better depth and color perception in earthy-color-environments. They are also all floody, which is best for in-camp chores like cooking, cutting firewood, setting up tents, filtering water, reading maps/planning etc. These also make great after-dark book-reading headlamps on some of their very low modes.

Of course, the bunch of lights above, are sort of task-specific, as they are not really any good for distance spotting. You should always plan on bringing a back-up source of illumination anyway, so your backup light may as well be a 1 X CR123 powered light with a more traditional focused flashlight beam profile, that way you have your "hands free" floodlight on your head, for doing chores, and a hand-held "spotting" light for finding the trail, spotting animals, investigating creepy noises, annoying your tent-neighbors, etc..

Trying to use a bare emitter light like the SG3 or H302 to reach out and light up objects/animals/creepy-noise-makers at any sort of range is problematic, as it requires the use of their highest inefficient battery burning modes, and the results are still poor. The added weight in batteries you'd have to bring to attempt to use these floody lights for distance spotting will effectively "pay" for the weight of a light dedicated to the task, which can accomplish it so much better anyway.

Here are some nice little light-weight 1 X CR123 options to complement a floody headlamp:

Olight S10-L2 Baton Nuetral
Eagletac D25c clicky XM-L2 Nuetral
Fenix PD22UE (nuetral?)
Spark SF3-NW
Armytek Prime C1 (warm)
Armytek Prime C1 Pro (warm)
Armytek Partner C1 V2 (warm)
Armytek Partner C1 Pro V2 (warm)
Zebralight SC32w
There are likely others to consider, that I am simply not aware of.

Again, all neutral tints for better out-door "performance", but these all have more traditional flashlight "beams," that attempt to concentrate some light into a spot. The tiny reflectors do limit the throw, but these still throw better than the floody headlamps above. (the handhelds above produce ~3-4X higher peak lux than the best of some of the more focused headlamps above).

If you don't care about LED tint options, the logical selection of headlamps and handhelds in the 1 X CR123 size class for back-packing use would expand at least 2-3 fold, as you could entertain a number of options from Fenix, Jetbeam/Niteye, NiteCore, etc. Without tint restrictions it would also be advisable to look at options that use the XP-G2 and XB-H emitters, as they will provide better focus on small reflectors. For the headlamp, I would advise sticking with XM-L2 and XP-L options as they will deliver the best efficiency across the widest range of illumination for a floody light.

----------

I'm personally in the process of figuring out what headlamps and hand-helds are going to replace my older equipment for my Wife and I, as we have plans to do a lot more backpacking and fishing. I'm not as disciplined on weight restrictions as I should be, thus, am probably going to be setting us up with 1 X 18650 powered headlamps and handhelds instead. A high capacity rechargeable 18650 li-ion cell offers about the same or better energy density (per weight and volume) as a CR123, but they are larger and heavier (about 2.5X). The lights will have to be a bit larger and heavier to accommodate the larger cells. I'll share with you some of my thought processes on picking flashlights for this application with some weight comparisons... While there are lots of brands that make headlamps and flashlights that could be used for backpacking, it is my opinion after searching the market over high and low, that Armytek and Zebralight are currently offering some of the best products for this application, (though I'm still searching).

Here's a rough comparison of a CR123 based lighting system, vs an 18650 powered lighting system, both employing their relative "equivalents" from each battery size from the same brand...

If I were picking 1 X CR123 zebralights it would be this:
H32Fw + SC32w combo, with 6 X CR123 (4 spare) = ~6.9oz

If I were picking 1 X 18650 zebralights it would be this combo:
H600Fw Mk II + SC62w combo, with 4 X NCR18650B based cells (2 spare) = ~10.3-11.3oz estimated (depending on cells chosen)

In fact, the 18650 combo above was and is still certainly on my short-list of serious contenders as I try to finalize our selections...

The ~50+% increase in weight here translates to a doubling of stored energy and could be loosely described as the option to run about twice as bright with the same runtime, or equally bright for twice as long. If one were to pack along the 12 X CR123 necessary to match the 4 X 18650's in terms of stored energy, both of these illumination systems would actually weigh the about the same, and have the same "stored energy," but the system with the 18650's would have a lower operating cost in the long run (cells can be recharged hundreds of times) and more versatile operation (wider range of illumination options, mainly, brighter options). The advantage of the CR123 based system is that the disciplined user who sticks with lower modes of operation most of the time, can probably get by on 1 X CR123 for every 3-6 nights of active camp duty, resulting in potentially a much lighter weight illumination system. A disciplined user could very likely do most trips with only 1 spare CR123 packed. I am not a disciplined user, I like to play with my flashlights, and to be honest, playing with flashlights is part of the fun for me in the woods, so I'm willing to carry extra weight for that.

Just for reference, 4 X high capacity 18650's weigh <7oz. The equivalent stored energy from rechargeable NIMH AA cells would weigh >16oz (16 decent capacity cells).

We've been mulling over this decision for awhile now, and I think we have it narrowed down to the decision to go with Armytek instead of Zebra for a number of reasons. We're looking pretty seriously at combining the Wizard Pro V2 (warm) with the Partner C2 Pro V2, and 4 X unprotected Panasonic NCR18650B's for each of us, for a total illumination system weight of ~12oz for each of us. (The armytek lights are a bit heavier than the zebras).

My reasoning for leaning towards the armytek solutions are as follows.
1. Implied durability is greater.
2. Customer service/support and warranty seems better based on initial reports.
3. Styling and other "fun" stuff like the button beacon. (shallow.. I know).
4. TIR optics instead of reflector based optics should in my estimation have the potential to be superior in several ways if implemented well (crossing fingers).

That said, I think I'd happily own either setup, and am even contemplating "both" (since I need to buy "2" lighting systems anyway), just for the opportunity to compare and contrast them.
 
Last edited:

markr6

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Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
9,258
If I were picking 1 X 18650 zebralights it would be this combo:
H600Fw Mk II + SC62w combo, with 4 X NCR18650B based cells (2 spare) = ~10.3-11.3oz estimated (depending on cells chosen)

That's a mean combo right there. I only take my H600w with no spare cells when I go backpacking for 2-4 days. Always plenty capacity remaining when I get back home. Just tiny squeeze keychain light for a backup.

I agree with the neutral tints as well. Even my 4400°K Zebralights start looking cool after awhile. I couldn't imagine walking around with a blue light in the woods!
 

mellowhead

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Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
300
Location
Vancouver, British Columbia
My headlamp in use is the H600w (Mk I). Love the warm tint, and runtimes on a good quality 18650 are great. Having spent some time with it, I now know that I would probably be a tiny bit happier with the H600fw, but the non-floody version that I have is perfectly usable too. Most of its on-time (which is when I'm night hiking) is spent at around the third and fourth lowest levels. In camp at night is mostly on second lowest level. This leaves plenty of juice left in one cell, even after 3 or 4 days out. That said, I usually have one or two extra cells with me, just in case. Also I often bring a small solar panel and USB charger, and my Powerpot V is part of my standard pack load. So plenty of ways to recharge if I get stuck out there :)
 

STEELINOX

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
3
Hi Randy,

CR123's are a great choice for back-packing for many reasons. Weight, size, performance in low temperatures, etc. Personally I don't use them, as I favor rechargeable li-ion solutions as they have lower operating costs for frequently used lights and offer safer access to higher power illumination; however, if I were picking out a headlamp and flashlight for someone who wasn't concerned with operating costs and just wanted simple, good performing plug-n-play results from a reliable illumination system for backpacking specifically I would almost certainly steer them towards 1 X CR123 powered options. The single cell light is arguably the best place for CR123s in terms of safety, as there is no risk of reverse charge caused by accidental mix-match of used and new cells.

I would advise checking out the following headlamps:

Spark SG3-NW
Armytek Tiara C1 v2 Warm
Armytek Tiara Pro C1 v2 Warm
Zebralight H302w
Zebralight H32Fw
There are likely others to consider, that I am simply not aware of.

Note, the above are all neutral tinted LEDs, which IMO is favorable for out-door use as it seems to provide better depth and color perception in earthy-color-environments. They are also all floody, which is best for in-camp chores like cooking, cutting firewood, setting up tents, filtering water, reading maps/planning etc. These also make great after-dark book-reading headlamps on some of their very low modes.

Of course, the bunch of lights above, are sort of task-specific, as they are not really any good for distance spotting. You should always plan on bringing a back-up source of illumination anyway, so your backup light may as well be a 1 X CR123 powered light with a more traditional focused flashlight beam profile, that way you have your "hands free" floodlight on your head, for doing chores, and a hand-held "spotting" light for finding the trail, spotting animals, investigating creepy noises, annoying your tent-neighbors, etc..

Trying to use a bare emitter light like the SG3 or H302 to reach out and light up objects/animals/creepy-noise-makers at any sort of range is problematic, as it requires the use of their highest inefficient battery burning modes, and the results are still poor. The added weight in batteries you'd have to bring to attempt to use these floody lights for distance spotting will effectively "pay" for the weight of a light dedicated to the task, which can accomplish it so much better anyway.

Here are some nice little light-weight 1 X CR123 options to complement a floody headlamp:

Olight S10-L2 Baton Nuetral
Eagletac D25c clicky XM-L2 Nuetral
Fenix PD22UE (nuetral?)
Spark SF3-NW
Armytek Prime C1 (warm)
Armytek Prime C1 Pro (warm)
Armytek Partner C1 V2 (warm)
Armytek Partner C1 Pro V2 (warm)
Zebralight SC32w
There are likely others to consider, that I am simply not aware of.

Again, all neutral tints for better out-door "performance", but these all have more traditional flashlight "beams," that attempt to concentrate some light into a spot. The tiny reflectors do limit the throw, but these still throw better than the floody headlamps above. (the handhelds above produce ~3-4X higher peak lux than the best of some of the more focused headlamps above).

If you don't care about LED tint options, the logical selection of headlamps and handhelds in the 1 X CR123 size class for back-packing use would expand at least 2-3 fold, as you could entertain a number of options from Fenix, Jetbeam/Niteye, NiteCore, etc. Without tint restrictions it would also be advisable to look at options that use the XP-G2 and XB-H emitters, as they will provide better focus on small reflectors. For the headlamp, I would advise sticking with XM-L2 and XP-L options as they will deliver the best efficiency across the widest range of illumination for a floody light.

----------

I'm personally in the process of figuring out what headlamps and hand-helds are going to replace my older equipment for my Wife and I, as we have plans to do a lot more backpacking and fishing. I'm not as disciplined on weight restrictions as I should be, thus, am probably going to be setting us up with 1 X 18650 powered headlamps and handhelds instead. A high capacity rechargeable 18650 li-ion cell offers about the same or better energy density (per weight and volume) as a CR123, but they are larger and heavier (about 2.5X). The lights will have to be a bit larger and heavier to accommodate the larger cells. I'll share with you some of my thought processes on picking flashlights for this application with some weight comparisons... While there are lots of brands that make headlamps and flashlights that could be used for backpacking, it is my opinion after searching the market over high and low, that Armytek and Zebralight are currently offering some of the best products for this application, (though I'm still searching).

Here's a rough comparison of a CR123 based lighting system, vs an 18650 powered lighting system, both employing their relative "equivalents" from each battery size from the same brand...

If I were picking 1 X CR123 zebralights it would be this:
H32Fw + SC32w combo, with 6 X CR123 (4 spare) = ~6.9oz

If I were picking 1 X 18650 zebralights it would be this combo:
H600Fw Mk II + SC62w combo, with 4 X NCR18650B based cells (2 spare) = ~10.3-11.3oz estimated (depending on cells chosen)

In fact, the 18650 combo above was and is still certainly on my short-list of serious contenders as I try to finalize our selections...

The ~50+% increase in weight here translates to a doubling of stored energy and could be loosely described as the option to run about twice as bright with the same runtime, or equally bright for twice as long. If one were to pack along the 12 X CR123 necessary to match the 4 X 18650's in terms of stored energy, both of these illumination systems would actually weigh the about the same, and have the same "stored energy," but the system with the 18650's would have a lower operating cost in the long run (cells can be recharged hundreds of times) and more versatile operation (wider range of illumination options, mainly, brighter options). The advantage of the CR123 based system is that the disciplined user who sticks with lower modes of operation most of the time, can probably get by on 1 X CR123 for every 3-6 nights of active camp duty, resulting in potentially a much lighter weight illumination system. A disciplined user could very likely do most trips with only 1 spare CR123 packed. I am not a disciplined user, I like to play with my flashlights, and to be honest, playing with flashlights is part of the fun for me in the woods, so I'm willing to carry extra weight for that.

Just for reference, 4 X high capacity 18650's weigh <7oz. The equivalent stored energy from rechargeable NIMH AA cells would weigh >16oz (16 decent capacity cells).

We've been mulling over this decision for awhile now, and I think we have it narrowed down to the decision to go with Armytek instead of Zebra for a number of reasons. We're looking pretty seriously at combining the Wizard Pro V2 (warm) with the Partner C2 Pro V2, and 4 X unprotected Panasonic NCR18650B's for each of us, for a total illumination system weight of ~12oz for each of us. (The armytek lights are a bit heavier than the zebras).

My reasoning for leaning towards the armytek solutions are as follows.
1. Implied durability is greater.
2. Customer service/support and warranty seems better based on initial reports.
3. Styling and other "fun" stuff like the button beacon. (shallow.. I know).
4. TIR optics instead of reflector based optics should in my estimation have the potential to be superior in several ways if implemented well (crossing fingers).

That said, I think I'd happily own either setup, and am even contemplating "both" (since I need to buy "2" lighting systems anyway), just for the opportunity to compare and contrast them.

Hi, thanks for the thorough write up and recommendations...
i will consider the zebra h600w against the Felix hp12, that I just ordered on Amazon...
Thanks again,
Randy
 

mdocod

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
7,544
Location
COLORado spRINGs
Hi Randy,

Just for clarification, the H600 (non-F) and HP12, are the type of headlamps that already have a more traditional flashlight "beam" profile, so are not particularly great for up-close work (cause tunnel vision). It's not a bad idea to have a back-up source of illumination, but in this case, the backup light wouldn't necessarily complement the headlamp as part of a more well rounded illumination system in the manner that I advised above.

Here are some reasons I would not choose the HP12 for a backpacking trip:

1. weight: 145 grams (w/headband). The ArmyTek Wizard Pro V2 weighs ~85g with the headband. The Zebralight H600Fw weighs ~70g with the headband. For reference, the combined weight of a H600Fw Mk II + SC62w combo (empty) is only like 110g, and the combined weight of the Wizard Pro V2 + Partner C2 Pro V2 is ~160g. I don't think it makes sense to carry that much weight and only be getting 1 general purpose light source with lots of compromises....

2. Tint: Pretty sure the HP12 uses a cool white emitter, which is not as useful outdoors. (depth perception won't be quite as good in earthy environments).

3. lack of a "firefly" type mode (sub-lumen). This is a bit subjective but with dark adapted eyes, a firefly mode is very useful, especially to minimize disturbing others when we just need a touch of light for a basic task.

4. traditional "hot-spot" beam will cause tunnel vision when used at night for near-field detail work. This can lead to unintentional clumsiness.

I think the HP12 makes a better headlamp for someone who is working with ambient light present but poor light on the subject... Like working in an equipment room fixing a furnace, or working on an appliance, or even moreso, when working in situations where the eyes are adjusted for daylight but the subject is under heavy shadow (like pool equipment room "shed" with sunlight poking in through a window, all dark surfaces in the shed eating up the light but the eyes remain adjusted to sunlight causing the room to appear practically black). Having a traditional "beam" helps a headlamp like this achieve the high lux required on the subject to compete with surrounding ambient lighting and allow better visual acuity on a subject that is "shadowed." It's an acceptable compromise at that point, because without the beam, it wouldn't be able to generate a high enough illumination intensity to compete with other light sources.

After the sun goes down, eyes will adjust to the low light. When we turn on a light like the HP12, our eyes adjust to the intensity of the beam, the spill light practically fades away from view, causing poor peripheral vision, and increased mental and eye fatigue. This is the "tunnel vision" effect. A broad floody light on your head will allow better use of your peripheral vision by illuminating the area in front of you more evenly.
 

mellowhead

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
300
Location
Vancouver, British Columbia
I can attest to the tunnel vision. One time, when I was snowshoeing at night, the H600w was my light source and the visual fatigue got to the point of being uncomfortable and a little bit dizzying. I'm sure it was exacerbated by the highly reflective snow, combined with no surrounding trees (direct transition from reflective snow to dark sky), and the long duration of the night hike - which was many hours. A couple of experiences like this have shown me that a floodier light would be better for long-term night use. If I ever feel compelled to replace my H600w, or if it ever gets damaged or goes missing, I will replace it with a headlamp that has a less defined hot spot. In the mean time, I may get some D-C-Fix for my H600w to remedy its hot spot.
 

P_A_S_1

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Messages
1,271
Location
NYC
SF Minimus meets the requirements you want, comes in warm and cool tints, and was the headlamp I used in the Grand Canyon where I did a good amount of hiking at night and it worked fine.
 

STEELINOX

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
3
Hi Randy,

Just for clarification, the H600 (non-F) and HP12, are the type of headlamps that already have a more traditional flashlight "beam" profile, so are not particularly great for up-close work (cause tunnel vision). It's not a bad idea to have a back-up source of illumination, but in this case, the backup light wouldn't necessarily complement the headlamp as part of a more well rounded illumination system in the manner that I advised above.

Here are some reasons I would not choose the HP12 for a backpacking trip:

1. weight: 145 grams (w/headband). The ArmyTek Wizard Pro V2 weighs ~85g with the headband. The Zebralight H600Fw weighs ~70g with the headband. For reference, the combined weight of a H600Fw Mk II + SC62w combo (empty) is only like 110g, and the combined weight of the Wizard Pro V2 + Partner C2 Pro V2 is ~160g. I don't think it makes sense to carry that much weight and only be getting 1 general purpose light source with lots of compromises....

2. Tint: Pretty sure the HP12 uses a cool white emitter, which is not as useful outdoors. (depth perception won't be quite as good in earthy environments).

3. lack of a "firefly" type mode (sub-lumen). This is a bit subjective but with dark adapted eyes, a firefly mode is very useful, especially to minimize disturbing others when we just need a touch of light for a basic task.

4. traditional "hot-spot" beam will cause tunnel vision when used at night for near-field detail work. This can lead to unintentional clumsiness.

I think the HP12 makes a better headlamp for someone who is working with ambient light present but poor light on the subject... Like working in an equipment room fixing a furnace, or working on an appliance, or even moreso, when working in situations where the eyes are adjusted for daylight but the subject is under heavy shadow (like pool equipment room "shed" with sunlight poking in through a window, all dark surfaces in the shed eating up the light but the eyes remain adjusted to sunlight causing the room to appear practically black). Having a traditional "beam" helps a headlamp like this achieve the high lux required on the subject to compete with surrounding ambient lighting and allow better visual acuity on a subject that is "shadowed." It's an acceptable compromise at that point, because without the beam, it wouldn't be able to generate a high enough illumination intensity to compete with other light sources.

After the sun goes down, eyes will adjust to the low light. When we turn on a light like the HP12, our eyes adjust to the intensity of the beam, the spill light practically fades away from view, causing poor peripheral vision, and increased mental and eye fatigue. This is the "tunnel vision" effect. A broad floody light on your head will allow better use of your peripheral vision by illuminating the area in front of you more evenly.

I returned the HP12 and ordered a "Tiara"...
i dint like the wire hangin outside with the external batt case aft...

From trying it, I also culd see how tunnel vision culd set in after prolonged use...
 
Last edited:

markr6

Flashaholic
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
9,258
I can attest to the tunnel vision. One time, when I was snowshoeing at night, the H600w was my light source and the visual fatigue got to the point of being uncomfortable and a little bit dizzying. I'm sure it was exacerbated by the highly reflective snow, combined with no surrounding trees (direct transition from reflective snow to dark sky), and the long duration of the night hike - which was many hours. A couple of experiences like this have shown me that a floodier light would be better for long-term night use. If I ever feel compelled to replace my H600w, or if it ever gets damaged or goes missing, I will replace it with a headlamp that has a less defined hot spot. In the mean time, I may get some D-C-Fix for my H600w to remedy its hot spot.

Agreed. I never ran into a reason to use a "throwy" headlamp. Of all the Zebralights I have, I actually ordered the STANDARD versions and put d-c-fix on all of them since I liked that beam so much. A little better hotspot than the frosted models, without losing the spill.
 
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