Thrower Defined? in terms in min. meters of throw

JohnnyBravo · Jun 2, 2015

Howdy. I searched CPF and Google but found no answer. What is generally considered a thrower in terms of ANSI FL1 meters? For example, my 2D LED Maglite throws 412 meters but is only 168 lumens - so it's my "thrower." My JetBeam RRT0 only throws 150 meters, but has 550 lumens - so it's my "floody." My gut tells me a thrower throws at least 300 meters, regardless of smooth/textured/or aspheric lens. What do you say?

Amelia · Jun 2, 2015

I don't know if there's a fixed definition of a "Thrower" vs. "Non-Thrower"/"Flooder"... but I personally consider anything that lets me discern useable detail and allows me to identify a person or animal past 200 yards as a "thrower". I'm sure lots of people have their own definitions similar to mine.

Poppy · Jun 3, 2015

Amelia said:
I don't know if there's a fixed definition of a "Thrower" vs. "Non-Thrower"/"Flooder"... but I personally consider anything that lets me discern useable detail and allows me to identify a person or animal past 200 yards as a "thrower". I'm sure lots of people have their own definitions similar to mine.

LOL, Amelia, I'd personally consider anything that lets me discern useable detail and allows me to identify a person or animal past 200 yards as a telescope!

Johnny,
I think that "thrower vs flooder" has more to do with beam profile, than it does with the actual distance it will throw to the ANSI standards of a mere 0.25 lux.

D6859 · Jun 3, 2015

Poppy said:
I think that "thrower vs flooder" has more to do with beam profile, than it does with the actual distance it will throw to the ANSI standards of a mere 0.25 lux.

I think so too. On the other hand, the brightest AAA/AA keychain lights throw further than some old incandescent "throwers" even though they have floodier beam profile. I wouldn't call them throwers but they're more throwy compared to the incandescents. Maybe it is just relative: something is throwier than the other, something is floodier than the other and so on...

markr6 · Jun 3, 2015

I agree with the above comments. An 80lm AAA can be a "thrower" just as a 4x18650 can be a "thrower". More to do with the narrow beam type than the distance. That's just my opinion, though.

JohnnyBravo · Jun 3, 2015

Okay, gotcha. Beam profiles. Regardless of lumens, the more narrow the beam = a thrower, even though the distance may be short. Now I'm thinking: a thrower is like a rifle, and a floody is like a shotgun...

Mr. Tone · Jun 3, 2015

I believe most of us use the term to describe a light designed for a tight beam, especially compared to similar sized lights. There is no definition for how much candela a light needs to be a "thrower". It is a highly subjective term like most adjectives. Around here, most call handheld flashlights with tight beams "throwers" and bigger lights "searchlights or spotlights".

TEEJ · Jun 3, 2015

Yeah, I'm with the camp that considers the beam profile not the meters.

To my mind, if whatever light the thing produces is optimized for distance, its a thrower.

That way, you can have a keychain light optimized for throw, even if it has less total range than a giant flood light, etc....because it throws what it has as far as it can.

Berneck1 · Jun 3, 2015

I've never dug deep into the technicals of these things. I think a lot has to do with perception. Technicals don't tell the whole story. Like you mentioned, I also have a Maglite that can illuminate areas further away than "more powerful" lights. I think that has to do with Lux if I'm not mistaken. The size and type of reflector play a big role in this...

Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums

JohnnyBravo · Jun 4, 2015

Ok, cool. Thanks all. I reckon that when I need to use a light for some distance, I'll reach (currently) for either my Maglite (412 m) or my Coast HP550 (351 m) to see what's down yonder. Perhaps I'll get either that Olight Javelot or Coast HP314 later this year, for some serious reach out and touch someone...

Swedpat · Apr 15, 2016

I wondered about this matter and considered to start a thread about it but found this thread.
My thought about a definition of a thrower: a light with a relatively high candela compared to the lumen output.
While a 1000lm light with 10000 cd is considered as pretty floody 10000 cd is considered as throwy with a 100lm light.
An extreme example: our sun lights up the earth with ~120000 lux at a clear sunny day. This is a tremendous lux value considering it's at a distance of 150000000 km/90000000 miles from earth. Still sun is a pure flood light and by definition 0% thrower(no focused light) It's just so tremendous huge and intense so the raw lumen output of it makes it to light up the earth so brightly. Consequently throw should not be defined based on an actual reach, but by the reach related to the total output. As I see it...

CelticCross74 · Apr 15, 2016

beam profile and reflector size and design. A 132 lumen D Mag throws 412 meters due to its huge and deep reflector. A 1000 lumen PD35TAC despite its output is no thrower its a high output short range light. Ive got the HP550 as well and love it! Great throw and output for cheap. Also got the new XP-L HP17 with over 425 meters of throw it is awesome..and HUGE. Have both the big Javelots and both throw farther than I can see. Have the SR52UT which also throws farther than I can see. Coast HP314 is so huge you need a shoulder strap to carry it but only throws 683 meters. The M2X Javelot does well over 800.

bykfixer · Apr 15, 2016

Good thread subject.

eh4 · Apr 15, 2016

Or even a weak light that puts most of its light on your target without shining much light back at you from objects around the target.
-looking down into a heating duct for instance, or around an engine.

ven · Apr 16, 2016

CelticCross74 said:
beam profile and reflector size and design.

Exactly, look at the deft X (admit it has a wavien collar ) but at not much more than 600lm..........throws 1300kcd

Can easily have 200lm in a huge deep reflector that will wipe the floor in throw ,with say a 6000lm shallow reflector type light.

So for me the actual lumen output is not that significant to throw, more on the smaller LED and larger/deeper reflector. Of course with all being the same(reflector/LED), one LED driven at 3a and one at 2a, the 3a will throw further..........

What i class as a thrower or biased towards throw is tough to say..........(other than obvious kcd specs and reflector design). Take the pd35 at around 10kcd iirc as an example, this i do not class as a thrower type, but more a general purpose type light.
Then i have a tk75vnQ70, now to my eyes it maybe around 100kcd through sheer output, reaches out further than say a predator pro............yet the pro is classed as a thrower type of light, the Q70 not, as its really a flood biased light.

So for me, large/deep smooth reflector would be key as even then with a large LED like an xhp70 de-dome, an OP reflector , 200kcd can be reached in a k60vn(thrower class kcd ).

Take the same LED, say driven the same(will stick with the xhp70 for this example) this throws well if its in a large deep reflector..........not class leading but well enough for most uses and some. Now take that LED out and put it in a small p60 drop in, small OP reflector..............now you have a wall of light with not much throw compared to the former.

Then dedicated throwers, will need a large and deep smooth reflector, smaller the LED the better, well focused with a tight small hot spot and minimal spill. This can be achieved with 800-900 or so lumens to achieve 800kcd(tm36mvn).

With over 5X the out put of the k70vn ,the tk75vnQ70

With an xhp35 HI , large deep smooth reflector and 570kcd with "just" 2600lm

So its how the light from the LED is presented out the front,not just the lumens

Thats how i pretty much see things:candle:

torchsarecool · Apr 16, 2016

Perhaps it would be worth a new measure suggesting the proportion of throw vs flood.
So maybe a light with 1000 lumens and 150 meters of throw could be explained as 150(m)/1000(l) or a simplified measure of 0.15 throw units
And a deft X would be 1900(m)/600(l) simplified measure of 3.17 throw units
I think this would act as an indicator to the type of beam profile a light has
I'm sure there would be better ways to do this but I'm not that clever with this sort of stuff

ven · Apr 16, 2016

I am happy with the metres, just not what its measured down to which i believe is 0.25lux...........useless really. Maybe a different standard of actual use. Be it 1lux or even 2lux!

So for the ******** light gives 250m of throw @1 lux as an example

bykfixer · Apr 16, 2016

I think the ansi standard is a good indicator.

A mentioned '425' meters on one package and '235' meters on another says a lot.
Doesn't say everything, but it's a good indicator.

Now if you look again at the ansi, and factor in lumens that's an even better indicator.
Again doesn't say everything.

But say you are at a big box store. You see an ansi rated 600 lumen on the packaging of brand X combined with an ansi 235 meter beam, and brand Y packaging says 375 lumens and 425 meters... nuff said for me anyway.

I like the factor idea torches are cool mentioned. . Especially since Candella is rarely listed (nor would be understood by the masses buying a flashlight)

For the experienced user see-ing a 160 lumen light is rated to throw 350 meters we instictively think "ah, pencil beam". But what about scenarios like eh4 mentioned? A weak light intended to light up a narrow tunnel. Again the ansi rating would be considered.
Again, a "factor" would be very helpful to the average buyer. Afterall much of the buying public is not completely stupid.

I'll cite 2 lights I own. A 28 lumen Streamlight Microstream vs a 1aaa 70 lumen Streamlight ProTac. One would seem nearly 3x as bright to the average user. That's where the ansi at a glance imo is very useful.

Microstream packaging says "28 lumens, 52 meter beam, 683 candela".
ProTac packaging says "70 lumens, 47 meter, 550 candela".

If I know I need a light to see my entire engine bay to fix a hose or install a new battery after dark, the broader beam would be chosen. Most useful in that scenario.

If I know I'll need a light to find a dropped screw down in said engine bay I'd pick the light with the narrower beam. A "thrower" if you will.

If I could only choose one I'd pick the thrower knowing it'll have at least enough spill to light areas nearby.

Swedpat · Apr 16, 2016

torchsarecool said:
Perhaps it would be worth a new measure suggesting the proportion of throw vs flood.
So maybe a light with 1000 lumens and 150 meters of throw could be explained as 150(m)/1000(l) or a simplified measure of 0.15 throw units
And a deft X would be 1900(m)/600(l) simplified measure of 3.17 throw units
I think this would act as an indicator to the type of beam profile a light has
I'm sure there would be better ways to do this but I'm not that clever with this sort of stuff

Many interesting replies here. And even if many experienced flashaholics fast can understand the kind of beam profile(and what it's useful for) of a light by comparing the lumen to candela it may be a good idea with such a or similar indicator. Even if the ANSI numbers already give a clue.

Tre_Asay · Apr 16, 2016

It could also be the size of the hotspot and the relative spill.
When you shine the light indoors how large of an area on the wall is lit up?
For me, a floody light will easily light up evenly a circle that is 6 feet or more at 20 feet. A "thrower" might only do 3 or less.
A stock mini mag (14 lumens) will throw farther than a small 200 lumen LED light. The problem being that it lights up a tiny area with not much lux.

Thrower for me designates that it becomes difficult to use at close ranges because I have to work around the glaring hotspot no matter how dim the light is.

Thrower Defined? in terms in min. meters of throw

Enlightened

Enlightened

Flashaholic

Enlightened

Flashaholic

Enlightened

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashaholic

Enlightened

Enlightened

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashaholic

Flashlight Enthusiast

Flashaholic

Enlightened

Flashaholic

Flashaholic

Flashlight Enthusiast

Enlightened

Similar threads