Split reflector design: two luxeons, one reflector

evan9162

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After discussion in the multiple luxeons in one reflector thread, I came up with this idea. The basic premise is to treat each luxeon as a unique point source of light. But rather than point one forward, point them sideways into the reflector, back-to-back on a heat sinking aluminum bar.

In order to properly focus with the reflector, the reflector needs to be split in half, and the halves moved apart from each other. This allows each luxeon to act as a point source for its half of the reflector, and for the reflector to gather the maximum amount of light from each luxeon in this configuration.

Pict-chas!
sref1.jpg

sref2.jpg

sref3.jpg

sref4.jpg



For simplicity, I left the emitters (bin Q2J) on the star boards, and just bolted them to the bar stock. The reflector is a mag reflector. I had to space the reflectors out quite a bit due to the height of the emitter. The black pieces are pieces of thick foam that turned out to be the perfect spacing height (just a hair shy of 1/4"). Between the two spacers and 1/8" aluminum bar, the reflectors are now 5/8" apart. Each reflector was positioned to produce a roundish hotspot.

Now, for results!

For each beamshot, the left is the color shot (twin luxeons on bottom), the right, greyscaled and solarized to 3BPP to show the brightness gradient

First, up against a 1W Q2J at 700mA in a 3D mag, with the twin luxeons running at 620mA each:

sref5.jpg


The greyscale shows the twin has a brighter hotspot. Looks good.


Next, against a 5W V3T in a 2D mag, at 1A:

sref6.jpg


It's no contest, the twins have a might brighter hotspot than the single 5W.

These are encouraging results!

The one thing that would make a vast difference would be a different reflector. As it stands now, the mag reflector allows probably 30-40% of the light to leak through the back of the reflector where the bulb post originally would come through. A reflector with a focal point higher up would solve this. Tighter focus would also be achieved with a larger reflector.

I am envisioning that building a flashlight around this design would be relatively easy. The head would have an oblong shape, machined from aluminum. Instead of a simple circular hole for a reflector, two half-circles for the refelctors, with a thick bridge between the reflector halves, running the entire length of the head (as it would maximize thermal transfer to the head, and would not block the beam in the least bit). One could still retain a focusing mechanism if they devised a way to move the reflectors independent of the rest of the head (not hard for an ME to figure out). Other focusing/defocusing may be achieved through spacing the reflector farther or nearer to the LED. With larger reflectors and a large mounting bridge for the LEDs, you could mount two 5-watters back to back.

So instead of the recoil style configuration that Pelican is introducing, with it's thermal management problems, a "side-shot" style light can have the benefits of a recoil style configuration (maximizing the light gathered by the reflector), use multiple luxeons for additional brightness, and not worry about achieving a good thermal path to the outside world.

CPF modders - what do you think?
 

OddOne

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That is a VERY cool idea, and simple too. Hard to argue with how much heatsinking you can get away with for that design, too!

/me suddenly envisions an aluminum block with four Luxeon IIIs and two bandsaw-cut PM6 reflectors... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif

oO
 

McGizmo

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Re: Split reflector design: two luxeons, one refle

Cool!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
 

Nerd

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Re: Split reflector design: two luxeons, one refle

Would a flower of 5mm LEDs have increased throw by pointing outwards at the reflector as well? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

tylerdurden

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Re: Split reflector design: two luxeons, one refle

Very nice. I would like to see a comparison of a single luxeon driven at, say, 700ma against your split reflector with each emitter driven at 350ma. In theory, you should get more light from the split arrangement even though they are both consuming the same amount of power, but in practice I think you will see similar outputs due to problems you have pointed out (less than optimal heatsinking, hole in the bottom of the reflector, etc).
 

ledlurker

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Re: Split reflector design: two luxeons, one refle

BRAINSTORM!!!!!!!!!!

How about this for an idea????

Since everybody is familiar with Hotbeam's Hotlips heatsink, this idea will be easier to get across. If you look at the hotlips heatsink you will see the pedestal mount (not the part used to center the emmiter) but the larger pedestal that is slightly smaller that the maglite reflector hole. If this pedestal was extended about 3/8 to 1/2 inch in height then machined down to a thin plate about 0.10 inch thick (maybe as high as .25), you can have a similiar setup as mentioned above without having to cut the reflector or design a new head. The heat sink would have to be able to be recessed farther back in the barrel but you could easily put two emmiters on one heatsink and use a stock reflector.

I am in the middle of getting some inexpensive heatsinks machined for gifts and the CNC operator has caught the bug. Maybe I can get a concept one made.
 

Nerd

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Re: Split reflector design: two luxeons, one refle

Why 2? Why not 4 in a pyramid like configuration with the emitters at a 45 degre angle on the sides of the pyramid? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

evan9162

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Re: Split reflector design: two luxeons, one refle

[ QUOTE ]
led-lurker said:
BRAINSTORM!!!!!!!!!!

How about this for an idea????

Since everybody is familiar with Hotbeam's Hotlips heatsink, this idea will be easier to get across. If you look at the hotlips heatsink you will see the pedestal mount (not the part used to center the emmiter) but the larger pedestal that is slightly smaller that the maglite reflector hole. If this pedestal was extended about 3/8 to 1/2 inch in height then machined down to a thin plate about 0.10 inch thick (maybe as high as .25), you can have a similiar setup as mentioned above without having to cut the reflector or design a new head. The heat sink would have to be able to be recessed farther back in the barrel but you could easily put two emmiters on one heatsink and use a stock reflector.

I am in the middle of getting some inexpensive heatsinks machined for gifts and the CNC operator has caught the bug. Maybe I can get a concept one made.



[/ QUOTE ]

You still need to split the reflector and move the reflector halves farther apart, because even back to back with no heat sink between them, the light emitting surface of the LEDs are not at the focal point of the reflector. The top of the LED die surface (underneath the dome) needs to be in the center of the reflector. This necessitates the splitting of the reflector as I have done.


[edit]

Observe:
sref8.jpg


The top of the die is right at the focal point of the reflector. Relative to the diameter of the reflector, the focal point is at the exact center. Thus, even with back-to-back emitters, the reflector would have to be split and separated by a distance equal to twice the distance from the top of the emitter die to the bottom of the emitter slug. If you have a heat sink between them (I hope you do!), then the distance between the reflector halves will also include the thickness of the heat sink too.
 

evan9162

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Re: Split reflector design: two luxeons, one refle

[ QUOTE ]
Nerd said:
Why 2? Why not 4 in a pyramid like configuration with the emitters at a 45 degre angle on the sides of the pyramid? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure how much better 45 degrees to the reflector would be vs. 90 that I've used. I don't have the capablilty of producing a 45 degree heatsink wedge. I would imagine you would still lose a significant amount of spill light out the front of the reflector. This would all change with a different reflector as well.

I used this setup (90 degrees) since it was the easiest to setup to test the idea. I would imagine maybe somewhere between 15-30 degrees tilted towards the front may maximize reflector usage and minimize light loss out the front/back.

As for using 4, I'm guessing you're meaning to split the reflector into 4 pieces. Given the lambertian radiation pattern, which emits light in a nearly 180 degree path, A 1/2 reflector is probably ideal to maximize light from the luxeon. If you're only concerned with the central 120 degrees (which still contains the vast majority of the light), then 1/3 a reflector would probably work as well - however, cutting a reflector into 1/3 isn't my idea of a fun time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

With 1/3-sized reflector slices, you may be able to mate 4 of them together, with the LEDs on a central bar, maybe angled at 15 degrees towards the front. Positioning the reflectors relative to the luxeons for that configuration will be tricky indeed!
 

Rothrandir

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Re: Split reflector design: two luxeons, one refle

very creative idea!
and amazing execution!

the days of optics for luxeons are truly comming to an end.
it's only a matter of time before special "reflective configurations" are devised specifically for luxeons by the bigshots. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

evan9162

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Re: Split reflector design: two luxeons, one refle

[ QUOTE ]
tylerdurden said:
Very nice. I would like to see a comparison of a single luxeon driven at, say, 700ma against your split reflector with each emitter driven at 350ma. In theory, you should get more light from the split arrangement even though they are both consuming the same amount of power, but in practice I think you will see similar outputs due to problems you have pointed out (less than optimal heatsinking, hole in the bottom of the reflector, etc).

[/ QUOTE ]

As ordered:
sref7.jpg


Same positions/photo setup as before. The twins run at 310mA each (so a little less total power than the 3D mag).
 

evan9162

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Re: Split reflector design: two luxeons, one refle

Each luxeon would need a parabolic reflector shape around it. Thus, the reflector that will allow them to all focus into a tight beam won't look like a circle. It will look like the joining of 4 circles, with the center of each circle at the surface of the die of each luxeon that it focuses.

qref.jpg


I think that 45 degrees isn't the optimal angle - too much spill light is lost out the front (unless that's the goal of directing them forward).
 

Burnt_Retinas

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Re: Split reflector design: two luxeons, one refle

evan1962, this is a great thought /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I like MTFD17 and NERDs idea too. It makes the mod simpler, and as for the beam shape....hey, I can handle a beam like that. It'll give you light almost down to the feet, a panoramic side to side view, and an intense hotspot right into the distance. I like it....very much.

If I had 2 LEDs I'd try a 2 X to start with, but rather than cut the reflector just use 2 strips of ally and bend them apart within the reflector for the angle. Simple to test the concept. Anyone with a couple of LEDs to try?. A beamshot would be nice.

Great thinking /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Chris
 

AilSnail

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Re: Split reflector design: two luxeons, one refle

Very nice work, evan! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Thanks to Tyler too for starting the other thread which led to this! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

Looks like the twins are a tad brighter than the single led? Quite an achievement!
 

IsaacHayes

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Re: Split reflector design: two luxeons, one refle

MTFD17: the one on the end should be a SE to throw light in the same direction as the other 4...
 

AilSnail

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Re: Split reflector design: two luxeons, one refle

evan, how about a beamshot with only one of the twins lit?
 
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