Looking to upgrade entire home to LED...

JasonJ

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About 7 years ago we went to exclusively 6500k 26w CFL bulbs in the home (with 13w in the ceiling fan). Now I'm considering moving to LED seeing as how the price keeps dropping year after year.. and some of my earliest CFL's are starting to fail.

Is there anything I should know as a basic primer before going off to the store and standing in front of a shelf full of a half-dozen brands with marketing designed packages screaming at me?

High CRI? Give up the 100w incan equiv in favor of something more energy efficient? Go warmer in my color temp selection perhaps? How many lumens output should I be looking for?

I think the 6500k "daylight" CFL's I have now may be a bit too blueish.. not too hard on the eyes, however. I'd like to mimic natural daylight if I could.. my ceilings are painted bright white, walls are twilight grey (light blueish-grey) in the living room, a light mocha brown in the bedrooms. How will that affect the light output and buying decision?

Am I thinking too much into this?
 
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markr6

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I really don't know what to tell you. I drove myself insane with these same questions. A few things I found after trying so many LEDs:

1. I can't handle the 80 CRI stuff, mostly because I COMPARED them side by side. Without doing that, you may be OK and not notice it. But I do and need 90+.
2. 6500K is crazy blue IMO, but it's up to you. 5000K is always available, so maybe you'll like that. I prefer something around 3500-4000K.
3. 100w are hard to find in a range of temps. Usually only 2700 and 5000. No high CRI that I know of.
4. I settled for a slightly too dim GE Reveal 60w in my living room. GREAT color, but wish they were brighter.
5. I use Cree TW in hallway ceiling fixtures. 93 CRI is nice, but only available in 40 and 60w

At this point in testing, I've wasted so much money I don't think any efficiency gain could bring me back!!
 

CoveAxe

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I'm surprised you lived with 6500k all this time. I think 5000k is too blue for me as it is.

So everyone is different and you're probably going to buy a bulb or two and not like them. It's an iterative process. Here's a couple of things I've learned so far, but they are just my preferences:

1. 4000k is really good for bathrooms/kitchens/laundry rooms. It gives a nice neutral white and makes bright whites really pop.
2. Bedrooms/living rooms/dining rooms should go warmer like 3000k.
3. The only 5000k bulbs I have are in my refrigerator and my garage. I bought these because 4000k wasn't really available at the time. It still looks good in these places.
4. I've been OK with 80 CRI, but for something like a dining or living room, a higher CRI would be preferable (90+).
5. For 40W equivalent (~500 lumen) and below, almost every bulb I've seen has been enclosed-fixture rated and is low-power enough that lifetime shouldn't be an issue.
6. You need to look around for enclosed-fixture rated 60-100W equivalent (800-1600 lumen) if that's what you want to use them for. Very few 100W equivalents are rated for enclosed-fixtures. If these aren't enclosed, then it's less of a problem.
7. LEDs are still in the stage where you get what you pay for. If it's a fixture that you use a lot, you should pay more for the bulb (~$10). If it's rarely used, then just get whatever.
8. If you install a bulb and find it gives you headaches or seems to bother you, then it might be flickering. Not much you can do except get a different model bulb and try again.
9. Stay away from ebay unless it's a very esoteric form factor and you can't get it anywhere else. Even then, don't expect great quality.
10. Amazon also has lesser-known LED brands that are decent if you need something less common. I picked up some G25 4000k bulbs from there (could not find anyone else who made those) and they've worked great for me. I researched the brand though to make sure that they weren't crap.
11. I don't have any dimmers (and I'm guessing you don't either if you're on CFL), but I've learned from others that some bulbs don't like certain dimmers. If you get a bulb and it doesn't dim well, try a different brand dimmer.

Since you say you have 26W and 13W CFLs, this corresponds to 100W (1600 lumen) and 60W (800 lumen) equivalents. If you are happy with your brightness, then using the same LED equivalent will be fine.

The big retailers have been going on the trend of "make LED bulbs as cheap as possible so we can sell more". They also only really seem to carry 2700k and 5000k with very little in between. I've personally been buying most of my bulbs lately from EarthLED. I've had good luck with the green creative line, but be warned that they flicker (if you are bothered by that), but they also have 100W equivalents that are enclosed-fixture rated. I have also had good luck with the 40W equivalent Crees at home depot.

Anyway, it's really a great time to start the switch . The quality is becoming more consistent and the industry as a whole has a lot more experience and manufacturing ability behind it when putting out new products. It's still not a mature market, but it's definitely improving each year. There's only a few incandescents I have left that I can't find a suitable LED replacement for (yet).
 

JasonJ

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Fantastic feedback! Thank you, I appreciate it.

Yeah, the 6500k thing... ugh. I dunno.. sometimes I like it, because it really lights up the whole room.. other times.. eh. We dont use those lights very often. With the exception of the front/rear porch lights, my single hallway light, and my garage door opener, all of my light fixtures are open, not enclosed at all. No dimmers at all.

The only light(s) that get turned on/off/on/off, etc frequently is the bathroom. Two fixtures on either side of the mirror fed by a single switch.

I may just have to go and sample a bunch of lights at HD, Lowes, or Menards... I think I could deal with 5000k and be happy though. But I may have serious issue with any CRI under 90.
 

idleprocess

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I may just have to go and sample a bunch of lights at HD, Lowes, or Menards... I think I could deal with 5000k and be happy though. But I may have serious issue with any CRI under 90.

HD/Lowes/etc appeal to the more cost-conscious segments of the market, thus in the A19 space you're going to find products such as the Cree 4-Flow which only claim ">80" CRI, implying that it's more like 80.1 CRI than it is 90 CRI. Similar story with the original Cree bulb. Lowes doesn't post detailed specifications on their Sylvania nor Osram bulbs. 120Hz flicker is also common with these bulbs, which can be an issue with prolonged exposure.

I gather that the mass-market selection of recessed-can bulbs is much more broad and they're of better quality (with resulting greater prices, natch), but I don't have any experience with them.
 

Mr Floppy

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My house is primarily converted to Ikea bulbs. Living close to an ikea helps but the bulbs all say 80+ cri 2700K. Their early bulbs had a peachy rose tint but the latest bulbs are great in both cri and tint. The only light that isn't led is the ikea floor lamp which has a dimmer. None of the dimming bulbs from ikea work with the dimmer.

The bathroom has a special R80 led replacement that is very much heat sink as it is in a 3in1 unit. It uses a number of Samsung smd leds but tint is more 3000K and cri is lower than the ikea. The Mrs puts on the halogen heaters to put the make up on anyway.

The only other led replacement is from Aldi. It has a self dimmer. If you quickly switch the light off and on, it toggles between 100% and 30% output. cri is pretty good but tint is not 2700K like specified.

Been a number of years now so can't remember what the bills were like but prior to that had cfl. Only had to change the bulb in the oven fridge and floor lamp over the last 5 years I'd say
 

poiihy

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But I may have serious issue with any CRI under 90.

If you have no problem right now with your CFLs then you won't have any problem with the LEDs. CFLs usually have CRI of about 80; some as low as 60.
 

brickbat

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Are we just getting too damn fussy? I mean really, I don't recall my parents debating the puts and takes of 4000K vs. 6500k. Or somehow not able to live with any light source under 80 CRI. Just pick the color you like and move on. Sometimes I think this forum contains nothing but princesses unable to sleep on a pea.

First world problems - yawn...
 

poiihy

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Are we just getting too damn fussy? I mean really, I don't recall my parents debating the puts and takes of 4000K vs. 6500k. Or somehow not able to live with any light source under 80 CRI. Just pick the color you like and move on. Sometimes I think this forum contains nothing but princesses unable to sleep on a pea.

First world problems - yawn...

Ahh, the good old days of incandescent bulbs where the only difference between bulbs is color and brightness.
 

CoveAxe

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Part of the point of this forum (unless I'm grossly misunderstanding it) is to share experiences about lighting and what seems to work and what doesn't.

JasonJ specifically asked about advice for getting some LED bulbs. What do you want us to say? "Just get whatever"?

If he is happy with his 6500k lights, then good for him. No one has told him that he has to switch or get anything in particular. People have just said that 6500k is almost universally considered very blue as a light source, or that a higher CRI looks better. I would hardly consider these to be controversial opinions.
 

markr6

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Are we just getting too damn fussy? I mean really, I don't recall my parents debating the puts and takes of 4000K vs. 6500k. Or somehow not able to live with any light source under 80 CRI. Just pick the color you like and move on. Sometimes I think this forum contains nothing but princesses unable to sleep on a pea.

First world problems - yawn...

Incandescents were SO easy. Mostly 40, 60 75, 100W flavors with a few others on a limited basis. Now we're FLOODED with hundreds of brands offering everything under the sun. CRI, CCT, wattage, and tint variations even regardless of the CCT or CRI - due to cheap LEDs or some other factor. Then look at the pricing of these things going from $20 one day to $6 the next.

If people want to settle and think crap 80CRI is good enough, that's fine. You're allowed to buy whatever you want. But it simply renders colors incorrectly. Maybe even in a way you PREFER, but it's still incorrect.

Here's just one example I was looking at last night. These are 2 identical nightstands. Sure, if you only look at the top one, it will look OK. But in comparison the difference is huge (at least in person). This is the best my iphone could do. I really doesn't do justice to the incandescent by showing too much red and overexposed in general, but you get the idea. In person, the LED is some weird greenish wood that I did not buy at the furniture store!

nightstand.jpg
 

markr6

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Stupid remarks won't help JasonJ in his decision.

I'm just passing along info as there is much to consider. Of course if he wanted to light his entire house with yellow bug lights, I'm sure he won't die and could get thru the day...but why would he want to?
 

JasonJ

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Ignoring the stupidity and bantering....

My living room and bedrooms are painted and decorated in very specific color pallets. I'd like the color of my walls to match what I thought I had painted them. CRI does matter, and while I am not have realized my current 6500k CFL bulbs were so bad, id like to not continue with crap lighting.

That being said, I also don't have the patience nor the desire to spend money experimenting with options that are easily selectable from the beginning.

Thanks to those who understood and contributed something helpful.
 

Anders Hoveland

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My living room and bedrooms are painted and decorated in very specific color pallets. I'd like the color of my walls to match what I thought I had painted them.
LED bulbs may not have great CRI, but the spectrum of LED light tends to mess with the appearance of colors in a very predictable way. It really depends what the color pallet is. If the wall color is golden yellow, lime green, or a deep hue of blue, there should not be any problems. If the walls are forest green, a low color temperature LED bulb may render them with a slightly yellowish cast, but this only tends to be noticeable with lower color temperature LED bulbs. Generally LEDs are not good if there are many wood tones in the room, but special "high CRI" LED spotlights solve this problem, though they are more expensive.



If people want to settle and think crap 80CRI is good enough, that's fine. You're allowed to buy whatever you want. But it simply renders colors incorrectly. Maybe even in a way you PREFER, but it's still incorrect.

Here's just one example I was looking at last night. These are 2 identical nightstands. Sure, if you only look at the top one, it will look OK. But in comparison the difference is huge (at least in person). This is the best my iphone could do. I really doesn't do justice to the incandescent by showing too much red and overexposed in general, but you get the idea. In person, the LED is some weird greenish wood that I did not buy at the furniture store!
That is certainly true. Those camera pictures do not capture the full the difference as it appears in person.

I will say however that wood colors and reds do not look quite as terrible under 85 CRI ≥4000K LED, though these red colors still are not rendered as brightly as they would be under natural light (or the tones appear a little dead).


Are we just getting too damn fussy? I mean really, I don't recall my parents debating the puts and takes of 4000K vs. 6500k. Or somehow not able to live with any light source under 80 CRI.
Yes, but the bulbs back then were all incandescent, close to the same color temperature (2700-2900K), and all with nearly 100 CRI. Most homes did not have fluorescent fixtures, or if they did it was only in the kitchen and garage, and fluorescent was commonly regarded as poorer quality of light, but people put up with it so they could have a higher color temperature, whiter color of light. Things were simpler back then. Now there are so many options, many consumers do not know where to begin.
 
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markr6

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My living room and bedrooms are painted and decorated in very specific color pallets. I'd like the color of my walls to match what I thought I had painted them.

Exactly! Hopefully your other remarks were not directed towards me because I was trying to help. This old post from me in another related thread is spot on with that you are saying about quality lighting and the objects/painting in your home:

Too bad they sell this junk and people don't care more about quality.

People will spend $4/drink at Starbucks, everyday, but won't pay $15 for a good quality bulb with great color quality. A bulb which will be the sole source of light in their home for 4, 6 or even 12 hours every day. I guess I think differently. I think about the investment I made in the home; the paint color that took forever to decide on, the furniture which wasn't cheap, the time it took to find the right color carpet, the food you prepare and enjoy every night, the smile on my son's face when I make him laugh. I'll pay an extra $8 for a high CRI bulb to see these things under a higher quality of light. That's about $.002 per day, or 6 CENTS per month. I guarantee I won't miss that $8 after 10 years. Heck, it may last twice as long. Or half...still doesn't matter.


If brickbat expects something OTHER than "fussiness" on a forum dedicated specifically to lighting and quality products, than I don't know what to tell him.
 
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