1156 LED replacement?

I have a situation that I'm hoping you may be able to help me with. I will try to keep this as brief as possible.


I live in a very rural part of the Northeast where we get quite a bit of snow during the winter months and have a John Deere X500 that I use for snow removal. The JD utilizes two 1156 incandescent bulbs which product approximately 402 lumen's each in the headlight assemblies. What I have found is that these bulbs just don't produce enough light to safely plow snow in early morning or evening hours. One thought was to replace the standard 1156 with a 35-watt halogen variant but I feel the additional heat dissipated by these bulbs would present a significant problem given the small plastic housing these bulbs are mounted in.


My second thought was to use 1156 LED bulbs. However in researching LED replacements for the 1156 I'm finding many retailers of these bulbs are posting lumen ratings of up to 1260, which I find extremely high for an LED bulb of this size. I suspect many of the retailers are posting raw lumens as opposed to effective lumens either through ignorance or deceptive marketing. In either case I am very hesitant to purchase any of these bulbs based on the lumen ratings.
I would appreciate any comments or suggestions regarding a replacement for the current 1156 incandescent bulb. Thanks to all.

Bill

Welcome to the CandlePowerForums, wml52!

wml52 said:

I... have a John Deere X500 that I use for snow removal. The JD utilizes two 1156 incandescent bulbs which product approximately 402 lumens each in the headlight assemblies. What I have found is that these bulbs just don't produce enough light to safely plow snow in early morning or evening hours. One thought was to replace the standard 1156 with a 35-watt halogen variant but I feel the additional heat dissipated by these bulbs would present a significant problem given the small plastic housing these bulbs are mounted in.

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The best incandescent upgrade for the 1156 would be the 796 which will not produce excessive heat, and will maintain the beam focus. The LED drop ins you're looking at are probably all junk-- the giveaway is the high lumen value given. For an LED, the Philips here might fit the bill, but they're designed for interior LEDs or stop and turn lights.

The biggest problem is that the X500's 'headlamps' are essentially headlamp-shaped devices, that aren't really headlamps. You might want to get some snowplow lights, like these.

Alaric Darconville said:

The best incandescent upgrade for the 1156 would be the 796 which will not produce excessive heat

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That's true in most applications, but the most frequent automotive application of this bulb as a retrofit is in back-up lights, which are only used for a brief period of time so there's not enough time for the extra heat this bulb produces to cause a problem. The extra heat might not be OK in this case, which calls for prolonged operation of the bulbs in a very cheap plastic assembly.

For an LED, the Philips here might fit the bill, but they're designed for interior LEDs or stop and turn lights.

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The linked Philips LED bulb is actually designed for back-up lights, and it is probably the best bulb for this particular application.

(it's true that most LED bulbs are junk, with totally fictional lumen claims.)

The biggest problem is that the X500's 'headlamps' are essentially headlamp-shaped devices, that aren't really headlamps.

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I agree...but they might be made good enough with the LED bulbs. It's worth a shot; they don't cost much. If still not good enough, the next step would depend on what amount of money is available to buy additional lights, and what mounting options exist for them on the X500.

Remember that the housing is designed to take the heat on a warm summer night. You are snow plowing in the winter. That gives you some extra thermal margin. I had the same problem with a yard tractor and upgraded the bulb to a halogen equivalent (may have been 796). It was a good upgrade, but eventually I was frustrated and and added a DC\DC to maintain a better voltage at the bulb. Today, I would just buy a $40, 2000+ lumen LED worklight and find somewhere to bolt it on.

-Virgil- said:

That's true in most applications, but the most frequent automotive application of this bulb as a retrofit is in back-up lights, which are only used for a brief period of time so there's not enough time for the extra heat this bulb produces to cause a problem. The extra heat might not be OK in this case, which calls for prolonged operation of the bulbs in a very cheap plastic assembly.

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True, for nighttime in the summer it might be a problem. SemiMan did remind us that ostensibly it'll be for snowplowing-- but then again, who would swap bulbs with the season's change?

The linked Philips LED bulb is actually designed for back-up lights, and it is probably the best bulb for this particular application.

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True, they are for backup lights. They'd also work in the dome light of a '65 Dart or Valiant Signet 100.

It's worth a shot; they don't cost much. If still not good enough, the next step would depend on what amount of money is available to buy additional lights, and what mounting options exist for them on the X500.

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There might not be many options for mounting directly on the X500 itself, but perhaps on the plow attachment there are. Another advantage of putting them on the plow attachment is that you're not shining brighter lights on the blade, you're shining them out onto the snow.

Alaric Darconville said:

True, they are for backup lights. They'd also work in the dome light of a '65 Dart or Valiant Signet 100.

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I hate to be an ornery cuss...who am I kidding, I love to be an ornery cuss! ;-) But it does not look like that's the case. The 1965 Dart and the 1965 Valiant call for a #1004 bulb in the dome light. The #1004 has a BA15d base, which is not compatible with the BA15s base of the linked Philips LED bulb.

-Virgil- said:

I hate to be an ornery cuss...who am I kidding, I love to be an ornery cuss! ;-) But it does not look like that's the case. The 1965 Dart and the 1965 Valiant call for a #1004 bulb in the dome light. The #1004 has a BA15d base, which is not compatible with the BA15s base of the linked Philips LED bulb.

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I haven't owned that Dart since '99. Now that I think about it, it was tricky to find a bulb when mine burned out. I'm a doof!

(You told me I was wrong! And you used FACTS!!!! Facts that are easily verified and are completely objective!!! Your1​ a H8R!!!!!)

1​Intentional misuse of the possessive pronoun for effect

I'm using the Philips LEDs as reverse lights. The white ones do get considerably hotter than the red versions, but I'm not sure how they compare relative to a typical tungsten 1156, or how that might affect a fixture.

But I do wonder, given that they're spec'd for reverse lights, whether the heatsinking has sufficient margin in longer duty usage to keep the LEDs sufficiently cool. One reviewer on Amazon said they're using them in DRLs, and hasn't followed up with a failure report, so I guess they may be OK.

I've also see an indication that Osram is preparing to complete more closely with Philips in the PnP LED miniature bulb segment. Anyone know anything more? It will be nice to have more legitimate contenders, and more real alternatives to the Xmas-tree stuff.

TheIntruder said:

One reviewer on Amazon said they're using them in DRLs, and hasn't followed up with a failure report, so I guess they may be OK.

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That person may not have followed up with a failure report out of sheer embarrassment.

TheIntruder said:

I've also see an indication that Osram is preparing to complete more closely with Philips in the PnP LED miniature bulb segment. Anyone know anything more?

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Their present product, sold under the Sylvania "Zevo" brand, is a pathetic joke. They're going to have to do a lot better if they want to compete for real. At the last ISAL symposium in Germany in 2013 they showed some really interesting LED bulb retrofit prototypes (white LED in bulb base, light guide to put the light in the shape/size/position of a filament) but so far they haven't commercialized it.

Alaric Darconville said:

That person may not have followed up with a failure report out of sheer embarrassment.

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Perhaps. But there are a lot of Amazon reviewers out there who aren't embarrassed to post whatever comes to mind, germane or not. I could easily imagine a negative review expressing anger that said Philips burned out "prematurely" or melted their fixture because it was running in a longer duty cycle than intended, while ignoring the improper application.

-Virgil- said:

Their present product, sold under the Sylvania "Zevo" brand, is a pathetic joke. They're going to have to do a lot better if they want to compete for real. At the last ISAL symposium in Germany in 2013 they showed some really interesting LED bulb retrofit prototypes (white LED in bulb base, light guide to put the light in the shape/size/position of a filament) but so far they haven't commercialized it.

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I wholeheartedly agree with you there. But there have been pictures posted of a new Zevo wedge bulb that's similar to the Phllips X-treme Ultinon (not sold here) and Vision, with angled emitters aimed at the reflector. It appears to maybe even have separate high/low emitters.

The line is supposed to be updated in the near future. So they might have finally reached the level of parity, if not surpassed what Philips has produced thus far.

TheIntruder said:

But there have been pictures posted of a new Zevo wedge bulb that's similar to the Phllips X-treme Ultinon (not sold here) and Vision, with angled emitters aimed at the reflector. It appears to maybe even have separate high/low emitters.

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Link...?

-Virgil- said:

Link...?

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http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/sho...3-40-921-LED-s&p=851416&viewfull=1#post851416
http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/sho...3-40-921-LED-s&p=851438&viewfull=1#post851438

Those are interesting. I'll have to go in search. Certainly a much more promising architecture than the present Zevo bulbs.

BEWARE! I can tell you from personal experience, I swapped out the 1156 bulbs for 796 bulbs as DRLs and they melted the sockets to the point of needing replacement. I would not suggest using 796 bulbs in applications where they will be active for extended periods of time.

Whoah, yeah, I would definitely not use 796s as DRLs in most applications, for exactly that reason. Not for stop (brake) lights or turn signals, either; their rise time is too slow.

Well after doing some searching I "think" I may have found a solution to my anemic 1156 lighting issue.

I found a HID kit that is sold as a replacement/mod for reverse lamps. Although I can't see the reason for wanting to do this but it's apparently very popular now a days.

It's a China import I got off EBay for $35.00, so if it fails in the long run no biggie. Kit consisted of 15-watt ballasts 4300K bulbs and 1156 adapters. After the install I ran one HID on the left and one 1156 in the right for about 2.5 hours straight and so far so good no smoke or smell of molten plastic. In fact the HID seems to run a little cooler then the 1156 determined by using my very scientific method of placing the palm of my hands against the clear lenses. I do have to admit I was skeptical with regard to this cheep, errrr inexpensive HID kit but the light output is far superior to the 1156, I would venture to guess more then double and the color temp is much better as well.

I'll keep you posted if the Wild E Coyote ACME HID bulb experiment fails. Thanks again to all who contributed, your input was much appreciated.

Bill

wml52 said:

After the install I ran one HID on the left and one 1156 in the right for about 2.5 hours straight and so far so good no smoke or smell of molten plastic. In fact the HID seems to run a little cooler then the 1156 determined by using my very scientific method of placing the palm of my hands against the clear lenses. I do have to admit I was skeptical with regard to this cheep, errrr inexpensive HID kit but the light output is far superior to the 1156, I would venture to guess more then double and the color temp is much better as well.

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Working well now, but under the rigors of snow and cold and all that, I wouldn't be surprised if it poofed soon. Also, be very careful it doesn't present an electrocution hazard.

HID reverse lamps are a great idea for people who want to burn out arc-discharge capsules by running them only for very short instances and having them flicker on whenever the gear selector is moved from a forward gear or neutral to the park position.

How many watts (or maybe spec'd in amps) is the lighting stator on the tractor? Or does it all just run off the battery charging stator? LED lamps may be a better choice due to the lower power consumption and lack of initial startup current surge. If you're handy at making things there's some semi decent LED fog lamp sealed assemblies on Aliexpress with a horizontally wide but vertically narrow light pattern that produce roughly 1000 lumen each that could be a reasonable option for this plow.
On my Auntie's JD lawn tractor with a Kohler 'thumper' I installed a pair of 35W trapezoid tractor lights on a relay harness from the battery to light her up at night for plowing, they looked like eyes on either side of the fiberglass hood! They worked well enough and had enough throw to them to see for plowing her driveway at night in the snow and didn't seem to consume enough to hurt the tractor's charging stator for the battery, this tractor never had any lights built into it.
(Had to leave the ground wire a little scraggly to let the hood pivot, but did clean it up later with some split loom and tape)


Here's the LED 'fog lights' I'm referring to from Aliexpress.
http://www.aliеxprеss.com/itеm/Hott...-Jееp-Wranglеr-JK-High-Powеr/32337597673.html
They appear to me to be a clone of the JW speaker style LED lights and could be mounted inside PVC pipe affixed to the tractor somewhere up front, if you don't mind doing some hacking. The beam pattern may be acceptable when the snow flies since it's constrained vertically and can be aimed down at the work area instead of just flooding all over. That's why the trap tractor lights worked well, and because they were mounted low and had a warmer color temp as well. That's the only downside I see for LED or HID in this application, the higher amount of blue in the light may be more glaring off the fallen or falling snow. Warmer colors are easier on my own eyes in rain and snow, not sure about everyone else.

I also saw these and they look interesting but I suspect that when the snow flies you'd get NOTHING but light scattered back in your eyes.
http://www.aliеxprеss.com/itеm/7-45...k-jееp-suv-atv-offroad-KR7452/1807926676.html

Bitter said:

there's some semi decent LED fog lamp sealed assemblies on Aliexpress with a horizontally wide but vertically narrow light pattern that produce roughly 1000 lumen each

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Yeah, so the maker says, among other very dubious claims. Reality almost certainly doesn't accord.