I was at the TAD Gear web site and saw they were expecting these lights soon. They said it had an intergrated "porcupine" forward bezel and an all new impact tail for self-defense applications.
Has anyone seen these or have pics of what they will look like?
Wow, just when I think I'm going to start looking beyond SF for my flashlight needs, they come up with yet another product I'm going to have to buy. Damn them.
I'm guessing it's something like the A2 porcupine bezel, and a protruding switch that offers protection for the rubber button and allows that side of the light to be used as an impact weapon (palm-stick style).
I am not sure if the production model will look like the one I have seen. Please understand that I won't post any pictures of it here, because they obviously weren't indented for the public and are also offline by now. As you might have guessed, other people on the forum are already in the possesion of this light.
But I'll better shut up now... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif[/img]
This sounds pretty cool...Looks like there will be a few cool new lights in 2004. This would be particularily cool with a 120 lumen lamp. Does anyone have a pic or release date?
As a flashlight enthusiast, I feel I have to speak out against this again.
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I like SureFire`s flashlights very much. I enjoy the powerful, smooth beams. The construction is first-rate. The deisgns are very innovative especially the new deep-reflectored LED models or the A2/L1 with the two stage pressure switch. When the original 6P/6C came out it was a revolution. But there is one thing I can`t stand, and that`s turning flashlights into weapons. Sure you can bash someone with a D-cell Mag, and an UltraStinger can do double-duty as a baton if absolutely necessary, but that wasn`t the prime motivation behind their design.
The Porcupine made me cringe, the "new M3" made me shudder, this thing sounds even worse. I hate the TID cookie-cutter things but at least those are third-party, removable aftermarket options.
I can only hope this is not the direction SF wants to go for the future, with teeth and nails all over the place. It has law-suit written all over it. Who knows, in this land I live in where the general public are allowed nothing in the way of self defence besides quick wits and a heavy fist, if SF lights gain a reputation as being weapons, thy will end up being banned here too. People will hear the name SureFire, they will remember the court cases they saw on TV involving people being attacked with these sharpened flashlights, and over-react. There goes my collection of high performance flashlights. OK that may be a selfish view but would it not also seriously affect the progress of flashlight technology? Will we be left with dim AA maglites, as the high-power Xenon lites have been classified along with pepper spray and tasers? If police officers can`t tell if that small, bright lamp someone`s using has sharpened points around the end, I can see that happening here.
I know the general public is not their no.1 market, and there will be certain situations where a properly trained person can use one of these DNA collectors to their advantage. I know this "E2D" is just an option and I don`t have to buy it (I hope it doesn`t replace the E2e) but I think this general new direction they are heading in is a mistake. Will all their new lights have sharp edges? I hope not. I have heard some defend the new-design M3 as saying it`s just scalloping so you can see if it`s been left on, but surely that can`t be right? Look how deep the cutouts are, look how sharp the edges are. Scalloping is the gentle grooves on the KL1, not deep gouges that can be used to jab people with.
A limited-avaliability range of accessories that could be sold to, and used by, properly trained personnel, now I don`t object to that. But making everyone who buys a new M3 (or whatever standard light gets this re-design next) have a light with a jagged edge around the lens is surely wrong. If they want to make these things, make them options not the default, and don`t sell them to the public, please!
I would be interested to hear the results of your discussion. I hope it`s just a phase they`re going through. The world needs better flashlights, it already has plenty of weapons.
I totally agree with what Chris M. has mentioned. I am from Singapore and there are very strict rules on weapon control. Even buying a knife is an issue. No double edge knife. Forget about guns. I do envy some of you guys there who are able to lug your 12 guage Mossberg or Remington and attach an L5 or L6 on a typical hunting trip but not here in Singapore.
You guys may not believe this but Surefire was nearly banned in Singapore because it was classified as a defence light. The only ones who are allowed to use Surefire are the LEOs. I guess the rest are self explainatory.
[ QUOTE ] pjandyho said:
...You guys may not believe this but Surefire was nearly banned in Singapore because it was classified as a defence light. The only ones who are allowed to use Surefire are the LEOs. I guess the rest are self explainatory.
Andy Ho
[/ QUOTE ]
I understand that Singapore is a tightly, even rigidly controlled society, but what exactly was their objection to the Surefire lights? Was it guilt by association with the world of armed defense or was the brightness of the lights considered a weapon in itself, AKA "force option"?
I would be honest man, I do not know why either. I am just very pissed. I heard that the light was finally allowed to consumers after much debate among the top brass. I just hope that the new bezel design would not hinder my purchase of SF products. I am still awaiting the M3 to reach Singapore and I understand that the M3 is going to be supplied with the new aggressive scalloped bezel. What the heck...
Adding more impact weapon capabilities to the lights seems to me to fit in perfectly with SF's mission, though I'd prefer that they not do it to every single light (and I highly doubt that they would). I do deplore the attitude that civilians shouldn't have access to such features -- I feel for you if you live in an authoritarian regime that controls this kind of thing, and I understand if you choose not to purchase a light with such features. But I applaud Surefire for not only introducing the porcupine and solid tailcap shroud, but especially applaud them for having enough trust in their civilian customers to make them generally available.
I strongly doubt we'll see gang members with $250 M3s w/ porcupine, or even $80 E2-Ds. And LEOs/military already have more formidable weapons than a flashlight with some pricks on the end. It's civilians in particular -- civilians who have take the responsibility of protecting themselves seriously -- who are most in need of such features.
A combined light/defensive-impact-weapon makes a TON of sense, for the same reason Tlgerlight's combined light/OCspray makes sense for civilians. You might take the light to spot (and hopefully avoid) problems, use the other defensive features if the problems escalate. Meanwhile, your other hand is free to employ, say, a defensive folder or CCW weapon if available. The entire concept is very sound and is just what civilians in non-CCW states need!. My own recent leanings against SF have completely turned around based on the direction of the E2 Defender. Good for them for taking civilian safety and lives as seriously as they do military and LEO safety and lives.
Surefire E2E Defender
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