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Thread: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

  1. #151

    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Launch Mini, late info but I'd actually recommend the 2xAA setting if you intend to use CR123 primary to suck the juice out of the battery and get the most out of it.
    I use the CR123 setting for 16340 li ion and the 2xAA setting for 2xeneloop/lithium AA and primary CR123. Works fine that way, makes the most out of primaries and doesn't over discharge nor leave short warning on 16340's.

  2. #152
    Flashaholic* Launch Mini's Avatar
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    F89, thanks for that input.
    I was contemplating getting the light for my daughters partner, so wanted to keep the chemistry easy for him.
    Now toying with getting it for myself, and giving him my XM - L "regular" Haiku.
    Out dang CDN dollar isn't helping at all.
    I could save shipping if I pick it up from Don next month

    I do like the size of the 123 body. Bit easier to pocket carry.

  3. #153

    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Quote Originally Posted by F89 View Post
    Launch Mini, late info but I'd actually recommend the 2xAA setting if you intend to use CR123 primary to suck the juice out of the battery and get the most out of it.
    I use the CR123 setting for 16340 li ion and the 2xAA setting for 2xeneloop/lithium AA and primary CR123. Works fine that way, makes the most out of primaries and doesn't over discharge nor leave short warning on 16340's.
    Could you please elaborate on your choice of CR123 setting for 16340 please? If I understand correctly the threshold is 2.5v for that setting, but rechargable 16340 shouldn't be discharged over 3.4V ideally. Do you rely on the built-in battery protection in this case?

  4. #154

    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Launch Mini, that guy better be good to your daughter

    Egdima, no I don't rely on the batteries protection circuit and wouldn't recommend that. In actual use the voltages won't correspond to the chart. I can't remember what I measured when I checked the battery voltage at first step down but it was acceptable, considering I usually like to recharge at around 3.6V. I'll retest and come back with a voltage.
    What I found was that on the li ion settings the step down was quite premature and much preferred the delayed step down of the CR123 setting.
    OK after a quick test here's what I got.
    The light actually shut off rather than stepping down but would fire back up after turning off then back on.
    First stoppage on protected CR123 around 3.4V, I let the battery recover to around 3.5V.
    Second stoppage 3.33V, then I let the battery recover to around 3.4V.
    Third stoppage 3.2V, let it sit and it recoverd to over 3.4V (longer rest) but I didn't continue testing at that point.
    Interestingly enough I put a lifepo in that had been a bit used 3.3V (full charge of around 3.6V) and it happily worked away. I'll come back with a stepdown/stoppage voltage for it later.
    I much prefer the lifepo over li ion protected in McGizmo. They probably don't sag as much under load hence it going strong where the li ion gave up.
    The light was tested on my max setting of 800mA, the LE is currently powering an XML2.
    Lifepo ended up double blink stepping down at around 2.8V and would repeat stepdown process shortly after quick restarts at max output.
    From my testing the protected 16340 shuts off initially at around 3.4V to 3.3V (not via protection circuit) and the Lifepo will actually blink and stepdown at around 2.8V both ran on the CR123 setting. These are not a rested/recovered voltage but a measurement taken shortly after removal.
    For my usage the Hive set for CR123 using li ion 16340 or lifepo and 2XAA setting for lithium primary CR123 or 2XAA lithium/eneloop is preferred.
    Last edited by F89; 12-06-2016 at 06:07 PM.

  5. #155

    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Thank you for doing the test. I got different results for some reason. On the CR123 Primary setting by battery was around ~3.0V after the first step down, way too low. That's why I changed the setting to "Li-ion optimal" and the battery recovers to about 3.5V after the first step down just like in your case. What could the difference be? I am using AW rechargable batteries.

  6. #156

    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Quote Originally Posted by egdima View Post
    Thank you for doing the test. I got different results for some reason. On the CR123 Primary setting by battery was around ~3.0V after the first step down, way too low. That's why I changed the setting to "Li-ion optimal" and the battery recovers to about 3.5V after the first step down just like in your case. What could the difference be? I am using AW rechargable batteries.
    I had actually intended using the black AW for the testing as they are short enough to fit a McGizmo well. The K2 Energy lifepo fit well also.
    However I used an Xtar 16340 which are a touch too long and would possibly dent a little if screwed down tight. I only ever use AW li ion, K2 lifepo or primary CR123 in actual use.
    One factor could be the sag factor of the battery, black AW 16340 aren't the greatest battery but possibly better than most as 16340 are not the best li ion format in my opinion. Anyway they are quite likely better than the Xtar, which aren't new but not extremely old.
    Your AW (and probably mine too) handle load better than the Xtar I tested hence our different results.
    I'll retest later using my fairly fresh AW batteries and see what I get, when I originally tried the configuration I was using AW anyway.
    I favour my K2 lifepo over AW li ion for McGizmo and mainly use K2 for McGizmo (Hive and 3S) and the AW for CR123 sized lights that need the 4.2V (if you set your Hive at 1 to 1.2A you'll need 4.2V, mine is max 800mA).
    Just completed the black AW test and I pretty much got the same result as egdima, step down at 3V. doesn't give you alot of time to change battery but I'm ok with that and I also don't mind draining the little 16340 to that voltage. My theory is that 16340 batteries are pretty crappy, not much capacity and relatively short life span compared to larger batteries. That said I don't mind working them a bit longer for that bit more run time at the possible expense of a shorter life time? 3V isn't too bad anyway although with my VTC5 and NCR18650GA I try and charge at around 3.6V.
    I haven't had an AW 16340 kick it's protection circuit yet.
    Anyway that's how I use my Hive.
    Last edited by F89; 12-07-2016 at 04:30 AM.

  7. #157
    Flashaholic* emarkd's Avatar
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Hey all, new McGizmo owner here, wanting to give a word of warning for other new users who are trying this driver for the first time. I'm going to describe my experience, but if you just want to skip to the punchline I don't blame you. I tend to get long-winded

    First off the programming itself isn't that hard. Its one of those things that sounds complicated when you read it, but once you see the light in operation it really does "click". Took me a few tries to get it, but not long. So in short order I had my light set up like I wanted -- 3 modes, starts in low, no mode memory. Great. But then I got greedy and decided to "tune" mine up to 1.2 amps too. Not sure that 200mA is really gonna do much, but might as well, I guess? Bad idea. After making the necessary adjustment and exiting the programming, my lights started acting all sorts of crazy. It would come on for a second but immediately go back off, sometimes with a funky fade out. Sometimes it wouldn't come on at all until I unscrewed the battery tube and put it back on. No idea what that does since this is a mechanical clicky light, but it did something. I checked the voltage on my battery; it was fine. I thought if I could just get into the programming again and reset it all would be good. Except I couldn't get it in programming.

    Then I had the thought to try with a primary cell. Sure enough, light worked much better on primary, but I don't want to use primaries all the time. So I entered the programming and issue a reset. Good. The light went through some sort of calibration sequence I guess, fading and whatnot, then turned itself off.

    I cycled the switch and turned it back on, and it seemed to be back to factory form -- 4 modes with memory. So of course I pulled my primary and put my 16340 back in. Still didn't work. What tha... So I put the primary back in and jumped back into programming just to check everything over. I noticed that the voltage feedback setting has "reset" to 3 - primary cells. Maybe it auto-senses that on a reset? I don't know, but I set that to li-ion again thinking maybe it would help my 16340s work. Exit programming and swap cells. Still nothing. Primaries go back in but now they don't work right either - flickering and the light is stuck in low. Geez! Now my brand new awesome light isn't working properly with either cell type!

    At this point I'm beyond frustrated and really am not thinking clearly. So I put it all aside to clear my head. Then all of a sudden something else "clicks" -- what does low voltage look like on this driver? Check the manual - two fast blinks and stuck in low. Well that's one mystery solved. Primaries aren't working because I've got it set to li-ions. Makes sense, huh. At this point it registers with me that I haven't really tried a different 16340 cell either. So I go grab one out of the "charged" box, drop it in, and the light works great! Yes! Back into the programming I go: 3 modes (1, 11, 21), no memory, all is good. This time I left that max output setting alone. I dropped that other 16340 on my charger and it reset and started charging. The issue: tripped protection circuit on the cell. Its supposed to be good to 2C and its a 700mAh cell, so it shouldn't trip until 1.4 amps. But mine was tripping out at 1.2.

    TL;DR and the moral of the story: If you think your driver is freaking out and that you've royally screwed something up, make sure its not your battery. And if you're using KeepPower 700mAh 16340's like I am, keep it at an amp.

  8. #158
    Flashaholic* grnamin's Avatar
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    This is my grail light with grail driver. I'd been looking for a driver that had two modes and defaulted to high. The HIVE LD-S delivers!
    -Setting 2 to volatile
    -Setting 3 to 2 output levels
    -Setting 5 to Yes
    -Setting 7 to brightness level 21
    -Setting 8 to brightness level 10
    Thank you, Don and Martin!
    -Greg

  9. #159
    Flashaholic rush's Avatar
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    I want to reply to your question even though it has been a while.

    The HIVE drivers can receive a firmware update in theory as the programming pins are exposed on the boards. However distributing the firmware is not something i would be willing to do and once mounted in the cans it is difficult to reach the pins to reprogram the drivers.

    Future versions of the HIVE firmware might have some additional features but i tried my best to deliver comprehensive configuration options as to not render the current drivers obsolete for the majority of users at some point.

    Thank you for the kind words and hope you are enjoying your light!

    Quote Originally Posted by egdima View Post
    Love the HiVE! I did some minor programming (changing the battery type to "optimal LI-ion") and pointed how well thought out the menu structure and UI was. I wonder, would the firmware be updatable if new versions become released? If so, are there any pins exposed on the board to be able to use JTAG or a 3-pin FTDI serial?

  10. #160
    Flashaholic rush's Avatar
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    The recent posts regarding the "best value" for output reduction setting deliver quite a good picture and i would just like to summarize with my own words.

    The important fact to consider is that the output reduction voltage given in the manual is based on the voltage measured by the driver. There might however be some extra resistance between the battery and the driver or the cell can be aged and show a large voltage sag under load, making the cell appear to be discharged further than it actually is.

    F89 is obviously seeing exactly that effect with some of the 16340 rechargeables, while others are not showing as much voltage sag. Some cells keep a quite low internal resistance through their lifetime, so it is not as much of an issue to others. Of course the effect is even more pronounced when using the HIVE on the highest current of 1200 mA. Some 16340 cells are not really capable of those high currents as emarkd has noted.

    The only way of getting a more acceptable runtime before the output reduction is kicking in when using such aged cells is to use a setting value intended for lower voltage cells. While not really intended that way, luckily there is i. e. the lower "2xAA" value that can be used for primary cells.

    The bottom line is: If your light changes modes unexpectedly when you turn it on or it blinks (two times), always check with a known full cell first. If you want higher currents you will have to use good quality 16340 rechargeables.

  11. #161
    Flashaholic rush's Avatar
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Hi Greg,

    thank you for pointing out that the HiveLD can be configured to start on high first!
    You have full flexibility over the number of output levels and the brightness level of each of them if you have special requirements.

    Its awesome to hear that you have found your grail, thank you!

    Martin

    Quote Originally Posted by grnamin View Post
    This is my grail light with grail driver. I'd been looking for a driver that had two modes and defaulted to high. The HIVE LD-S delivers!
    -Setting 2 to volatile
    -Setting 3 to 2 output levels
    -Setting 5 to Yes
    -Setting 7 to brightness level 21
    -Setting 8 to brightness level 10
    Thank you, Don and Martin!

  12. #162
    Flashaholic* grnamin's Avatar
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Many thanks to you, Martin, and to Don. The HIVE wouldn't be available to us if not for you both.
    -Greg

  13. #163

    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    So I'm just about to order a SunDrop to go with my Haiku, then suddenly I realized I've forgotten everything I learned about the HIVE... I am actually afraid to place the order. I may have to get the 3S just to save myself the embarrassment of emailing Gil. Anyone know about how much output (on high) I would lose if I go that route?


    Quote Originally Posted by wimmer21 View Post
    Hahahaha yeah I got the next one! But in all seriousness... yes I'm a little thickheaded at first and often prone to drama, but once something clicks I have it locked down.

    So yeah anyone with any questions regarding the HiveLD-S just ask away or shoot me a pm. LMAO

  14. #164
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    I think the 3S (3V) drives the Nichia(s) at 500mA, or the Cree(s) at 650mA , at max ....
    Last edited by archimedes; 01-08-2017 at 08:35 PM.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  15. #165

    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Awesome thanks! Now let me see if I can calculate that into lumens....... *blows brains out*

  16. #166
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Quote Originally Posted by wimmer21 View Post
    So I'm just about to order a SunDrop to go with my Haiku, then suddenly I realized I've forgotten everything I learned about the HIVE... I am actually afraid to place the order. I may have to get the 3S just to save myself the embarrassment of emailing Gil. Anyone know about how much output (on high) I would lose if I go that route?
    Okay, okay ... call it ~ "half"

    In other words, you probably won't really even notice the difference
    ... is the archimedes peak

  17. #167

    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    J/k... OK the HIVE does 12mA if I remember right so that would be about a 46 percent loss if I went with the S3. That's not what I wanted to hear. lol

  18. #168

    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Quote Originally Posted by archimedes View Post
    Okay, okay ... call it ~ "half"

    In other words, you probably won't really even notice the difference
    Hahaha

  19. #169
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Quote Originally Posted by wimmer21 View Post
    J/k... OK the HIVE does 12mA if I remember right so that would be about a 46 percent loss if I went with the S3. That's not what I wanted to hear. lol
    If, by that, you mean 1.2A (1200mA), and the 3S ... uhhh, yeah ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wimmer21 View Post
    Hahaha
    Last edited by archimedes; 01-08-2017 at 09:30 PM.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  20. #170
    Flashaholic* emarkd's Avatar
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    The HIVE driver isn't that hard to program. It sounds complicated but the documentation is very thorough, and its really quite easy to do once you've had it in your hands. Besides, you don't have to program anything. It works fine right out of the box, so to speak. And having that flexibility to program later, if you so choose, is well worth buying, in my opinion.

  21. #171

    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    I agree the HIVE is outstanding. I used a graphite pencil to bridge the gap and struggled a bit, but it was my first experience... it really isn't difficult. And while programming the light to 1200mA seemed a little tricky for me... well no one ever mistook me for Steve Hawking.

  22. #172
    Flashaholic Stoneking's Avatar
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    Default New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    So I have a 119 HIVE Haiku 1x123.
    Can I use a 2xAA pack with Energizer AA Lithiums?
    Also, I can't use the 2x123 pack with the HIVE, correct?
    One more, what does the Haiku do when the batteries run low? Does it step down like the HDS?
    Last edited by Stoneking; 03-31-2017 at 02:31 PM.

  23. #173
    Flashaholic rush's Avatar
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Hi Stoneking,

    correct on all points.
    The input voltage range of the HIVE runs from 1.8 to 4.4 Volt, so 2 x AA will work, but 2 x primaries or rechargeable will be too high.
    Once the low voltage detection level is reached, the driver steps down the output and indicates this with a quick blink.

  24. #174
    Flashaholic Stoneking's Avatar
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Rush,

    Thank you for the response, that was quick.
    If you're up for another, how would I use graphite to bridge the gap? I want to program the HIVE but I don't want the ability to program to be permanent.

  25. #175
    Flashaholic* Slumber Pass's Avatar
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Any plans for a 6v HIVE? I'd love to pick up a 2x123 Haiku that will run on a single LiIon or two primaries.

  26. #176
    Flashaholic rush's Avatar
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneking View Post
    Rush,

    Thank you for the response, that was quick.
    If you're up for another, how would I use graphite to bridge the gap? I want to program the HIVE but I don't want the ability to program to be permanent.
    You are welcome, and it was just luck that i saw your message just after you posted ;-)
    To bridge the jumper with graphite you have to really fill the gap with material well, so rub it in with the tip of the pencil. Still it seems to be a bit of hit and miss whether it woks, some pens might be suited better than other too. After you are done programming you could scratch off the graphite from inside the gap.

  27. #177
    Flashaholic rush's Avatar
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slumber Pass View Post
    Any plans for a 6v HIVE? I'd love to pick up a 2x123 Haiku that will run on a single LiIon or two primaries.
    Currently there are no plans for such a driver i am afraid, even though it would be possible.

  28. #178
    *Flashaholic* fyrstormer's Avatar
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    If only there were some way you could ask the enthusiast community whether there is enough interest to warrant producing a 6V driver...

  29. #179
    Flashaholic ironhorse's Avatar
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Don't know if it's been mentioned, but a lockout would be nice. Mine is constantly getting turned on clipped in my pocket.
    I have had to cut a circle out of paper to put between the battery and the head, or I will have a dead battery.

    Are these reverse polarity protected? Could I just flip the battery over to prevent it turning on?

  30. #180
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: New driver from RUSH for the 1x123 "E-Series" lights.

    Quote Originally Posted by ironhorse View Post
    Don't know if it's been mentioned, but a lockout would be nice. Mine is constantly getting turned on clipped in my pocket.
    I have had to cut a circle out of paper to put between the battery and the head, or I will have a dead battery.

    Are these reverse polarity protected? Could I just flip the battery over to prevent it turning on?
    In all of these years, you are the first person to express this problem/ issue with the light. I don't doubt that many have had their light accidentally turned on at times; I know I have but for it to be a chronic problem, this is a first.

    I hope RUSH will chime in on reverse polarity or other concerns of reversing the battery. Other converters I use and have used were not designed with reverse polarity protection. The design of the light engine itself originally provided for a mechanical reverse polarity protection in that the anode contact could be flush or even recessed a bit from the aft lip of the light engine can. With a conventional CR123 battery, this meant that if put in backwards, there would be a gap between the anode contact and the rear cathode contact surface on the battery. Since reverse polarity has not been an expressed problem over the years, I have taken to providing a higher anode contact on the light engine to allow for wear and assume that some of the RCR123 batteries might not share in the same physical geometry at the cathode end of the battery. That being said, depending on what batteries you use, you might consider filing down the anode contact to below the lip edge on the rear of the light engine so you could use this mechanical gap as a lock out. Sorry you are having this problem!! The LOTC 1x1233 battery pak I used to make in titanium would solve the unwanted activation problem but had no clip which is what motivated the current clickie pak design.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

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