How risky is buying batteries on ebay or Amazon?

I know just about everything can be and is counterfeited by the Chinese or overseas but are lithium batteries still a safe bet? I see them for a pretty good deal on ebay, but wonder if they are genuine?

You are brave sir. Proceed with extreme caution. I could not do it. It would probably be in your best bet to use vendors here or Mtn. Electronics. That pretty much so will keep you safe.

There's an ongoing thread about where people prefer to buy their batteries & chargers, which might be of interest:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-favorite-place-to-buy-batteries-and-chargers

Members from both the US and the EU have contributed their suggestions.

Thanks!

Dr. Tweedbucket said:

I know just about everything can be and is counterfeited by the Chinese or overseas but are lithium batteries still a safe bet? I see them for a pretty good deal on ebay, but wonder if they are genuine?

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A pretty good deal? You mean cheap? The reality with todays consumer world is that the majority of people buy on price alone. Which is why you can still find 4000mah 18650 batteries for sale on the internet when there is no such thing!

I've had good luck buying from Amazon, where I prefer products they sell themselves, but also buy from highly recommended 3rd party sellers (recommended for batteries specifically). I've avoided eBay because in my opinion, they don't save you enough money to justify the risk.

Really?

We're talking a few bucks in price going from the bottom dwellers of dubious report to going with a place like Illumination, Mountain Electronics, RTD Vapor, even FastTech (all places I've used in the past.)

Unless you're buying a hundred cells at a time, isn't 'peace of mind' worth $10-$20?

With li-ion anything, it's always best to spend a little more and get tested stuff with a good reputation.

Cheap out on lights, if you need save a few bucks.

Chris

I recently came upon this Product Liability Assessment that was prepared by the law firm of Wilson Elser. That firm advises insurance companies and product manufacturers in cases involving property damage and personal injury in fires allegedly caused by Li-ion batteries. Their assessment is a good read.

Although the document is now almost 10 years old, its main point is clear. Insurance companies are looking for valid reasons to duck liability. If your home burns down in a fire caused by a counterfeit battery, you might find yourself in a battle with an insurance company that does not want to pay.

Right now, I can buy the Sanyo-Panasonic NCR18650GA Protected 3500mAh for $10 USD at Mountain Electronics. How much less is it on Amazon and Ebay, around $2 or $3?

I'm going to tip more than that when I go out to dinner tonight.

I have only bought batteries from amazon... though I'm new.

I have about 4 samsung 18650s, 4 aaa eneloops, 2 aa eneloops, and 2 efest 10440s, all from amazon.

None of the batteries shown any faults whatsoever. But I tend to buy brands I'm familiar with. I'll never buy a lower priced battery unless reputable.

ChrisGarrett said:

Really?

We're talking a few bucks in price going from the bottom dwellers of dubious report to going with a place like Illumination, Mountain Electronics, RTD Vapor, even FastTech (all places I've used in the past.)

Unless you're buying a hundred cells at a time, isn't 'peace of mind' worth $10-$20?

With li-ion anything, it's always best to spend a little more and get tested stuff with a good reputation.

Cheap out on lights, if you need save a few bucks.

Chris

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I trust Amazon (but not their 3rd party resellers) as much as I do anyone I buy anything from. I get lithium primaries there, but not li-ion because their selection and pricing are not great. It's a place I already do business with frequently, and I appreciate the faster shipping. I've bought from Fasttech as well - they seem to be the cheapest, although their delivery time is abysmal - but I don't trust them as much as I do Amazon.

1DaveN said:

I trust Amazon (but not their 3rd party resellers) as much as I do anyone I buy anything from. I get lithium primaries there, but not li-ion because their selection and pricing are not great.

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We agree.

For Eneloop and lithium primary, "sold by and fulfilled by Amazon" is good enough for me. I have not had to face a decision regarding Li-ion, because of the reasons you cite: Amazon does not have good prices or selection.

1DaveN said:

I've bought from Fasttech as well - they seem to be the cheapest, although their delivery time is abysmal - but I don't trust them as much as I do Amazon.

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I have not purchased from FastTech. From what I can tell, you need to be wary of all the major Chinese vendors. Sometimes you get the good stuff, and sometimes you don't.

A good rule-of-thumb for me is not to buy Li-ion from any vendor that stocks xxxx-Fire brand. In my opinion, the fact that a vendor is willing to sell xxxx-fire batteries is an indication it doesn't have my best interests at heart.

I guess you two missed all of those fake Eneloops that Amazon was selling last year?

People got their money back...those who knew the difference, but I guess it's your money?

I have a li-ion seller on Ebay that I use and BH Photo for Eneloops, as I trust them, but I haven't used them in a couple of years, or so.

Chris

Just remember: Any reseller, Even trusted and honest, can be duped by Knock off products. It happens all the time. Some of our super good vendors here have been duped on some batteries and LEDs. Once brought to their attention they rectified the situation. But, it can and does happen. I have a few vendors I prefer to deal with here and one or two outside of CPF.

Think about it though. No CPF seller, who wants to stay in business, is going to knowingly sell counterfeit products in lieu of the real mccoy. They may sell a well known knock off, but it will be disclosed and not misrepresented.

I did miss that, but if Amazon can get caught with fake Eneloops, I'm not sure why the same thing couldn't happen to anyone. I don't distrust any of the popular retailers I see recommended on CPF, but I don't see why any of them would be immune to the same thing. Surely none of these companies are buying direct from the manufacturers.

1DaveN said:

I did miss that, but if Amazon can get caught with fake Eneloops, I'm not sure why the same thing couldn't happen to anyone. I don't distrust any of the popular retailers I see recommended on CPF, but I don't see why any of them would be immune to the same thing. Surely none of these companies are buying direct from the manufacturers.

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Because Amazon might not be an expert on li-ion cells, or NiMH batteries and we know that Amazon, whether the company itself, or its associate vendors, aren't going to Japan, or South Korea and buying direct.

Costco in all probability has a deal in place with Panasonic for that Eneloop bundle. I doubt that Amazon, or Bob over on Ebay does, but I could be wrong.

'Stroke is right, anybody can be burned, but people selling batteries, cells and chargers for a living are more in tune with what's going on, than people doing it as an afterthought. When I started with li-ions in 5/12, I found a guy on Ebay 'r-lsales' who was pretty good and recommended him here.

He was nickel and diming things and had some quality cells and then some of the second tier stuff. Once the E-Cig market exploded, he was the man for a stretch, but he started getting some counterfeit batches and people complained. He's had his share of problems, but he's still plugging away.

That was before the Chinese started ramping up the counterfeiting and well...all bets are off now.

Now, when it comes to the smaller guys, who actually post here and earn our trust, I think there's a bit more confidence than what's found on Ebay, or Amazon.

I'm a cheap ******* and will watch my pennies, but sometimes it's just not worth the savings, even if you can get your money back if there's a problem.

I do Amazon and I'm a big Ebayer, so I don't hate on either, but I don't really care to buy li-ion products from unvetted sources, but again...that's just me.

Chris

You bring up a good point - we should be supporting the vendors who support us. Whether it's with good inventory, good service, or just availability here in the forums, I agree that they earn our trust and deserve our business.

I'm with Chris on sticking with the solid sources. But I wouldn't have much hesitation to buy from an Amazon/Ebay seller with 14,097 positive marks. I just don't since the prices never seem to be much lower. And they don't seem to offer what I want anyway (unprotected, button top, mAh, etc)

ChrisGarrett said:

I guess you two missed all of those fake Eneloops that Amazon was selling last year?

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Uh oh! I had not heard about this. I had assumed that Amazon was large enough that it would purchase Eneloops directly from Panasonic. If it had fakes, it must be buying from middlemen.

Edit: Chris, do you remember any of the threads that discuss the fakes from Amazon. I did a search for "fake eneloop amazon." The three threads I have read so far express suppositions that differences in packaging and labeling might indicate fakes, but no conclusion is reached.

KeepingItLight said:

Uh oh! I had not heard about this. I had assumed that Amazon was large enough that it would purchase Eneloops directly from Panasonic. If it had fakes, it must be buying from middlemen.

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I used to be an Amazon seller. For the most part, you're not "buying from Amazon," it's an "Amazon affiliate."

As an Amazon seller, if I decided to rip people off with fakes then that's what happens. The feedback system is supposed to help catch these guys, but it won't stop them from actually doing it.

1DaveN said:

You bring up a good point - we should be supporting the vendors who support us. Whether it's with good inventory, good service, or just availability here in the forums, I agree that they earn our trust and deserve our business.

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Yes, most definitely.

... and I miss lighthound

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/405393

:candle: