Is Surefire really that good?

Honestly is Surefire really that good? I still think it's a great product but it's not truly what I thought it was. I just recently found out about a company called Elzetta. I am shocked this company is not more revered like Surefire.
Have you ever felt really stupid because you thought you knew more than you really did? Turns out I was pretty uneducated. Everything about flashlights you were afraid to ask but wanted to know is answered on the Elzetta website. Elzetta educates you because they really want you to know better. Now I am truly an educated consumer.

I used to be a Surefire fanboy. I used to think they were the best because of the high esteem people on this site placed on them. It is cult-like. Now that I know better, I do not understand why. Let me explain. I am going to base everything I have to say on fact not emotion.

Surefire lights are not potted. Elzetta lights are fully potted. Surefire uses old LED technology. Elzetta uses new more efficient LEDs. What kind of aluminum does Surefire use? I was told Surefire uses anodized Aerospace and airplane grade aluminum. That sounds really impressive doesn't it? In reality it does not mean jack squat. Let me explain, Elzetta uses 6061-T6 aluminum. 28% greater heat and electrical conductivity and 20% greater heat capacity than 7075 – T6 aluminum with a tensile strength 28% greater than 6063–T6. The T6 portion of the material grade refers to the heat treatment and is a critical specification. Surefire does not tell you the grade of aluminum they use because there is nothing special about it. Other than military grade anodizing I am willing to bet it is just a simple cheap grade of aluminum. Surefire wants to keep you in the dark about this. All metals have different grades, you should know what you're buying.

I was going to buy a Surefire EB2 500 lumen light. That is until I found out it really is not a 500 lm light It really is only 350 lm for most of its runtime. (footnote flashlight.com) The Elzetta Bravo 650 lm AVS head runs at a very flat 95% of it's rated output or 617.5 lumens for most of its runtime. ( footnote flashlight.com). 350 lm is a lot less than 500. This is a good case of buyer beware. Both of these lights do use a TIR optic so this is a good comparison.

Elzetta flashlights are all modular. Every piece of the flashlight is field replaceable. Surefire is not. Let's say LED technology improves. Time to purchase a new flashlight for more lumens and better run time. With Surefire you have to buy a whole new flashlight. Elzetta just buy the new LED head. That is a lot less money to upgrade.

The warranty for both these companies is excellent. Each one of these companies will bend over backwards to serve you should you have problems. The durability of Elzetta surpasses Surefire because of superior aluminum, fully potted electronics, and no glass to break in the TIR optic. The tail cap switches in each are excellent quality. I truly don't know which one is better. Being a well educated consumer, is being a smart consumer. I no longer follow cult-like blindness. I buy my flashlights based on education and facts.

Please let's keep this discussion civil and respectful.

No they are not. Are they good flashlights? Hell yes. Unfortunately most of the good ones are designed for fat government contracts which is why they cost us civilians so much. Go to Surfires "Made in the USA" page and read it closely. At the beginning of the page they go off about how made in the USA 100% they are then on the same page admit to sourcing parts overseas. I will admit their cheaper stuff has gotten much better though..

Elzetta is just on a higher level...

Certainly interesting. Haven't owned many Surefire lights except for the G2X Pro and Tactical. Certainly interested in buying an Elzetta too depending on shipping to the UK. However there are a few strong statements here. What evidence do you have to back up some of these claims about Surefire.

ScottFree said:

Certainly interested in buying an Elzetta too depending on shipping to the UK.

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Ordered my two Elzetta lights at Black Sheep Warrior, at paid $16 for shipping.

Scott007... are you affiliated with Elzetta in any way? Not accusing, just asking.

ScottFree said:

Certainly interesting. Haven't owned many Surefire lights except for the G2X Pro and Tactical. Certainly interested in buying an Elzetta too depending on shipping to the UK. However there are a few strong statements here. What evidence do you have to back up some of these claims about Surefire.

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I called Surefire on the phone. I was on hold for a very long time but I got to speak with an engineer. Everything I said came directly from that conversation.

holygeez03 said:

Scott007... are you affiliated with Elzetta in any way? Not accusing, just asking.

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Honestly no. I just became blown away when I found out about them. I have bought and sold more surefires that I can keep track of. This is just a new discovery for me

I like both companies... for the most part, I use Malkoff drop-ins in any light that takes P60 sized engines, so that is a great equalizer in those lights, although the Surefire lenses generally allow for more spill. Not a huge amount, but noticeable when you are used to one and then go to the other. The type of aluminum is interesting to learn about, but to be honest I have never noticed anything to be particularly deficient in heat transfer, strength or electrical conductivity in any of my lights. Other people who customize or mod lights may have a different story.

The two things that are a huge plus with Elzetta is how compact they are compared to three cell Surefires (of course, once you reach that size they are probably going into my bag anyway but it was a pleasant surprise) and the high/low tailcap. My only wish is that Elzetta and Malkoff both put the high/low ring at the same end of the light. At first I was trying to unscrew the head of my Elzetta to go to low, and even today I have to figure out which light is in my hand to twist to low or high instead of going by muscle/brain memory.

As far as the non-P60 based lights go, I am incredibly happy with my "previous generation" Surefires. I love the regulated runtime of my E1B lights especially... I would rather have steady output at a lower level than the ever decreasing levels of some of the newer lights have. I can understand why they make them that way, though... I think a lot of people buy lights based purely on "more lumens = more better" so I guess it is a tie there, too, since my yellow Alpha is brightest when it has a new battery and then gets dimmer from that point on, as a lot of current generation Surefires are.

Of the two, my personal preference tips towards Surefire. I don't know if it is because their hosts are timeless, or because you can find used ones so cheap, but it is generally the brand I put my favorite drop-ins in, and that become my most widely used lights. Variety is the spice of life, though, so I definitely have a few of each brand, though!

CelticCross74 said:

Go to Surfires "Made in the USA" page and read it closely. At the beginning of the page they go off about how made in the USA 100% they are then on the same page admit to sourcing parts overseas. I will admit their cheaper stuff has gotten much better though..

Elzetta is just on a higher level...

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The parts that are made overseas are the LEDs themselves. I don't know too much about LED manufacturing, but I was under the impression that most, if not all of them are made overseas, unless Malkoff/Elzetta has a USA vendor, my guess is that they are in the same boat.

As far as price, I find Surefire hosts to be much less expensive than Elzetta hosts, it is what took me so long to get my first Elzetta a short while back.

The surefire E1B Is still my favorite. I own three of them. They were one of the first to come out with a TIR optic in the regulation is excellent. I also like the way The high low switch works

Scott007 said:

The surefire E1B Is still my favorite. I own three of them. They were one of the first to come out with a TIR optic in the regulation is excellent. I also like the way The high low switch works

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When the used prices started to drop on those, and you could get the gift set for clearance prices, I bought an embarrassing number of E1Bs.

[I am quoting this for posterity. Don't have time at the moment to refute half of what you said at the moment. I find it curious you post the same thing both here and in the Elzetta thread... QUOTE=Scott007;4781174]Honestly is Surefire really that good? I still think it's a great product but it's not truly what I thought it was. I just recently found out about a company called Elzetta. I am shocked this company is not more revered like Surefire.
Have you ever felt really stupid because you thought you knew more than you really did? Turns out I was pretty uneducated. Everything about flashlights you were afraid to ask but wanted to know is answered on the Elzetta website. Elzetta educates you because they really want you to know better. Now I am truly an educated consumer.

I used to be a Surefire fanboy. I used to think they were the best because of the high esteem people on this site placed on them. It is cult-like. Now that I know better, I do not understand why. Let me explain. I am going to base everything I have to say on fact not emotion.

Surefire lights are not potted. Elzetta lights are fully potted. Surefire uses old LED technology. Elzetta uses new more efficient LEDs. What kind of aluminum does Surefire use? I was told Surefire uses anodized Aerospace and airplane grade aluminum. That sounds really impressive doesn't it? In reality it does not mean jack squat. Let me explain, Elzetta uses 6061-T6 aluminum. 28% greater heat and electrical conductivity and 20% greater heat capacity than 7075 – T6 aluminum with a tensile strength 28% greater than 6063–T6. The T6 portion of the material grade refers to the heat treatment and is a critical specification. Surefire does not tell you the grade of aluminum they use because there is nothing special about it. Other than military grade anodizing I am willing to bet it is just a simple cheap grade of aluminum. Surefire wants to keep you in the dark about this. All metals have different grades, you should know what you're buying.

I was going to buy a Surefire EB2 500 lumen light. That is until I found out it really is not a 500 lm light It really is only 350 lm for most of its runtime. (footnote flashlight.com) The Elzetta Bravo 650 lm AVS head runs at a very flat 95% of it's rated output or 617.5 lumens for most of its runtime. ( footnote flashlight.com). 350 lm is a lot less than 500. This is a good case of buyer beware. Both of these lights do use a TIR optic so this is a good comparison.

Elzetta flashlights are all modular. Every piece of the flashlight is field replaceable. Surefire is not. Let's say LED technology improves. Time to purchase a new flashlight for more lumens and better run time. With Surefire you have to buy a whole new flashlight. Elzetta just buy the new LED head. That is a lot less money to upgrade.

The warranty for both these companies is excellent. Each one of these companies will bend over backwards to serve you should you have problems. The durability of Elzetta surpasses Surefire because of superior aluminum, fully potted electronics, and no glass to break in the TIR optic. The tail cap switches in each are excellent quality. I truly don't know which one is better. Being a well educated consumer, is being a smart consumer. I no longer follow cult-like blindness. I buy my flashlights based on education and facts.

Please let's keep this discussion civil and respectful.[/QUOTE]

Edit- PS, it is possible to tout the percieved benefits of other makers without comparing them to Surefire...

While I agree with the OP's premise, the way he presents it sure sounds like shilling.

WalkIntoTheLight said:

While I agree with the OP's premise, the way he presents it sure sounds like shilling.

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I can understand why you might think that. I am new and have not been around here long. I am in my 50s. When I was a little boy my dad used to always tell me how when he was younger all companies that used to sell expensive stuff were huge on-educating you. Their stuff was expensive and the manufacturer wanted you to know why it was worth it. He went on to tell me how this education just stopped. So it sort of brought back memories of my dad, and it was very interesting how History may be repeating itself. How many normal people do you think would pay $200 for a flashlight. They might if they were educated. Or they will look at you like you're crazy.

[h=2]

Is Surefire really that good?[/h]

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Here's how good SureFire is- anytime someone gets super excited about a brand they just discovered, they sit down and write a scathing 1,000 word surefire focused dissertation.

In years past you would pay for a Surefire because of its premium anodizing and customer service second only to Malkoff Devices. Yup; Surefire's to me where amazing hosts that I could lego with drop-ins or have E-builds by Milky or others done for me.

Today, I buy them because they are truly remarkable in releasing astonishing new products. Take the Titan Plus AAA. It does nearly 4watts of power off a single AAA primary and 300 lumens. Where in the world would you get 300 lumens from just 1.5~1.8V input? My only other lights that do this are my direct drive or custom AAA's builds which are also DD and require 4.2V input or 3 AAA. Having or needing somebody to mod them is pointless now since they come updated with the latest and greatest now.

Than you have those EB2's. Slim as they are they make 20K or more lux and 500 lumens. yeah, the Elzetta will do more lumens but its a whole lot bigger and heavier and I bet you it will do half the lux if its lucky.

Scott007 said:

I used to be a Surefire fanboy. I used to think they were the best because of the high esteem people on this site placed on them. It is cult-like. Now that I know better, I do not understand why.

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Scott007 said:

am new and have not been around here long.

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I think you are a troll.

Let me jump in and say i just found out about elzetta recently as well.

I have an e2e exec elite for 12 years, a g2x, a 6p ...so i like surefire lights but i thought they were the best by far based on (i guess) their marketing and popularity.
I was ready to buy a P3x Fury for my next light purchase and i found flashlightguide testing of elzetta and surefire.
I found it interesting how the fury was 1000 lumens for a little while but then was 500-700 lumen light. The elzetta was a little more honest i believe in calling the avs charlie a 900 lumen light becausr the light stays closer to 900 much longer. I also saw where the fury pulls 4 amps which is more than the 1.5 recommended...

I feel like elzetta is a superior built product based on all of the education they offer on their website and the abuse they have taken on youtube... i feel like surefire largely rests on their name and have become somewhat lazy in developing technology

Anothrr biggie was modular construction fornupgrading or changing to the flood lens

Try to keep focused on the post and not the poster. We can refute arguments without getting out out of line. So far so good, but we know how these can go...

ScottFree said:

Certainly interesting. Haven't owned many Surefire lights except for the G2X Pro and Tactical. .

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Is G2X pro not potted?

While elzetta and surefire might be a good flashlight to install on a rifle, or for tactical LEO / military, for everyday use to the average joe their features are lacking. Most of them have a high, and a low of 15 lumens, and maybe strobe. I must admit that I have become a moonlight mode snob; 0.2 lumens is almost too bright to read close up and is enough to light up across a large room indoors, I also have not needed a strobe mode on a flashlight ever.

I think many people buy a surefire to use as an all-around light and are not blown away as they expect to be by the price tag. Of course they are designed for durability and simplicity not max output and features.

I might get a surefire or elzetta to mount on a self defence weapon but it depends on what is being made by other manufacturers at the time.

Edit: I should also add that big box stores are now selling flashlights with equal output. So for people who don't know much about flashlights that buy a surefire, they are doing it just for the name.