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Thread: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

  1. #121
    Flashaholic* TinderBox (UK)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    So where are you guy`s buying them from it`s going to cost me £110/$153

    Ebay is £85 from Hong-Kong then add £17 IMPORT TAX + £8 handling charge = £110

    EDIT: Going to wait till this charger is available from an UK seller at around the £80 mark.

    thanks

    John.

    Quote Originally Posted by tjh View Post
    I don't think it's THAT expensive though, for what it is.
    A dedicated XTAR charger that just does Lion is what, half the price of this?

    This not only does charging, it discharges/analyses, you can tweak every setting perfectly, set high charge currents for faster charging, plus it charges AAA/AA's, NiZN. It's firmware upgradable so it's future proof (as long as the new battery fits into the slot)

    You're getting 5 times the functionality for 2 times the price.

    Makes perfect sense I think.
    Last edited by TinderBox (UK); 02-25-2016 at 04:59 AM.
    "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." - Terry Pratchett.

  2. #122

    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Quote Originally Posted by TinderBox (UK) View Post
    So where are you guy`s buying them from it`s going to cost me £110/$153

    Ebay is £85 from Hong-Kong then add £17 IMPORT TAX + £8 handling charge = £110

    EDIT: Going to wait till this charger is available from an UK seller at around the £80 mark.

    thanks

    John.
    I just ordered mine from Amazon (USA)

  3. #123
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    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    One thing is small issues, another thing is a defect charger. On any product there will be a small percent of defect products, what is interesting is how the seller handles it.
    Amen............
    Thank you for your great reviews and all the work you put into them HKJ!!
    It simply amazes me at all the excellent information you provide for mere mortals such as myself!
    The way you explain things in such a concise manner, even I can understand most of it.
    I appreciate that.....
    Best regards.

  4. #124
    Enlightened Joe Kidd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Quote Originally Posted by xdriver View Post
    I just ordered mine from Amazon (USA)
    Got one today from them also, but I decided to return it. I felt after reading all the data here and the operating manual, I didn't have the time to dedicate to it. For now I'll stick with my slow VP4, but the MC3000 sure is a interesting charger.
    Last edited by Joe Kidd; 02-26-2016 at 06:10 PM.
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  5. #125
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    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    I couldn't stand it any longer so I ordered one from Progressive RC a couple of hours ago. Looking forward to receiving it and trying to apply what I have been reading & studying about the MC3000 the last few weeks.
    Let the learning begin..............

  6. #126
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    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Kidd View Post
    Got one today from them also, but I decided to return it. I felt after reading all the data here and the operating manual, I didn't have the time to dedicate to it. For now I'll stick with my slow VP4, but the MC3000 sure is a interesting charger.
    Once you become more familiar with it, you can create all the programs you need in less than five minutes. It is the most accurate and capable cylindrical cell charger available. If you haven't returned it yet, you should reconsider.

  7. #127

    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Thanks HKJ for the interesting review here.
    I have a question.
    This charger uses non-pulse DC for NiMH/NiCd. But I read it somewhere that pulse DC (or PWM) is always better for NiMH/NiCd (both charge and discharge) because it increases battery ability to discharge at high current. And I remember there is also some other benefit mentioned.
    Is this true? If yes, I hope in V2 MC3000, they could use PWM to charge/discharge NiMH/NiCd.

  8. #128
    HKJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Quote Originally Posted by tbx8192 View Post
    Thanks HKJ for the interesting review here.
    I have a question.
    This charger uses non-pulse DC for NiMH/NiCd. But I read it somewhere that pulse DC (or PWM) is always better for NiMH/NiCd (both charge and discharge) because it increases battery ability to discharge at high current. And I remember there is also some other benefit mentioned.
    Is this true? If yes, I hope in V2 MC3000, they could use PWM to charge/discharge NiMH/NiCd.
    There would be no point in using pulsed discharge, except if typical loads are pulsed.
    I have not seen reliable test with pulsed/non-pulses charging, if the difference is very small it is moot anyway.
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  9. #129

    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    The only things sure about pulsed charge is that for an efficiency point of view (energy accumulated/total energy input) it can only worse than constant current.
    The losses in the internal resistance of the battery are proportional to the square of the current, so for example for a pulsed charge with 50% of duty cycle with amplitude X vs a constant current with amplitude X/2 the losses in the internal resistance are the double causing the battery to heat more.

  10. #130
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    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Quote Originally Posted by kappa7 View Post
    The only things sure about pulsed charge is that for an efficiency point of view (energy accumulated/total energy input) it can only worse than constant current.
    The losses in the internal resistance of the battery are proportional to the square of the current, so for example for a pulsed charge with 50% of duty cycle with amplitude X vs a constant current with amplitude X/2 the losses in the internal resistance are the double causing the battery to heat more.
    That is far from an accurate analysis because the "internal resistance" of a battery does not behave exactly like a resistor in this context (look at a Nyquist plot to understand the full impedance spectrum).
    Last edited by Gauss163; 04-07-2016 at 04:05 PM.

  11. #131

    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    That is far from an accurate analysis because the "internal resistance" of a battery does not behave exactly like a resistor in this context (look at a Nyquist plot to understand the full impedance spectrum).
    For sure it's not only a resistance, but for the resistive part my assumption is true. Indeed I don't know how much the resistive losses are dominant in total losses.

  12. #132
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    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Quote Originally Posted by kappa7 View Post
    For sure it's not only a resistance, but for the resistive part my assumption is true. Indeed I don't know how much the resistive losses are dominant in total losses.
    It seems that you are attempting to transfer the simple constant current analyses to the case of pulsed current. But this is not valid (for various reasons). For example, some components of the cell's internal resistance are non-Ohmic (i.e. not governed by the linear relation of Ohm's law) so one needs to do a careful analysis of how these components behave under pulsing, e.g. how the frequency of the pulse interacts with the time constants of various internal processes, etc. Decreases there may offset increases in the purely Ohmic components. Not to mention the effects of relaxation.

    Such analyses are so complex that there are even contradictory results in the research literature. Some have found advantages of pulsed charging and some have found disadvantages, not always consistently. A proper analysis may be so context-dependent that it may be difficult to make any general claims about one method being superior. But that is no shortage of opinions on such matters. But such opinions are usually not grounded in science.
    Last edited by Gauss163; 04-08-2016 at 02:09 PM.

  13. #133

    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    I understand that the chemical reactions can be very complicated. Do you know any test on common chemistry where the charging efficiency between constant and pulsed have been compared?

  14. #134
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    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Alas, I am not aware of any studies that would immediately transfer to this context.

  15. #135

    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Jun Li and others. The effects of pulse charging on cycling characteristics of commercial lithium-ion batteries. Journal of Power Sources. December 2001.
    The results show that pulse charging is helpful in eliminating concentration polarization, increasing the power transfer rate, and lowering charge time by removing the need for constant voltage charging in the conventional protocol. Pulse charging interrupts dc charging with short relaxation periods and short discharge pulses during charging, and also improves the active material utilization giving the battery higher discharge capacity and longer cycle life. Impedance measurements show that the magnitude of the interfacial resistance of the batteries cycled both by pulse charging and dc charging is small.

  16. #136
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    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    I posted links to that and others studies last year (e.g. here). But much work remains to be done to better understand these matters. Experts often remark that many aspects of Li-ion batteries are still not well understood.
    Last edited by Gauss163; 04-12-2016 at 12:27 PM.

  17. #137
    Flashaholic tjh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Should be noted that the first 3-4 issues pointed out in the review have been fixed by version 1.11 of the firmware, which end users can download and apply themselves.

  18. #138

    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    They may not be faults, but issues:

    1) Not all cells make contact when placed at the bottom of the slots.
    Have you installed the 1.11 firmware on all of your units ?
    And through which Windows OS did you install it ?

    How do you like the screensaver ?

  19. #139
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    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    Have you installed the 1.11 firmware on all of your units ?
    No, the chargers works and does what I need.
    When I have some spare time I may do it, but I hate reprogramming the chargers.
    My website with battery, charger, usb reviews, comparisons & information: https://lygte-info.dk/
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  20. #140

    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    oh ok
    hmm

  21. #141

    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Fantastic review!

    I have a few questions though - seems like this charger doesn't have even basic protection - reverse polarity, short circuits, etc:

    http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route...ownload_id=149


    (page 20)

    Does the charger have built-in protection against reverse polarity, short circuitry,overheat, overvoltage, overload, stupidity, ignorance, explorativity?
    - Do not misuse, abuse, or mess around. The device was built for proper responsible usage.

    Also page 19 with the error messages suggests the same.

    Can you guys confirm? It seems to me impossible to overlook important things like this in such a sophisticated charger.

    I currently own a MH-C9000 and have the stupidity to put batteries the other way around every once in a while. When this happens slot menu selection doesn't pop up at all and I feel well protected from my own stupidity Losing this + the super intuitive and simple operation menu of the Maha + still the extremely scarce reliable EU 18650 protected battery market keeps me away from what seems to be the better headlamps.

  22. #142

    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrave View Post
    - seems like this charger
    - seems like you have misread the manual

    anyway thanks for reading the manual. only few ppl nowadays read manuals, especially when it consists of many pages. the maha manual is just 1 sheet of folded paper.

    Zebralight and Armytek have some decent headlamps. One does not need 18650's in headlamps. A 18650 weighs 50g already, crazy.
    Last edited by kreisl; 10-13-2016 at 04:26 PM.

  23. #143

    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    - seems like you have misread the manual

    anyway thanks for reading the manual. only few ppl nowadays read manuals, especially when it consists of many pages. the maha manual is just 1 sheet of folded paper.

    Zebralight and Armytek have some decent headlamps. One does not need 18650's in headlamps. A 18650 weighs 50g already, crazy.
    You think? The answer provided inside makes me think it has none of the listed protections

    Maha's manual is not that bad - it's whole 4 pages:

    http://www.mahaenergy.com/content/manual_mhc9000.pdf

    But then it's a much simpler charger with far less fine tuning you can make. It's severely discounted nowadays which makes me think Maha will come up something similar to the MC3000 soon. All in all the Maha is a great charger. The only complaint I have about it is that buttons seem to start failing (or more likely the circuitry behind them) after about 2-3 years of use - need to press them multiple times in order to do a selection.

    I do own a Zebralight H52w which I've never used. My 8GBP XM-L T6 chinese knock-off 4xAA blows the pants out of it (so a 50G battery won't put me off). Seriously, the Zebra looks like a matchstick compared to the chinese one at 1/5 the cost. The problem with the chinese crap is poor soldering - every once in a while a cable gets away from the board and I need to re-solder it (hopefully to the right place ). Battery runtimes I'm not going to compare to modern flashlights as it's quite obvious they'll do much better. But still, with so many good AA Eneloop Pros sitting at home seems like a serious investment to migrate to another format for a questionable benefit. See what NKON have written about the Wizard v3 Pro on which I had my eyes set:

    https://eu.nkon.nl/armytek-wizard-pro-v3-xhp50-led.html

    I'm clarifying with them whether this is written before or after the latest manual from Armytek (which the bastards haven't intentionally put on their website) for which a link is provided on this webpage.

  24. #144

    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrave View Post
    makes me think
    hehe

    ( btw page m01 mentions numerous safety mechanisms to protect user, device, and batteries from harm, so there you have it )

  25. #145

    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    hehe

    ( btw page m01 mentions numerous safety mechanisms to protect user, device, and batteries from harm, so there you have it )
    The safety mechanisms they refer to are capacity, voltage, time, and temperature cut-offs. There are numerous other stupid things you can do to damage both the charger and the batteries

  26. #146

    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    funny conversation

  27. #147
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    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    funny conversation
    The funny part is why you would start talking about zebralight and claim one does not need 18650 headlamps... that's your opinion but obviously based on how many they sell not everyone's. So it seem obvious some people do as great as their very small early models were. But the funny part really is why you bring it up as well and why you think it's funny since the manual for this charger does not give the impression you have a good sense of humor.

  28. #148

    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    StandardBattery i don't get you. this is too deep. or too heavy. or how does one say in English.

    goonite

  29. #149

    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    HKJ, this review is worth money! Thank you so much for sharing this professional documentation!

  30. #150
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    Default Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000

    My MC3000 arrived yesterday, my first thought was: "wow, this is a beefy sized charger".
    I've charged some Eneloops and a few different Li-Ion cells and it really does seem like a nice piece of equipment.

    I've only created about 4 programs so far, but I've decided that I definitely need to be a bit organised about what settings I use in which programs to make things easy to remember.
    I'm going to use the first ones for Li-Ion, so far #01 is Li-Ion 1A charging, #02 is Li-ion 2A charging. I might go with $03 = 0.3A charging (good for 14500 & 16340 cells).
    I've set #30 to LiFePO4 1A charging and #29 to Eneloop 1A charging.
    I might make 11-20 the discharging programs.
    So I'll end up with 01-10 Li-Ion charging, 11-20 discharging, 21-30 other chemistry charging.
    If I make it logical then I wont need to think too hard when choosing a program.
    01, 02, 30 & 29 are all pretty quick to choose as they are all next to each other (30 is only down 1 from 01).

    I also have 2 hobby chargers and a Xtar VC4 so I'm pretty well set up for charging.
    My biggest light uses 8 x 18650 IMR cells(10-15 minutes run time on max output) which take a bit to charge, but the MC3000 can charge half of those at one time with a separate independent channel for each cell. If I use a hobby charger I can also charge 4 at once or even 8 on my iCharger 208B, but not fully independently - I'd have to charge in parallel or in series with balancing leads.
    So many lights, so little money (cause I spent it on lights). I'm not afraid of the dark, the dark is afraid of ME!

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