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Thread: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

  1. #1

    Default Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    My main question becomes..

    Will we see a high quality laser based aftermarket driving light come down the pipe. It must be nearly inevitable at this point. If so will the system used be standardized or will it be like leds where everyone does something different..

  2. #2

    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    Probably not for awhile (multiple years) and probably not for anything like a price point that's within reach of most drivers. If/when it does eventually happen, it'll probably be a unitized system without a replaceable light source.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    I imagine we will see the aftermarket flood with garbage first here in the coming years.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    That won't surprise me in the slightest!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    SoraaLaser has some 7mm x 7mm laser modules that might find their way into aux lamps. But it won't be cheap.

    http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles...-lighting.html

    ...We at SoraaLaser have developed a white light module using a reflective approach in which the diode laser pumps a small phosphor chip, which emits up to 500 lm of white light from a 300-μm spot……. Laser-based white light sources have very high luminance values (1000 cd/mm2) relative to LEDs, so hundreds of lumens can be emitted within a small beam angle (1–2°), allowing for a high degree of optical control using very small optical elements...
    A more in depth article:
    http://www.archlighting.com/technolo...laser-diodes_o
    Last edited by SubLGT; 12-10-2017 at 02:07 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    Quote Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
    SoraaLaser has some 7mm x 7mm laser modules that might find their way into aux lamps. But it won't be cheap.

    http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles...-lighting.html



    A more in depth article:
    http://www.archlighting.com/technolo...laser-diodes_o
    That is the technique BMW used. They went reflective as it was the only way they could dissipate the heat. Lumens is not too far off BMW.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    BajaDesigns annouced a laser based driving lamp.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    A Google search did not return any details about the Baja Designs lamp. Do you have a link?

    PIAA has a laser lamp in the works:
    http://www.piaa.com/laser-light.aspx

    ...Designed by PIAA with the laser technology provided by Sharp Corporation, we plan to bring the first ever Laser Light to the aftermarket world of accessory lighting….The PIAA Laser light has an array of eight laser diodes that produce a ultra-sharp, long range beam. Using our industry first Reflector Facing Technology, the laser diodes are aimed at a multi-surface reflector, then color filtered through a phosphor plate and finally passed through a micro-domed projector to produce a near perfect pencil beam pattern. Availability and pricing are not yet determined.

  9. #9
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    Quote Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
    PIAA has a laser lamp in the works:
    And, like the rest of their products, won't be worth a nickel, plug or otherwise.
    Last edited by Alaric Darconville; 12-18-2017 at 10:21 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    Baja Designs annoucement here

    Had too look up sema dates and then backtrack through their fb timeline too find it.
    And, like the rest of their products, won't be worth a nickel, plug or otherwise.
    I wont be so quick too judge. If they are bringing in a 3rd part company to help them engineer it then i will wait for objective test results too come in. At this point in time it will take quite a bit of engineering too put a laser based driving light on the market. I dislike piaa as much as everyone else around here. But i wont jump on the hate train until the product is actually fully announced and those more knowledable then i are able too look at it...

  11. #11

    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    http://www.off-road.com/blog/2016/12...er-technology/

    That article states that the PIAA laser module will produce 1million candela. We'll see.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    LOL, as they say. I wonder if that's the same "million candlepower" claim that's been pasted all over every $19.95 handheld flashlight or pair of "driving lights" at Wal-Mart for the last thirty years.

    Sadden, you're right that we can't judge a product that doesn't exist, but Alaric's also right: PIAA has a long and basically unbroken history of their bark being a lot louder than their bite (a bunch of fancy hype and handwaving...not much substance, performance, or legitimacy to the actual products).

  13. #13
    Flashaholic* Hilldweller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?


  14. #14

    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    Good to see Morimoto looking to become a tier 1 supplier. Would have to see actual beam specs but that wall shot looks promising

  15. #15
    Flashaholic* Hilldweller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magio View Post
    Good to see Morimoto looking to become a tier 1 supplier. Would have to see actual beam specs but that wall shot looks promising
    Having the words legitimate and Morimoto in the same sentence hurts Hilldweller's head.

  16. #16
    Moderator Alaric Darconville's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magio View Post
    Good to see Morimoto looking to become a tier 1 supplier.
    If they really are going to become one:
    They are showcasing this disruptive technology at DVN to highlight their ability to think outside the box and begin making a name for themselves as a Tier 1 supplier.
    A Tier 1 to who? Notice they don't say what automaker they're working with. To begin making a name for themselves as a Tier 1 supplier, they need to BE a Tier 1 supplier.

    Thinking "outside the box" typically means "making outlandishly hyped, underperforming junk that complies with no standards whatsoever".

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
    Having the words legitimate and Morimoto in the same sentence hurts Hilldweller's head.
    Won't last long.
    Last edited by Alaric Darconville; 12-19-2017 at 05:27 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magio View Post
    Good to see Morimoto looking to become a tier 1 supplier.
    OK, first of all, there is no such company as "Morimoto". That's a brand name, not a company. Second of all...says who? I mean on both parts of this: Aside from themselves who says they're going to become a Tier-1 supplier? That takes a huge amount of investment and capabilities and process documentation/control I seriously doubt if TheRetrofitSource has even begun to think about. And aside from themselves (and you), who says it would be a good thing for them to be a Tier-1 supplier? And why, what makes you say so? Would it be good to see Nabisco looking to become a lighting Tier-1, too? How about Wrigley's? Trojan? Marlboro? Budweiser?

    Would have to see actual beam specs but that wall shot looks promising
    Not really. Just about any light source crammed into a projector will produce a wall shot like this very easily with any camera.

    Don't get me wrong; the idea is interesting on its own and holds promise, if they can develop it to the point where it really works (for a complete and legitimate definition of "works"). And I think it is a very good thing that they were able to show themselves at the DVN conference and get some exposure and "face time" with the legitimate players in the automotive lighting field; it shows commitment to straightening up and flying right after years of getting rich by endangering road safety with fraudulent and dangerous trinkets. But it is wayyyyyyyy too early to be applauding them. Wait and see what, if anything comes of this.

    I think they're seriously mistaken to think any auto maker or headlamp maker has been dreaming of a product like this for OE usage. If that was the case, it would already exist. LED and Laser-based vehicle lights are just not evolving in this direction. For the aftermarket, yes, maybe this kind of architecture has some promise.

    Also let's not forget the extremely stringent mandatory safety measures required for lasers used in any application that could even conceivably result in human exposure to laser radiation. Given TRS' track record of complete, laughing disregard for the safety aspects of vehicle lighting (even perverting the concept by claiming their products increase safety), what is there to make me think they're suddenly going to be all concerned with safety measures that would add cost and complexity, when they can just go sell OMG WAY COOL LASER HEADLIGHT BULBS!!!! to clueless kids in the aftermarket?

    I would love to be wrong and have to eat my words, but for now I think the weight of evidence justifies me being skeptical.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* Hilldweller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    The gorilla in the room with that laser bulb is that they want it to fit into the jiggered retrofitted lamps that they've already sold, not just into legitimate lamps on cars equipped with OE HIDs.

    I shared the info with a MOPAR dude this morning. He said "hmmmmmmm....."

  19. #19

    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    Are they planning on releasing these laser retrofits for halogen bases or well or just for hid based systems?

    Maybe one day there will be a legitimate laser rebased replacement bulb. But im not holding my breath. Because even if there is i dount it will be produced by TRS.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
    They should change the name of the website to "moredangerousautomotivelighting.com" . They went gaga over a "Supernova" LED bulb that produced a 50% brighter low beam hotspot in the halogen reflector headlights, compared to OEM LED low beams. No mention was made of 50% more glare.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    And aside from themselves (and you), who says it would be a good thing for them to be a Tier-1 supplier? And why, what makes you say so? Would it be good to see Nabisco looking to become a lighting Tier-1, too? How about Wrigley's? Trojan? Marlboro? Budweiser?
    Why would it be a bad thing? If, after becoming a Tier 1 supplier, any of the companies you mentioned are supplying quality compliant products then I don't see how that could hurt anything. I most certainly see ways it could help.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    Not really. Just about any light source crammed into a projector will produce a wall shot like this very easily with any camera.
    Im sorry thats not true at all. Go look at some of the beam shots of LED bulbs and even low quality Chinese HID bulbs crammed in HID projectors that many people are posting on other forums. Most of them that I have seen do not have a beam no where near as good that shot that they show in that link. 99% of the pics I have seen have a bright hotspot right in the lowest portion of the beam, that would translate into intense foreground, and no light in the center portion of the beam right under the cutoff kink that would translate into the beam thrown farthest down the road. Of course you can not tell when a beam is compliant by looking at a wall shot, but you can tell, in many cases, when it is not compliant.

    I have bought from TRS multiple times in the past but I tend to shy away from them now because pretty much everything they sell is very low quality as everyone here knows. That does not mean they will never and can never produce anything good though and I for one am glad to see any signs that they are moving in that direction.
    Last edited by Magio; 12-19-2017 at 07:24 PM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magio View Post
    Why would it be a bad thing?
    Staying true to years of voicemail tradition, let's answer the questions in the order in which they were received. :-)

    If, after becoming a Tier 1 supplier, any of the companies you mentioned are supplying quality compliant products then I don't see how that could hurt anything.
    OK, you didn't understand the analogy, sorry: there is a huge gap, many miles wide, between what Tier-1 suppliers make and how they make it, and what companies like TRS make and how they make it.

    Im sorry thats not true at all.
    Yes, it really is, even if you don't understand why.

    Go look at some of the beam shots
    No. Why? Beam shots are useless. No matter how well-intentioned the photographer is, it is very easy (with or without trying) to make the shot look completely unrepresentative of reality. At the same time, it is impossible to make the shot representative of reality, for reasons having to do with what is called "dynamic range". Reasonably decent explanation here. And that's without even getting into the basic problems of credibility involved with standing up for "beam shots" taken on a living room wall, on a garage door with a big honkin' streetlight above it, through a windshield at some random wall, etc.

    you can not tell when a beam is compliant by looking at a wall shot, but you can tell, in many cases, when it is not compliant.
    That is true, but it's not a fine enough granularity to support your statement that the TRS beam shot is promising.

    I have bought from TRS multiple times in the past but I tend to shy away from them now because pretty much everything they sell is very low quality as everyone here knows. That does not mean they will never and can never produce anything good
    Also true, but most companies don't crawl out of the sewer and immediately come out with a high quality, effective, safe, breakthrough product nobody else has ever made before. They climb the stairs one step at a time

    am glad to see any signs that they are moving in that direction.
    Well, we'll have to wait and see. So far we have signs that they're talking about that direction.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magio View Post
    http://www.off-road.com/blog/2016/12...er-technology/

    That article states that the PIAA laser module will produce 1million candela. We'll see.
    Hitting 1 million candela with a laser pumped phosphor spot is not a big technical hurdle.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    The thing that defines "Tier-1" has little to do with technology or tech capabilities but is a matter of size, portfolio, customer base, and who you make your sale to. Even if they sold $100 million into the OEM market, that would not make them a tier-1. At $1billion and selling directly to the vehicle MFRs, maybe we start talking.

    On a tech basis, it is interesting. I do have to wonder how they have effectively (if they have) managed the heat generated in the phosphor. The reason why the BMW (and other) systems is reflective, not pass-through, is they needed to put the phosphor on an aluminum plate to get rid of the heat. Given you need a high spot intensity for a "pencil" beam, this probably does not go away with their system. It may be most effective a low/high beams, but I have to expect it can't begin to compete with LEDs on pricing.

  25. #25

    Default Will there be laser aux driving lamps?

    A lot of development went into the i8 laser lights, including delayed activation until above 39 MPH says the BMW shop foreman that lives near us. A somewhat older article, but I’m almost hoping, for the sake of my eyeballs and all the rest of humanity’s, that the aftermarket is not successful in producing these laser aux driving lights!

    https://autotechreview.com/media/att..._ATR_May15.pdf
    Last edited by jzchen; 12-26-2017 at 06:24 PM.

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