ZebraLight's new 12-volt models require an **Unprotected Battery**

Some CPF members and moderators have suggested that battery talk is beginning to go in circles on the regular threads for the new SC600 Mk. III and SC63. I started this thread so the conversation can continue.

Please keep the discussion here focused on battery issues. As far as it relates to ZebraLight's battery requirements, discussion of the new driver and "pogo" pins, as well as flashlight size, are also fair game.

What do you think? Will the requirement for an unprotected battery keep you from buying one of the new ZebraLights?

First and foremost, I see the new 12-volt driver as the motivating factor. According to reports, it will be pulling between 4 and 5 amps, with the highest draws occurring as the battery gets low. A change to unprotected, medium-draw batteries, such as the Sanyo NCR18560GA or the Samsung 30Q, assures that there won't be a problem supplying current.

The pogo pins have reduced electrical resistance compared to a spring. This means less voltage is wasted pushing current through the springs, and more voltage is available for the driver. That's what the designers wanted, more voltage for the driver.

Note that pogo pins cannot be compressed as much as a spring. Switching to them means that battery size must be more uniform. Unprotected batteries provide this uniformity. Thus we have a second factor motivating a change to unprotected batteries.

Now consider the protection circuits themselves. I am not an expert, but my understanding is that they consume perhaps as much as a tenth of a volt. That's not much, but any voltage not used running protection circuits in the battery can be made available to the driver. Since ZL was planning to build protection circuits into the driver, including them on the battery is, at some level, redundant. This is a third motivation suggesting a switch to unprotected batteries.

Once designers understood that these changes would be better for the driver, then they realized the flashlight size could also be made smaller.

All of this is pure speculation on my part, but I think it makes more sense than the alternative. Tossing out protected batteries has cost ZebraLight sales. All you have to do is read the ZebraLight threads here at CPF to see that that is true. Many previous customers have stated flatly that they won't be coming back to buy the new models. It does not make sense that ZebraLight would alienate these customers just to save a few millimeters in size.

If reducing flashlight size were the foremost motivation for the changes, I think ZebraLight would have found a way to allow protected batteries. If, on the other hand, driver design were already leading ZL in the direction of unprotected batteries and pogo pins, then the changes become more understandable.

This post was adapted from my previous post here.

nope. I pre ordered the SC63. Unprotected no issue for me.

Do the pogo pins further reduce shock absorption?
Is it likely that future increase in cell capacity means longer cells?
Will the pogo pins lose their compression quickly?
Can the pogo pins get caught by the any part of the negative end of the cell/wrapper?
Will high current draw significantly reduce cell life?

Not a problem for me. I ordered the XPH35 HI Pre-Order.

BTW - I think people are incorrectly calling this a 12V driver. Does anyone actually have solid proof that this driver is boosting to 12 volts? The XHP can be wired as either 6V or 12V. I would suspect that Zebralight is wiring it as a 6V and only boosting that much. Boosting for 3.7v to 6v would be more efficient than boosting all the way up to 12v.

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:

Not a problem for me. I ordered the XPH35 HI Pre-Order.

BTW - I think people are incorrectly calling this a 12V driver. Does anyone actually have solid proof that this driver is boosting to 12 volts? The XHP can be wired as either 6V or 12V. I would suspect that Zebralight is wiring it as a 6V and only boosting that much. Boosting for 3.7v to 6v would be more efficient than boosting all the way up to 12v.

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Found no reference to 6V in cree datasheet for the XHP35.

I stand corrected - my wrong. I was thinking the XHP50 which is a quad-die and has the dual-config option.

I am tired of beginners here with their big words and attention catching titles beating down on ZL. It happens a lot and after all this years I don't think is at random, by now I think is purposely done. Internet supposed to be a good think but some people use it for malicious intent. ZL is a good company making a great product. If it would be up to me I would delete this thread.

I enjoy the change. It opens up possibilities to Cree's higher voltage LEDs, which means more options for us.

All I have read has shown that the XPH35 does need 12 volts.

There has been some confusing comments made about the four 'pogo pins' reducing and some have written increase resistance, Has any one been able to find a definitive answer to this issue?

If it does become an issue, it seems Zebralight could remedy the problem with a new tail cap design.

As for the battery issue I am quite comfortable using flat-top 18650 standard batteries at the length of 65mm. In fact I am now using matched pairs of these same batteries in my two Fenix TK35UE both '14 and '15 versions because changing the protected batteries in these two Fenix lights was rather difficult before switching to the flat-tom 65mm batteries.

Another advantage is the use of 18650 batteries that with the proper charger can use the 4.35 volt batteries at the same 65mm length.

Thank you too KeepinItLight for stating this thread. :thumbsup:

Deleting this thread is not in the spirit of open communication, seems like.

The NiteCore extended battery pack for the TM series uses pogo pins, or something very similar. It works well in that application. If the pogo pins are a significant issue with ZL, you can bet it will disappear with the next iteration, but really it will probably evolve instead.

My NiteCore 2014 P12 will not accept button top batteries because of the plastic disc surrounding the positive terminal (actually I removed the disc but you see numerous flashlights that restrict button tops for physical reverse polarity protection)

My Oveready/Moddoolar bodies are quite limited regarding battery diameter, many protected 18650's will not work.

Just got an EagTac M25C2 Turbo that the kind folks at EagleTac made for me, installing an XP-L Hi 5000K (gorgeous tint, stupendous throw and satisfactory spill) and it will not accept a protected 3500 mAh Orbtronic; length apparently being the limitation.

Money (and flashlight orders) talk, incessant complaining from a minority is an artifact of the internet.

KITROBASKIN said:

Money (and flashlight orders) talk, incessant complaining from a minority is an artifact of the internet.

Click to expand...

There's almost no alternative to just "letting the market decide," but it's unfortunate that consumers are often not rational, and certain things don't become as good as they can be, and certain things that shouldn't be continue to be.

Having been vaping for well over a year now I have become more and more comfortable with unprotected cells. They are completely safe. If you use them in a well designed light and charge them with a good charger there should be no problem. If you do stupid things, well - you'll have stupid problems.

For those who aren't comfortable with the 18650 lights there are plenty of AA lights still available that will fit needs.

marinemaster said:

I am tired of beginners here with their big words and attention catching titles beating down on ZL. It happens a lot and after all this years I don't think is at random, by now I think is purposely done. Internet supposed to be a good think but some people use it for malicious intent. ZL is a good company making a great product. If it would be up to me I would delete this thread.

Click to expand...

I am sorry to hear that. My intention in choosing the title and content of the first post was to be as neutral as possible. I wanted to create a space where opinions on both sides could be expressed. For you, at least, I failed that goal.

As it happens, I am a supporter of the new designs. As I explain in the second post above, I believe they were motivated by the needs of the new driver. If I am wrong about that, and it turns out the change to an unprotected battery was motivated solely by a desire to reduce flashlight size, then I would be less enthusiastic. But I would still be a buyer. For my money (which is probably not worth very much in flashlight circles), ZebraLight has the some of the best engineering in the business.

I am waiting to make my purchase, however, until the new high-CRI "d" models are released.

KITROBASKIN said:

Deleting this thread is not in the spirit of open communication, seems like.

Click to expand...

I am in agreement with your comment.

If someone does not agree with a comment or feels the language does not suit their individual taste then just skip the comment or thread. :wave:

There is no need to delete nor even moderate this thread so long as opinions are expressed respectfully. Remember, attack the POST not the POSTER and the conversation can continue. Enjoy!

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:

Having been vaping for well over a year now I have become more and more comfortable with unprotected cells. They are completely safe. If you use them in a well designed light and charge them with a good charger there should be no problem. If you do stupid things, well - you'll have stupid problems.

For those who aren't comfortable with the 18650 lights there are plenty of AA lights still available that will fit needs.

Click to expand...

Says the guy that has been inhaling a nicotine/propylene glycol mix for well over a year

Sorry, couldnt resist.

Tell that to the families of those that were on flight MH370.

They are relatively safe. Lets not downplay the risks associated with Lithium Ions of all types.

scs said:

Do the pogo pins further reduce shock absorption?
Is it likely that future increase in cell capacity means longer cells?
Will the pogo pins lose their compression quickly?
Can the pogo pins get caught by the any part of the negative end of the cell/wrapper?
Will high current draw significantly reduce cell life?

Click to expand...

The new 'pogo pins' do seem to ask a question of why; It seems unlikely the change was made for a reduction in vibration as these lights are not often used on long guns.

The newest cells are 65mm in length have 3500mAh, and up to 10 amps; I do not see a correlation between size, capacity, and amps.

The 'pogo pins' being designed for only 65mm batteries should have been engineered with this only factor. !8650 batteries are produced from 65mm to almost 70mm this would be a problem if the newest Zebralight tried to fit this entire range.

The 'pogo pins' seemed to be well centered; I always check the wrap of all my batteries and have the knowledge and supplies to re-wrap any battery wrap showing wear. The whole metal case of a lithium ion battery is the negative part of a battery.

The high current draw depends on the efficiency of the LED; Cree seems from my understanding has made advances in their new XPH35.

sidecross said:

The new 'pogo pins' do seem to ask a question of why; It seems unlikely the change was made for a reduction in vibration as these lights are not often used on long guns.

The newest cells are 65mm in length have 3500mAh, and up to 10 amps; I do not see a correlation between size, capacity, and amps.

The 'pogo pins' being designed for only 65mm batteries should have been engineered with this only factor. !8650 batteries are produced from 65mm to almost 70mm this would be a problem if the newest Zebralight tried to fit this entire range.

The 'pogo pins' seemed to be well centered; I always check the wrap of all my batteries and have the knowledge and supplies to re-wrap any battery wrap showing wear. The whole metal case of a lithium ion battery is the negative part of a battery.

The high current draw depends on the efficiency of the LED; Cree seems from my understanding has made advances in their new XPH35.

Click to expand...

Thanks, sidecross.
With regard to my first question, I mean whether the pogo pins would more likely induce cell damage from a drop, as opposed to having springs at at least one end or ideally at both ends.

scs said:

Thanks, sidecross.
With regard to my first question, I mean whether the pogo pins would more likely induce cell damage from a drop, as opposed to having springs at at least one end or ideally at both ends.

Click to expand...

I think that Zebralight had to worry only about 65mm batteries so to solve an engineering problem with spring compression on the battery should not be difficult. My concern would be on all the electronics that make this newer light function be designed for a two meter fall or drop.