My charger do not charge LiIon to 4.2V, is it faulty?

HKJ

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[SIZE=+3]My charger do not charge LiIon to 4.2V, is it faulty?[/SIZE]

DSC_3633.jpg


I see this question fairly often and most of the time the answer is: No, it works exactly as it is supposed to do.

Lets start with a typical battery datasheet:

Datasheet1.png


It says the charging voltage must be 4.20 volt, it do not say anything about the battery voltage. It do also say what the standard charge current is (This is the charge current to use if you want the specified number of cycles, higher current will usual reduce the cycle life).

Datasheet2.png


Further down in the datasheet there is a bit more explanation on how to do a standard charge. Cutoff means the current to stop charging at and C is the capacity of the cell, i.e. 0.02C is 0.02x3200 -> 64mA for this 3200mAh cell. I.e. when the charge current has dropped to 64mA, the charger must stop charging (Most chargers uses around 100mA as cutoff current, this means the cell with get slightly less filled and the charge will finish faster).
There is nothing about battery voltage in this, but the charger must supply the 64mA from 4.20 volt.

Efest%20IMR18650%202600mAh%20(Purple)%202016-Charge.png


Here is a real charge curve from one of my test stations. I have marked the constant current (CC) and constant voltage (CV). In the CV phase the charger will hold stable 4.20 volt and the current will drop until it is down to the cutoff value. I use the typical 100mA value.

Efest%20IMR18650%202600mAh%20(Purple)%202016%20A-charge-1.0-Zoom.png


Lets take a closer look on the voltage. The vertical yellow line indicates exactly where the charger stops charging.
As can be seen on the red voltage curve the voltage is 4.203 volt from the charger and the battery voltage is the same while charging in the CV phase. When the charger stops the voltage will drop immediately and continue to drop during the next hour. On this cell I measured 4.182 volt after one hour. Being a new cell in prime condition this is what can be expected, if the cell had been older or the charger had used a higher termination current the drop would have been larger.

Skilhunt%20M4D%201A%20(PA18650-31)%20%233.png


The curve above is sort of ideal, here is a curve from a real charger with a used battery. The CV phase is not as flat (Due to resistance in the charger) and the voltage drop is larger, some of it is because the cell is older.

Skilhunt%20M4D%201A%20(PA18650-31)%20%233-Zoom.png


Zooming in and the larger voltage drop is easy to see. This charger is charging with exactly 4.201 volt, but the battery will not measure more than 4.18 volt after the charger stops and after some minutes it will be 4.16 volt.
This is not a bad battery or nearly worn down battery, it is only about 10 months old.



[SIZE=+3]What if my battery is above 4.20 volt?[/SIZE]

If the battery after charging is 4.21 volt, does that mean the charger is defective?
Again the answer will often be no, there is some tolerances.

Datasheet3.png


In the first datasheet there was an omission, usual the charge voltage includes a tolerance. The typical tolerance is +/- 0.05 volt, but other values are sometimes used (+/-1% or +/-0.03 volt). This means it is usual possible to add or subtract 0.05 volt to the above values and it is still correct.

If the battery comes out of the charger with 4.25 volt the charge is overcharging the battery, not enough to be dangerous, but the cell will have shorter cycle life.
If the voltage is below 4.10 volt the battery is probably worn down or the charger has a very low charge voltage and/or high termination current.



[SIZE=+3]How do I check the charge voltage?[/SIZE]

This requires a voltmeter and some metal foil strips. It can also requires some patience, depending on the meter.

DSC_3631.jpg


I use copper foil, but aluminium foil from the kitchen can also be used. Be very careful if your use metal alligator clips like I do, the risk of shorts are fairly high and the result can be bad.

DSC_3627.jpg


When the charger is nearly finished it is time to turn on the meter and read the voltage. This has to be done at regular intervals, like each 5 minutes. The highest value is the charge voltage.

DSC_3629.jpg


My meter has a max function. Activate that and I can come back when the charger is finished and read the result.
Notes: The charger is not the same as from the curves above. A meter with peak capture cannot be used, it has to be maximum (Peak capture is very fast and will probably capture switching noise from the charger).

DSC_3630.jpg


Disabling max again and the voltage is lower, due to the voltage drop when the charge current terminates (Not that much lower, this is a new battery).

DSC_3632.jpg


It is also hopeless to measure later.

For the charger to be within specifications the charge voltage must be between 4.15 volt and 4.25 volt. Values below 4.15 volt will increase the lifetime of the battery and charge it to a lower capacity. Values above 4.25 volt will charge to a higher capacity and lower battery lifetime, getting much above 4.25 volt will also increase the danger.



[SIZE=+3]Notes[/SIZE]

Many cheap meter will show wrong voltage when the battery is about empty. If you charger suddenly overcharges or undercharges according to you meter, try replacing the battery in the meter.
 
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Milw light

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With my new Opus charger the battery winds up at about 4.15 volt after it sits a bit. If I pull the battery when the charger says 4.2 volt that is what the battery has on my Snap On DMM. Pulling the battery before the charger says full is not the proper way to charge though.
 
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HKJ

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With my new Opus charger the battery winds up at about 4.15 volt after it sits a bit. If I pull the battery when the charger says 4.2 volt that is what the battery has on my Snap On DMM.

Something is wrong. The charger will say 4.2 volt before the battery is full and if you pull the battery at that time the battery voltage will be lower. The maximum battery voltage is when the charger terminates.
 

Milw light

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Mine seems to bleed off some charge at the very end...the opposite of what you say. I am going to let the charger terminate to "full' so no worries. Thanks for all your reviews HJK.
 

HKJ

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Mine seems to bleed off some charge at the very end...the opposite of what you say. I am going to let the charger terminate to "full' so no worries. Thanks for all your reviews HJK.

From my review of C3100: "It will discharge LiIon batteries with up to 4.1mA when not charging.", i.e. if you wait some time after the charger is finished the voltage will drop, but the capacity lost is mostly insignificant (100mAh for 24 hours).
 

gyzmo2002

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With my opus, just after the full charge, it is written 4.20 on the lcd but when I measure the cell with my Fluke, I have always 4.21-4.22v. I think my charger charge to 4.22. Why it does not display 4.22 on the lcd?
 
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HKJ

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With my opus, just after the full charge, it is written 4.20 on the lcd but when I measure the cell with my Fluke, I have always 4.21-4.22v. I think my charger charge to 4.22. It could be written 4.22 on the lcd.

The meter and the charge circuit probably share a reference. Any deviation in that reference cannot be seen by the charger, it will still believe the voltage is exactly 4.20 volt.
 

gyzmo2002

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The meter and the charge circuit probably share a reference. Any deviation in that reference cannot be seen by the charger, it will still believe the voltage is exactly 4.20 volt.

I just tried a one week charged cell. 4.18v with the Fluke and 4.16 on the Opus. My Opus always read 0.02v less than the correct voltage.

Many Opus charges to 4.22. Do you think it coud be that can influence the capacity measured because mine and many others, measures higher capacity than the cell specs? And the ones who charge to 4.20, have the correct capacity measurement?

Edit: I have the v2.2.
 
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HKJ

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I just tried a one week charged cell. 4.18v with the Fluke and 4.16 on the Opus. My Opus always read 0.02v less than the correct voltage.

Many Opus charges to 4.22. Do you think it coud be that can influence the capacity measured because mine and many others, measures higher capacity than the cell specs? And the ones who charge to 4.20, have the correct capacity measurement?

Edit: I have the v2.2.


In one test I did 0.05 volt was 5% capacity.
There are some other parts involved in measuring capacity, it is more likely tolerances on them.
 

gyzmo2002

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In one test I did 0.05 volt was 5% capacity.
There are some other parts involved in measuring capacity, it is more likely tolerances on them.

I saw only a few 2.2 that were accurate in the capacity measurement. This "issue" should have been corrected in v2.2 but I doubt. As you said, that is probably cause by tolerances parts. Do you know the termination of this charger? 30ma? I know this question is a bit out of subject and this is my last. Thank you.
 

recDNA

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I was going to buy an xtar vc4 just to get the mAh however if the opus is wrong I see no reason to think the xtar is accurate. That is good to know
 

ChrisGarrett

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I was going to buy an xtar vc4 just to get the mAh however if the opus is wrong I see no reason to think the xtar is accurate. That is good to know

I've had my VC4 show some higher numbers after I've discharged some NiMH down on my Maha, although things generally 'seem normal.'

After playing with my BT-3400 for a month, I've come to the conclusion that it probably reads a bit high, to the tune of about 5% in my observations. Either that, or my 4+ year old batteries and cells aren't showing signs of aging.

My LaCrosse BC-700 reads about 10% higher than my C9000, or the Maha reads 10% lower than my LC. Depends on which way you look at the grass, right?

For me, it is what it is and I'm not looking to know the exact capacity of a battery/cell at all given times. It's like anal-izing over a quad of Eneloops that aren't showing exactly the same numbers all of the time.

I want to be in the ballpark, preferably the lower deck field box, but I don't have to be in the front row.

Both the VC4 and the Opus BT-3xxx are good, safe chargers that have different places in my charging repertoire...that they aren't perfect is not really a concern to me.

Chris
 

CuriousOne

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This is great post as usual, but also as usual - complaint from me. If this is all OK, why same cell charged to 4.2 volts, instead of 4.1 volts, gives higher mAh, when being discharged?
 

Joe Kidd

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I saw only a few 2.2 that were accurate in the capacity measurement. This "issue" should have been corrected in v2.2 but I doubt. As you said, that is probably cause by tolerances parts. Do you know the termination of this charger? 30ma? I know this question is a bit out of subject and this is my last. Thank you.


My v2.2 finishes at 4.18v
measuring the cell pulled with my fluke 26 and fresh Sanyo's
 

gyzmo2002

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My v2.2 finishes at 4.18v
measuring the cell pulled with my fluke 26 and fresh Sanyo's

Not very accurate but the tolerance are 4.15-4.25...that's a good indication why the Opus is not very *"accurate" in measuring capacity. For $35.00, it is a very good choice instead.

*Accurate: It will measure near the same capacity if you try 2-3 test in a row, but the capacity measured, could be higher than the cell specs. You could have the chance to have an accurate unit too but the parts tolerance, as HKJsaid, is very large. It will probably the same with all low cost charger.

Nb: A ncr18650b should have a capacity between 3250-3350mah. If your Opus measures between this spec, you have an accurate unit in the capacity measurement. Mine is around 3500mah for a panny "b"and I have seen many units in the same range as mine but only a few in the range specs.

Have you ever try a charge test C>D>C on your Opus? It will be good to see your results if it charges to 4.18v.

@HKJ, if we are off topic, feel free to tell.
 

gyzmo2002

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About 4.18 volt:



For a new cell that is a very precise charge as you can see if you check my article.

I said not accurate not for the 4.18 but for the range that is very high.

The range between 4.15 and 4.25 is high in other words.

Wrong translation from me...
 
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