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Thread: IIHS test of headlamp performance

  1. #31
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Quote Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
    Does excellent headlight design really cost an automobile manufacturer that much more than mediocre design, that it becomes prohibitive?
    It shouldn't. It's about the Wall (Mart) Street mentality. Maximum profits for as little effort as possible. AKA, greed.

  2. #32

    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Perhaps the most astonishing thing from these test is that people's subjective impressions of vehicles headlights have been remarkably accurate, and also probably explains why HID kits and the like are so popular and why they wont be going away anytime soon. Its the OEM manufactures skimping on lifesaving equipment deliberately, in a large portion of the time, that's driving people to do unsafe things to their headlights in effort to improve them. There are some people who are just idiots out there, but, it is my opinion that most people that seek to modify their headlights to increase their ability to see at night have good reason to want to do so. If headlights were actually good, and provided great illumination the drive to modify headlights would drop substantially. OEM's can thank themselves for this problem.

    This quote from IIHS chief research officers sticks in my head.
    "If you're having trouble seeing behind the wheel at night, it could very well be your headlights and not your eyes that are to blame," says David Zuby, IIHS executive vice president and chief research officer.

  3. #33

    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Quote Originally Posted by Magio View Post
    Perhaps the most astonishing thing from these test is that people's subjective impressions of vehicles headlights have been remarkably accurate
    No, they really have not. That conclusion cannot realistically or reasonably be drawn from anything the IIHS has published about specific headlamp systems' performance.

    Its the OEM manufactures skimping on lifesaving equipment deliberately
    This also cannot reasonably or realistically be concluded from anything the IIHS has published.

    The results IIHS has been publishing are very educational, for sure, but the lessons they contain are not "Hey, yeah! Everyone who's been complaining is exactly right, all these headlights suck!".

    The best-backed conclusion by this data is that headlamp aim is extremely crucial to glare output and seeing distance from a set of headlamps, and a whole lot of headlamps are not optimally (or just plain badly) aimed. Please refer back to post #24 in this thread and the data analysis done by one of the USA's foremost vehicle headlighting researchers, John Bullough (read his analysis here).

    Once you understand that crucial context for these results, then you can accurately start to glean meaningful information about the inherent performance characteristics of whatever specific IIHS headlamp system test you want to look at. If you see a system that gets no glare demerits and gives short seeing distance under all conditions, that's probably a set of headlamps aimed too low. If you see a system that gets a bunch of glare demerits but has long seeing distance across the board, that's probably a set of headlamps aimed too high. If you see a system that gets no/few glare demerits and has seeing distance across the board that's neither way too short nor way too long, you're looking at a well-designed and well-aimed set of headlamps. Bunch of glare demerits and short seeing distance, now that's probably a poorly-designed set of headlamps.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Wonder what some pickup truck owners think of the IIHS tests, and lighting in general? Some of it will make your head spin.
    http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2016/10....html#comments

    Some excerpted comments:

    This test is so flawed. With equal lighting, cars will always out-illuminate the road better because the headlights are closer to the ground.

    What a bunch of crap, I have a 14 f150 with hid's. best lights ever. by a wide margin

    My led package silverado is so bright people have pulled over beeping on the side of a dark highway multiple times. I get flashed often. With the led fogs on its like daytime in front of the truck…...One of the most impressive things on the chevy to me is the led package look at night. Its menacing And very bright.

    I had a level kit in this truck. I took it out after a few months of torturing people on rural curvy highways….Maybe the projection is wrong like mentioned above? I'm not versed in optics.

    The other problem are the federal light regs themselves. They were written for incandescent bulbs and are thus rated in wattage only, and there are no regs of light color. As everyone knows, LEDs in particular use far less wattage to produce the same amount of lumens (correct measurement of light output) - thus a 55 watt LED would be street-legal, even though it would have 4 times the lumens of a halogen.

    All these new headlights are too damn bright, every night im blinded by so many cars and trucks.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    xxxxxx
    Last edited by SubLGT; 10-28-2016 at 10:28 PM. Reason: wrong thread

  6. #36
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Quote Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
    Some excerpted comments:
    Its menacing And very bright.
    *It's

    And it really shows the mindset of people like that. They want to use their lights to bully others, or to prove they are so incredibly manly or something. ,

    And the rest of those comments-- just too many for me to stomach picking it all apart. It's a good demonstration why designing lighting systems should be left to genuine experts.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    His infatuation with "menacing" headlights will eventually get him into a road rage incident.

  8. #38

    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Quote Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
    His infatuation with "menacing" headlights will eventually get him into a road rage incident.
    Ironically, his headlights seem to do a better job shedding light on his mindset than they do on the road. Go figure.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    It would be interesting to see the same test run, after each vehicle had had its headlights very carefully and professionally aimed.
    As is, heeding Virgil's observations on factory "aim" at installation and maybe again by the dealer, this test does not mean much. I think folks would like to know how good these lights are when they are properly aimed.
    There are two kinds of light - the glow that illumines, and the glare that obscures. ~James Thurber

  10. #40

    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    This test means a lot. 99.9% of drivers dont know you can aim lights. Unlike in the EU the US has no culture of correct aim. This test will force manufactures to either aim them correctly or develop better lamps, as next year cars cannot be a top safety pick plus without good lamps. As we all know that is a very important marketing point of auto manufactures, so the marketing department will get on the dealers A$$es.

  11. #41

    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton Felix View Post
    It would be interesting to see the same test run, after each vehicle had had its headlights very carefully and professionally aimed.
    Hit the link given in post #33 of this thread (on page 1).

    Quote Originally Posted by 64.5vette
    This test means a lot.
    No, it really doesn't. Not once you've seen the stackup of guesses, assumptions, and apparently random, pseudoscientific numbers that have gone into the test protocol.

    99.9% of drivers dont know you can aim lights.
    That might be true, and even if 99.9% of drivers did know headlamps can be aimed, most of them aren't near a shop that can or will do the job correctly (though there's no shortage of shops that will claim to do it).

    Unlike in the EU the US has no culture of correct aim.
    Very true.

    This test will force manufactures to either aim them correctly or develop better lamps
    Don't bet on it! You're being a lot more optimistic than realistic here.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Thanks. I followed the link.

    . Post hoc adjustment of the demerit scores to account for this effect would double the number of systems rated as good (demerit score ≤ 10) or acceptable (10 < demerit score ≤ 20).
    There are two kinds of light - the glow that illumines, and the glare that obscures. ~James Thurber

  13. #43
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Some very interesting comments from a Senior Research Engineer at IIHS, as published by DVN in their newsletter:

    ..."But as we've built up test experience, we've found enough vehicles have such vertical and/or horizontal misaim that FMVSS 108 limits don't correlate to real-world glare...….In some cases we see as much glare from the low beams as we see from the high beams…….. FMVSS 108 is not limiting real-world glare on a lot of vehicles. That was a surprise to us.
    Additionally, in response to technical criticisms from the vehicle lighting professional community, IIHS is making adjustments to their headlamp test protocol:
    http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/status...rticle/51/10/2
    Last edited by SubLGT; 12-08-2016 at 11:12 AM.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    IIHS has released their list of top safety rated 2017 vehicles.

    http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/deskto...light-criteria

    ….Good or acceptable ratings in the Institute's new headlight evaluations set the latest crop of qualifiers apart. Thirty-eight models earn the "plus" accolade, and 44 earn TOP SAFETY PICK...

    ...Among 2017 models, only seven are available with good-rated headlights. They are the Chevrolet Volt small car, Honda Ridgeline pickup, Hyundai Elantra small car, Hyundai Santa Fe midsize SUV, Subaru Legacy midsize car, Toyota Prius v midsize car and Volvo XC60 midsize luxury SUV...

    ...IIHS launched headlight ratings in the spring after finding that government standards based on laboratory tests allow for huge variation in the amount of illumination headlights provide in on-road driving. Nighttime visibility is critical to highway safety because about half of traffic deaths occur either in the dark or at dawn or dusk…

  15. #45

    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    my 2016 sonata rated poor, and i believe that, they really do suck.

  16. #46
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Some interesting info about how difficult it can be to maintain correct headlight aim during vehicle operation (from this weeks DVN newsletter)

    Hamm explained that a headlamp system's actual, real performance is a mixture of the lamp's inbuilt photometric performance and the effective lamp aim (including not only how the headlamp is set but also the factors listed [below] plus movement of the car body in response to road dynamics).

    • Factory aiming tolerance ± 0.1°
    • Visual aiming tolerance ± 0.25°
    • Load tolerance + 0.3° per 75 kg load
    • Fuel tank tolerance ± 0.1° per half tank
    • Temperature tolerance ± 0.15°
    • Tire pressure tolerance ± 0.1° per 0.7 bar (10 psi).
    There has been lot of activity from automakers in the area of "smart" autonomous vehicles. Before we make that giant leap, how about giving us some "smart" headlamps that maintain their aim during operation?

  17. #47

    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Quote Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
    There has been lot of activity from automakers in the area of "smart" autonomous vehicles. Before we make that giant leap, how about giving us some "smart" headlamps that maintain their aim during operation?
    It's not either/or or first/next. The smart headlamps you ask for already exist; they're called ADB (Adaptive Driving Beam) -- including matrix beams, pixel beams, etc. They're not yet allowed in the USA. Until recently it looked like they would be permitted soon, but that was under the previous administration. The current administration has a fervently anti-regulation agenda, and while I have read dozens of editorials and essays and white papers in the last few months joyously celebrating what they're sure will be a reduction of regulations that apply to the auto industry, I think they're forgetting that regulations don't necessarily prohibit things; they can also permit things. If the rule is "Federal agencies, we're gonna slash your budget, you're gonna slash your personnel, and don't even THINK about issuing any new regulations until further notice", then ADB won't be coming to roads in the United States for the foreseeable future.

  18. #48
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    This is not the proper venue for a discussion of forum rules, nor any open discussion of moderation.

    Time to move on, here....
    ... is the archimedes peak

  19. #49
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    ... they're called ADB (Adaptive Driving Beam) -- including matrix beams, pixel beams, etc. They're not yet allowed in the USA...
    Do the LED headlamps in the 2018 Lincoln Navigator deserve the ADB label?

    The all-new Navigator offers speed-dependent adaptive lighting, a new Lincoln technology that provides a wider spread of light at lower speeds for increased visibility – helpful when driving through residential areas. As the vehicle accelerates, the beam of light narrows to help eliminate the glare off signs or other distractions.
    https://media.lincoln.com/content/li...navigator.html

  20. #50

    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    No. ADB is not available (because it's not allowed) in the United States. "Adaptive headlights" are not even close to the same thing.

  21. #51

    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    So this thread started on 03-30-16, and just today (06-13-17) the IIHS report finally makes Fox News......?

  22. #52
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill, Idaho View Post
    So this thread started on 03-30-16, and just today (06-13-17) the IIHS report finally makes Fox News......?
    Maybe only now it looks like it'll drive clicks to their site. Remember, their primary goal is not to inform, but to make money.

  23. #53

    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaric Darconville View Post
    Remember, their primary goal is not to inform, but to make money.
    When journalist report on something we're knowledge about we laugh and shake our heads, yet flip/click to the next page and trust their other reports. Understanding this really helped me sift through poor quality news.

  24. #54
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    The latest test, of midsize SUVs:

    http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/deskto...rginal-or-poor

    ...The 37 SUVs that IIHS evaluated have 79 possible headlight combinations...More than half of the 79 headlight variants evaluated have too much glare. In 17 of those cases, the headlights would be rated poor based on glare alone….

    ...The Ford Edge is another poor performer. The Edge's base halogen projector and optional HID projector low beams provide inadequate visibility in all test scenarios, including the straightaway, on sharp curves and on gradual curves. The high beams on both versions have inadequate visibility, too. Both types of the Edge's low beams also produce unacceptable glare...

  25. #55

    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Notice the very strongly blue appearance of the oncoming lamps at 1 minute, 20 seconds in the video on that linked page. I can't discern what make and model vehicle it is at a glance.

    I'll need to spend some time parsing through the results to see what interesting nuggets they contain. At first blush it looks like the same situation as described in post #33 and #24 in this thread. Still, even though the IIHS tests don't really measure what the headlines say they measure, they still indicate a real problem, and the auto and lighting industries are putting a lot of effort into figuring out how to get better IIHS grades on their headlamps. Mostly through better aiming, which is good, because poor aim is most of the problem.

  26. #56
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    Notice the very strongly blue appearance of the oncoming lamps at 1 minute, 20 seconds in the video on that linked page. I can't discern what make and model vehicle it is at a glance.
    I can't make it out either. Perhaps it is the Lincoln MKC with HID projectors. On the straightaway, the low beams exceeded the glare threshold by 266%.

  27. #57

    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    Quote Originally Posted by -Virgil- View Post
    Notice the very strongly blue appearance of the oncoming lamps at 1 minute, 20 seconds in the video on that linked page. I can't discern what make and model vehicle it is at a glance.
    My educated guess is a Santa Fe sport (headlight), based on

    but to be fair, it seems like they either have the blue cranked way up or that shot is very poorly color balanced.

  28. #58
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    IIHS reports that the Hyundai Santa Fe Sport with halogen projector low beams exceeded the straightaway glare threshold by 100.6%. The version with HID projectors exceeded the straightaway glare threshold by a whopping 534.7%.

  29. #59
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    Default Re: IIHS test of headlamp performance

    http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/deskto...y-pick-winners

    The E-Class is available with two different [LED Projector] headlight systems. One earns a good rating, while the other is acceptable. The good-rated [LED Projector] headlights, which come on the E-300 trim when equipped with the Premium II or Premium III package, earn the highest score of any headlights IIHS has rated. The low beams provide enough light on the straightaway and all curves, though they create a bit of glare for oncoming drivers. The high beams provide fair visibility on the left side of the straightaway but good visibility everywhere else. The good-rated headlights also come with high-beam assist.
    http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/veh...oor-sedan/2017

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