A plea to US sellers on CPF

peter yetman

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This a plea on behalf of your overseas fellow flashaholics.
It would be really nice of you guys selling lights on CPF to consider shipping them outside of CONUS. I sent a light to Singapore the other week and it wasn't such a trial.
We don't have the access to US quality lights as you have, so it would really be a help if you'd consider sending them abroad.
We're already used to paying over the top for our lights, so are more likely to give you a good price, especially for hard to find stuff - which in reality is most stuff. If I buy a new light from the States, I always figure that I end up paying the equivalent amount of pounds as I've paid in dollars when import duties and shipping are taken into account. So a 100 dollat light will cost me 100 pounds or about 144 dollars. So you can see we are used to paying more.
Maybe someone could give me some feedback to help me understand why most sellers don't want to play with us.
Thanks for listening.
P
 

recDNA

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The customs forms and fear of lost items or a buyer who doesn't want to pay the customs fee scares me off. Sorry.
 

bykfixer

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Being a hoarder I cannot speak in sellers terms Pete. But have shipped an item or two overseas over the years.
I just went to the post office with the box and the clerk looked at the address, typed in some words while weighing the box, slapped a big ole label on it and said "that'll be $23.64 please".

Maybe other folks' post office isn't so easy to deal with. Maybe it's the lost in transit thing. It seems airlines have a very difficult time keeping up with luggage.

I dunno for certain why some businesses won't either. But saw it here there's a way to have it shipped to a US address and from there mail it to yourself. Brb...

Read post 28 here.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?414389-New-Mag-C-cell-incandescent-twisties-M25IT
 
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ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond

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I used to hate filling out the customs forms, but it never stopped me from international shipping. I've had one sent package (to Indonesia) apparently get lost and there was one package to me (from somewhere) that didn't make. But for the most part over 6+ years I haven't had a problem.

In the past two years I've been using the USPS website to fill out, purchase, and print labels onto sticky label sheets. When you do it online the whole customs form is electronic and takes only a minute to fill out. Slap the label on the package and drop it in a mailbox or the package drop at the PO and I'm off. I haven't had to visit a PO window in over two years.

For expensive items I do ask International buyers to pay for EMS shipping. Although it can be costly at least I have better tracking, faster shipping and I know that a $500 light isn't going to mishandled.

If you are really paranoid use Registered shipping where packages are handled separately and shipped by more secure means. That would be especially true in places like Italy where I have read package theft by the PO itself is very common.
 

Eidolon

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I haven't sold any on CPF but I've done international on other forums. It opens you up to false claims of lost items/PayPal disputes but to date I have simply trusted peoples integrity and I have not had a problem thus far.
 

Eric242

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To each his own. If one doesn´t want to ship Int´l then that´s the way it is.

BUT customs form is just an excuse. For the stuff we ship around here 99% of the time the customs form CN22 is good to go and anyone who can not fill out this form in 20 seconds needs to see a doctor. Check box for gift or merch, item(s), weight, value, date and signature, that´s it (done it hundreds of times now). Sure, there are exceptions when CN22 can not be used but they are rare. In all my time of doing int´l business through the internet I had to use other forms maybe 3-4 times since 1996 (man that´s 20 years already ;) ).

Like I said, to each his own. If one doesn´t want to it´s his/her business and ok.

Eric
 

Str8stroke

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I can appreciate the OPs point here.
This give me a idea. What if someone were to post a few step by step shipping techniques? From the US to various destinations. I know it may be a pain to type it all out, but someone in the know could probably serve some forum members well.

I appreciate those out of the CONUS that are willing to ship to the US. But, I can't fault those that say stuff like "EU Buyers only" and so on.

I have sold tons of stuff to in the US. However: I must admit, I too never ship world wide due to MY ignorance of various customs rules, fees & costs.
 

nfetterly

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Str8stroke & I seem to frequent the same threads.

I think I'll go back to shipping international - need to check out CN22. I used to, but I got away from it....

Although I'd be a little choosy as to who I would ship to, particularly looking at their number of posts...

Join Date Mar 2014
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Looks like I wouldn't be shipping to the OP :crackup:
Neale
 

m4a1usr

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I'm back to selling CERTAIN items OCONUS these days after a couple years of limiting my locations. I will only sell HIGH dollar items to known CPF'ers providing the buyer accepts the possible risks. I had to change my shipping strategy after several buyer issues but that was on the bay, not here. These days I just make sure that both of us communicate well as to not leave an avenue for failure. And sometimes a language barrier doesn't help. Communication is very important since I am simply astounded by the shipping costs! I can get a tube of Fujik for $6 USD to my door from China. It just cost me (customer actually) $55 in shipping costs alone for a 4lb box of flashlight parts to Germany! I sent my BIL a 2lb box of 18650 cells, a charger and a light. That son of a gun was $32! Probably for another 8 or 10 bux he could have bought all those goodies brand new from China. What a world we live in.

Most of the time I just don't want to fill out the declaration form. It's not bad as long as it's the short version. But anything over 4 lbs needs the long form and that sucker takes twice the amount of time. But I hear what the OP is saying. As long as the overseas buyer accepts the risks and is willing to pay rather high shipping costs I'm OK with shipping international.
 

bykfixer

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Str8stroke & I seem to frequent the same threads.

I think I'll go back to shipping international - need to check out CN22. I used to, but I got away from it....

Although I'd be a little choosy as to who I would ship to, particularly looking at their number of posts...

Join Date Mar 2014
Location North Norfolk UK
Posts 666

Looks like I wouldn't be shipping to the OP :crackup:
Neale

Ha, I hear ya.
 

Exeter354

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I generally won't ship overseas and it has nothing to do with filling out the little customs form or the time at the post office, etc. I have no problem with those things.

I generally don't do it because the reality is...insurance usually isn't available and once an item leaves US borders, it generally cannot be tracked and is in the hands of the applicable foreign postal service. Often there are customs delays and other issues, including damage and or theft. I have sat on pins and needles waiting for the item to arrive at it's destination, all the while exchanging emails of frustration and apologies. Why do I want to put myself through that? Is it really worth putting my reputation in jeopardy not to mention my Paypal account?

Now...there is one way I would be willing to ship overseas and I pose this question to the OP:

Would you be willing to either pay the huge cost for express shipping that can be insured/tracked? Or would you be willing to accept ALL risks such that if the item never showed up, you would not hold the seller accountable? Would you be willing to pay via PP friends & family which offers no buyer protection (provided of course that you were buying from a reputable seller)? If the answer is yes to these questions, then yes - I'd ship overseas. But it ain't happening unless the buyer assumes ALL risks. So ask yourself if you'd be ok with that before posing such plea. 99 percent of the time I have found that foreign buyers aren't willing to accept those terms. You want the item, but you also want the seller to take on the added risk of shipping something across the planet.
 

mattheww50

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I used to ship internationally almost for a living. So let me walk you through the steps and the pitfalls:
There are some countries I will not ship to, period, such as Italy. I even had a registered parcel go missing in Italy. Registered is no guaranty, it slows down the shipment, and filing a claim and getting paid can take a year.

The CN22 can only be used for low value shipments, and in general those weighing less than 4 pounds (1.8kg). It also cannot be used if the shipment requires or has a validated export license. Export licensing is something I am expert on, but that is subject matter that goes far beyond what this discussion can cover in a reasonable amount of time. If it weighs less than 4 pounds it can go as as a 1st class parcel. That is a double edged sword. You cannot insure 1st class parcels, and while it has tracking, that tracking ends where the parcel leaves the USA. That is something that the Post Office doesn't like to publicize. So for purposed of PayPal, it is NOT tracking because you will never confirmation it was delivered. The good news is that because it cannot be insured, the post office and Customs authorities rarely even look at the declaration, so the odds are that duty and taxes will not be charged. YMMV

If the shipment required or has a validated export license, my advice is use air freight, and live with the paperwork (shippers Letter of Instruction, Shippers Export Declaration etc). I suggest researching your export before you offer it for sale. You would be surprised at some of the things that require an export license. A few years ago I sold a 6 year old 100 Mhz Fluke Scope Meter to someone in India. Fortunately it turns out isn't really a 100Mhz scope. What is does is to take 4 samples, each slight offset at 25Mhz to create the illusion of 100Mhz. It turns out if it really was a 100Mhz device, it would have required a validated export license to India! Penalties for export law violations can be severe, and that is probably another reason many US based sellers are in no hurry to sell outside the USA.

If you exceed the permitted value for 1st class, you are going to need a real customs declaration. My advice is to do it all on line at www.usps.com. The only thing you really will need to find out is the Harmonized Tariff Schedule number for what you are exporting. HTS listings are online. Just make sure you the export HTS number, not the import HTS number for the USA. Be careful. Picking the wrong HTS number can vastly increase the import duty. For example some years ago someone built me an HID flashlight, it cost about $250 plus shipping. Had it been declared as a flashlight, my recollection was the import duty to the USA was 30%. I had him declare it as portable HID lighting which was non-dutiable. Don't worry if the HTS listings seem confusing. They are, and there is reason licensed customs brokers make such good money. They deal with this stuff for a living. However many products may fit in more than one HTS number. I always picked the one with the lowest duty, and was never challenged.

However even if you do it right, you can still run into trouble. I shipped a replacement part to someone in India using a GLR (repair license). Under US Law, such exports are required to have a value of ZERO since you are replacing equipment under warranty. Unfortunately Indian Customs regarded that as fraud and seized the shipment. Federal Express accused me of fraud, and I reminded them the documents has been prepared in accordance with US export law, and if their customs representatives in India had a problem with my complying with US law, they had a serious problem. A Vice President of Federal Express subsequently apologized and acknowledged that the export paper work had been filed in accordance with US law. I never did get the part back however. It turned out I was the meat in the sandwich in a pissing match between the Indian Government and Federal Express's Customs Brokerage firm in India. I ended up having to report the seizure to the Bureau of Export Control because it was a licensed export. I have no idea what they did.

Know and understand what you are selling and shipping, and understand the regulations. For example you cannot ship Lithium-Ion batteries Internationally unless they are actually installed in equipment. Domestically Lithium Primary cells for devices such as flashlights and cameras may be shipped. I interpret that to mean CR2 and CR123's are legal, any primary cell larger than that is a probably prohibited. Lithium Ion cells may be shipped domestically both in equipment, with equipment. However you are generally limited to 8 cells or 2 battery packs per shipment subject to a 1.1 pound weight limit for batteries shipped with and/or installed in equipment. The parcel usually must also be clearly labeled stating that it contains Lithium or Lithium Ion batteries. See http://pe.usps.gov/text/pub52/pub52c3_026.htm#ep929913

International shipping is far more restrictive. Lithium Cells must be installed in the equipment to be shipped International or to APO/FPO or DPO addresses. In other words, NO SPARE BATTERIES can be shipped either by themselves, or with the equipment. SEE http://pe.usps.gov/text/imm/immc1_014.htm#ep1059904 . Global Express Guaranteed shipments (a type of EMS service) cannot contain Lithium or Lithium Ion batteries period.

It goes without saying that all shipments containing batteries must be packed carefully in boxes that are heavy enough to survived USPS handling.

Most International shipments must be handed to a Postal Employee, you cannot simply drop them in a mail box. Some post offices deal with International Shipping much more than others, and some are much busier than others. If you are unlucky, you can waste an hour at the Post Office mailing an International Parcel. Another reason many US sellers don't want to be bothered. Not all Postal employees are trained in International shipping, and as a result, mistakes in documenting and handling these shipments are embarrassingly common. I had a EMS parcel to Kuwait returned to me because a postal employee thought you could not send parcels to Kuwait. It turned out you could not send some types of parcels, but EMS was clearly permitted. It only delayed the shipment a few days when I took the parcel back to the Post Office, and brought a copy of the relevant Postal Regulations with me. I also remember watching a transaction, and when I got the counter, actually asking the clerk if the parcel he had just accepted was legal. It turned out it wasn't, it exceeded the size limits. It was returned to the shipper. So expertise varies enormously and this can lead to considerable frustration for the shipper.

The bottom line for US sellers is that International Shipping is expensive, time consuming, and often carries far more risk (that the buyer is unwilling to compensate you for) than a domestic transaction. The domestic market is large enough that the potential gain from selling Internationally doesn't adequately compensate for the additional time and aggravation involved.
 
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SG Hall

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On behalf of the non US based members, Peter, thanks for posting that.

I can certainly understand the US based members not wanting to post overseas when they can sell items locally, but maybe you can change some minds by what you wrote.

As someone living in Australia, international post is no big deal. You have about 5 minutes of simple questions to answer and you pay a bit more. Every transaction I do with Vinh involves freight at least one way, sometimes more. Nothing has been lost yet and one got held up in customs and inspected before being passed on after a few days, inspected but undamaged. Lights coming from businesses in China are much less reliable to Australia, but not too bad.

The reality is, I have only purchased two lights from CPF members. One was in HK and one in Australia. It can be hard to change perceptions of those living in the centre of the community and marketplace, but I hope that maybe you have made them consider. [emoji106]
 

Woods Walker

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I have a biz (not flashlight related) and it's a PITA to send out international orders but I am totally sympathetic to the Peter's issue.
 

RobertMM

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I'm used to paying high for lights that I want, because more often than not the only option is BnM stores. Seeing smoking deals, getting excited and then seeing "ships to CONUS only" gets old after a while, sometimes I read just for the fun of it and wondering what could have been.

Importing lights from sellers that do ship usually gets 40-50% higher prices, due to customs and shipping.
 

peter yetman

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Would you be willing to either pay the huge cost for express shipping that can be insured/tracked? Or would you be willing to accept ALL risks such that if the item never showed up, you would not hold the seller accountable? Would you be willing to pay via PP friends & family which offers no buyer protection (provided of course that you were buying from a reputable seller)? If the answer is yes to these questions, then yes - I'd ship overseas. But it ain't happening unless the buyer assumes ALL risks. So ask yourself if you'd be ok with that before posing such plea. 99 percent of the time I have found that foreign buyers aren't willing to accept those terms. You want the item, but you also want the seller to take on the added risk of shipping something across the planet.
Thanks for all the replies, guys.
I can see that a main gripe is the compensation for a lost item.
Personally, I'm prepared to take the risk. I the item has been posted with good intentions I would have no gripe with the seller if it didn't arrive - sh*t happens. Though I can see that I'm in the 1%. That's always been the case with me.
Post #667, wonder what that is in numerological terms?
Thanks again for the feedback, it's helped me understand the problems involved. I guess I'll have to live with drooling over the Conus Only ones.
P
 
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Kestrel

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Have always had some sympathy for the international crowd among us on this, even did a Cheers thread back in the day:

Cheers to international buyers
Kestrel said:
I've had nothing but the best experiences with selling to international CPFers; It's a little more hassle dealing with proper shipping/packaging & customs forms on my end, but folks offshore are nearly always very understanding and patient. In my experience, they keep in mind the slight inconveniences that sellers here go through and often offer to send a few extra bucks to cover incidental expenses and whatnot. My experiences as a seller has virtually always been great communication before & after the sale. Edit: ... & they do their best to make the transaction as straightforward as possible.

So let's give a
thumbsup.gif
to all those patient CPFers out there who have to endure retailers' $35+ UPS shipping fees, often-exorbitant customs fees & tarrifs, and who have to miss out on the occasional great deals that CONUS-only sellers sometimes post.

Cheers,

It's difficult to count the countries I've shipped to over the years - Australia, HK, Singapore, the UK, Germany, & Bosnia come to mind tho.:candle:
 
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