Two Vintage Eveready Flashlights-Were they actually used by firefighters?

ericjohn · May 30, 2016

On the Flashlight Museum's page for the Eveready No. 108 All American Lantern (which is just the American version of the Australian Dolphin) the earliest comment states that the said flashlight was "...[SIZE=-1]For years used by firemen on hook & ladder companies in Chicago." However, that is the only reference I have seen anywhere on the web that indicates this flashlight being used by fire fighters. Does anyone know for sure if this light was actually used in fire fighting back in the 1960s-1970s? I've tried asking people in my local fire departments, but [/SIZE]none of them remember. It seems to cast a sharp beam and be quite rugged as far as impact and water resistance is concerned, but how well could it survive the extreme heat that fire fighters are exposed to?

The other Eveready flashlight model is the Captain series (1963 version.) It was used extensively on the show Emergency! The said show was definitely known for its accurate as possible portrayal of firefighters and paramedics. From my understanding; the Eveready Captain was top of the line in the pre Kel Lite world . (I know Emergency! came on after the Kel Lite was put on the market, but it's main market was police and security personnel. AND I've never seen a Kel Lite on Emergency!.) However, because of the Eveready Captain's glass lens and potentially flimsy switch, I just can't see it standing up to the use and abuse that fire fighting equipment is put through. Furthermore, it isn't explosion proof which maybe wasn't preferred/required by fire fighters in those days. In one episode they were using one inside of a railroad tank car.

I own one of each of these lights, by the way.

Also on Emergency!, the paramedics and sometimes physicians use what appears to be the Eveready Chrome Penlight No. 315 for various medical examinations. I could be wrong on guessing the exact model and make though. However, it seems to make the most sense for use in its field out of all three for those days.

Can someone please confirm or deny whether or not these aforementioned flashlights were actually used by firefighters and paramedics?

I would appreciate any help.

Thank you in advance!

bykfixer · May 30, 2016

Are you certain you're not an old guy Eric?
Love your threads.

There were 2 Eveready penlights out about the time Emergency aired. One was a 'heavy duty' version of the other. It used an awesome type of 222 bulb. A Norelco brand that was made in Holland.
I recently found one from my youth with original bulb still working. Smoked globe made it appear dim so I put in a new one. My mom used it to check us for concusions, light up splinters etc and later my dad used it to inspect gun barrels. My mom worked for a doctor so we had a slew of them back then.

I wonder if Eveready handed out a bunch of flashlights to the cast. Kinda like old Bond movies where every car is a Ford or AMC. It would not seem unusual for paramedics to use Captains.

I have a '64 captain and a couple from '76-ish. I prefer the switch on the 76 model.

I would speculate that 72/73 the Kel-Lite was still seen as a giant cop light. Eveready Captains (especially the junior 2C) are nice and light but durable. So rescue folks may have preferred that to the skull cracker Kel-Lites.

Every fire fighter I knew who would know are dead or playing golf in Florida.

If you haven't already check out David Whites sit 'gotalight.net' I've found flashlight museum to be wrong a number of times. Models of brands listed 3 years after that company had gone outta business etc.

Jbones · May 31, 2016

Although I don't have a straight yes or no answer for you, I hope I can help shed some light here.. I'm a professional firefighter in Jersey and seeing what we use today in fires, I would say they absolutely could've used the eveready ! You'd be surprised what holds up in a fire, take for example the cheap little eveready helmet strap lights that you can grab for 5$ a pop, runs off AA batteries, and lasts probably 2 or 3 fires before it craps out, but it works for those couple of fires. I use the Streamlight vantage clip on, a more expensive but way better alternative. And even take the industry standard Streamlight survivor, nothing but a thermoset plastic shell that houses the battery pack driver and led, nothing really insulates the batteries or emitter from heat. Most of the gear we use is polycarbonate, a thermoset plastic, simply because it won't "drip melt" it kinda deep fries and crumbles in place instead. It's a game of what's best at the moment, even our turnout gear has a warning on the inside of the coat that says "not approved for structural firefighting" meaning that there's no guarantee it'll keep you safe

I guess the theory back then was a light that was water proof was more important, and this is why...

Back in those times, the early 60's and 70's, the fires were actually much cooler than the ones we experience today, some experts say about 1/3 the heat of what we currently face with the introduction of the various new plastics and glues that make up a lot of the furniture and finished interior surfaces used today. Besides the wood paneling that became popular in the 70's, most of everything was real milled wood instead of glued and pressed sawdust from Sweden

Today when you're standing in a fire you can literally feel the difference in heat from your head to your toes, where the interior temperature can be well above 800 degrees at the ceiling level, floor level could be less than half of that, even around 150-300 degrees in a well ventilated fire, hence the reason why we're taught to crawl a lot of the times. So back then when all you had was rubber boots over your legs and a leather trench coat for up top, more importantly nothing protecting the real goods, I would guess the heat was much less intense so these would of survived

Also what you might find interesting is the melting point of the masks we use, off the top of my head it's somewhere around 300 degrees F (some, not all, I've never seen one melt, but heard some stories) according to some tests, hence why they're in the middle of rewriting the standard on what materials they use, off topic but gives light to the realities of the experience.

The flashlights we use today are still kind of crappy IMHO, big plastic chunks with silicone stripping at the seams that house the back up battery you would see if you have a home security system. Crap dim wide flood with a tiny hot spot, to some it does the job, because what makes a good smoke light is a laser beam thrower. Even then with any light, no matter how good, you can't see much at all through heavy smoke. Maybe its budget but most are still even halogen bulb style lights, slowly being replaced with LED

Interesting stuff for sure, next time I'm on I'll take a look in storage, we still have tons of old equipment, I doubt it woulda survived though.

What amazes me the most is how much LED technology changed the game and how advanced it's become in the short time it's been around. Even more are the more senior men in the department that the first thing they grab when they get off the rig is one of the giant halogen bulb lights like its the best thing ever, it probably was at the time

ericjohn · May 31, 2016

bykfixer said:
Are you certain you're not an old guy Eric?
Love your threads.

There were 2 Eveready penlights out about the time Emergency aired. One was a 'heavy duty' version of the other. It used an awesome type of 222 bulb. A Norelco brand that was made in Holland.
I recently found one from my youth with original bulb still working. Smoked globe made it appear dim so I put in a new one. My mom used it to check us for concusions, light up splinters etc and later my dad used it to inspect gun barrels. My mom worked for a doctor so we had a slew of them back then.

I wonder if Eveready handed out a bunch of flashlights to the cast. Kinda like old Bond movies where every car is a Ford or AMC. It would not seem unusual for paramedics to use Captains.

I have a '64 captain and a couple from '76-ish. I prefer the switch on the 76 model.

I would speculate that 72/73 the Kel-Lite was still seen as a giant cop light. Eveready Captains (especially the junior 2C) are nice and light but durable. So rescue folks may have preferred that to the skull cracker Kel-Lites.

Every fire fighter I knew who would know are dead or playing golf in Florida.

If you haven't already check out David Whites sit 'gotalight.net' I've found flashlight museum to be wrong a number of times. Models of brands listed 3 years after that company had gone outta business etc.

I'm 29.

That's old to some but young to others.

I just happen to like the flashlights made from the 1960s to the 1990s. I could picture a paramedic using an Eveready Captain, but I would still be surprised to see it used by fire fighters while on the fire ground.

I agree with you 100% on the Flashlight Museum being wrong sometimes, as I've seen many errors myself.

I'll take your word for it on being durable, but I always assumed the switch wouldn't last.

Thank you for your input.

ericjohn · May 31, 2016

Jbones said:
Although I don't have a straight yes or no answer for you, I hope I can help shed some light here.. I'm a professional firefighter in Jersey and seeing what we use today in fires, I would say they absolutely could've used the eveready ! You'd be surprised what holds up in a fire, take for example the cheap little eveready helmet strap lights that you can grab for 5$ a pop, runs off AA batteries, and lasts probably 2 or 3 fires before it craps out, but it works for those couple of fires. I use the Streamlight vantage clip on, a more expensive but way better alternative. And even take the industry standard Streamlight survivor, nothing but a thermoset plastic shell that houses the battery pack driver and led, nothing really insulates the batteries or emitter from heat. Most of the gear we use is polycarbonate, a thermoset plastic, simply because it won't "drip melt" it kinda deep fries and crumbles in place instead. It's a game of what's best at the moment, even our turnout gear has a warning on the inside of the coat that says "not approved for structural firefighting" meaning that there's no guarantee it'll keep you safe

I guess the theory back then was a light that was water proof was more important, and this is why...

Back in those times, the early 60's and 70's, the fires were actually much cooler than the ones we experience today, some experts say about 1/3 the heat of what we currently face with the introduction of the various new plastics and glues that make up a lot of the furniture and finished interior surfaces used today. Besides the wood paneling that became popular in the 70's, most of everything was real milled wood instead of glued and pressed sawdust from Sweden

Today when you're standing in a fire you can literally feel the difference in heat from your head to your toes, where the interior temperature can be well above 800 degrees at the ceiling level, floor level could be less than half of that, even around 150-300 degrees in a well ventilated fire, hence the reason why we're taught to crawl a lot of the times. So back then when all you had was rubber boots over your legs and a leather trench coat for up top, more importantly nothing protecting the real goods, I would guess the heat was much less intense so these would of survived

Also what you might find interesting is the melting point of the masks we use, off the top of my head it's somewhere around 300 degrees F (some, not all, I've never seen one melt, but heard some stories) according to some tests, hence why they're in the middle of rewriting the standard on what materials they use, off topic but gives light to the realities of the experience.

The flashlights we use today are still kind of crappy IMHO, big plastic chunks with silicone stripping at the seams that house the back up battery you would see if you have a home security system. Crap dim wide flood with a tiny hot spot, to some it does the job, because what makes a good smoke light is a laser beam thrower. Even then with any light, no matter how good, you can't see much at all through heavy smoke. Maybe its budget but most are still even halogen bulb style lights, slowly being replaced with LED

Interesting stuff for sure, next time I'm on I'll take a look in storage, we still have tons of old equipment, I doubt it woulda survived though.

What amazes me the most is how much LED technology changed the game and how advanced it's become in the short time it's been around. Even more are the more senior men in the department that the first thing they grab when they get off the rig is one of the giant halogen bulb lights like its the best thing ever, it probably was at the time

Thank you for your input and thank you for your service as a fire fighter!

You have informed me on many things I haven't been aware of, so kudos for that!

I'm starting to see it possible for the Eveready Captain to be used, but I'm still wondering about the Eveready All American Lantern. It throws a nice beam and is very rugged, but the heat. Of course like you said fires today are hotter than fires of bygone times because of modern materials.

I've have a friend who is a professional fire fighter and he says he prefers the LED Mini Maglites to the incandescent ones. I was shocked because I had always read that LED light produce much glare in a smoke filled enclosure, whereas incandescents when focused right cut through the smoke.

ericjohn · May 31, 2016

On a later note In my inter-flashaholic days (ages 14-17) I had purchased a plain Ozark Trail 6 Volt lantern. I remember trying to wear it on my belt after seeing a picture of a New York fire fighter during 9-11 in a magazine. I had no idea that his lantern was a much higher quality, either a Streamlight or a Bright Star. Later that evening I was walking on the road with that lantern and one man stopped to talk to me and said he thought I was a motorcycle in the distance because of the brightness of my light. Those Ozark Trail lanterns could sure throw, but they were extremely flimsy. The Eveready All American Lantern could be potentially as bright (if fitted with at least a Krypton bulb) but can take much more abuse.

bykfixer · May 31, 2016

ericjohn said:
I'm 29.

That's old to some but young to others.

I just happen to like the flashlights made from the 1960s to the 1990s. I could picture a paramedic using an Eveready Captain, but I would still be surprised to see it used by fire fighters while on the fire ground.

I agree with you 100% on the Flashlight Museum being wrong sometimes, as I've seen many errors myself.

I'll take your word for it on being durable, but I always assumed the switch wouldn't last.

Thank you for your input.

I say "are you old" because Emergency was a show we used to look forward to when I was a kid. It was one of those 'good guys wins' shows.

I can say from using some old Captains that it's a durable light compared to the sure enough junk lights that costed less. But at $4 for them vs 99¢ for the junk, only the grown had captains.
The switch on the outside would probably not hold up well in high heat scenarios. But the inside was pretty similar to lights made from the begining of 'switch'd' lights.

What took out flashlights when I was a kid was usually unattended batteries leaking.

Jbones · Jun 2, 2016

Glad I can be of some help ! I agree with your friend and would reach for an LED over incandescent any day. You're right about the glare, especially with a color temp of 6k and up. But the brightness makes up for the "high beams in a foggy night" effect. Just don't look at the guy holding the nozzle when you're talking if you have a helmet mount light, and you'll stay dry lol...

I broke out my zebra mk3 hi neutral one night during overhaul (after a fire is out when you search for hidden fires and make sure it's completely out). The house was still nice and smoked up and she cut right through it, manufacturers take note please !

It's a good question, after poking around storage my last shift I couldn't find any old lights, besides an antique lantern. I asked the senior men and they said the old flashlights looked like submarines and did the job, but they don't remember what brand they were, the oldest being on since 1980.

Cheers

ericjohn · Jun 7, 2016

bykfixer said:
I say "are you old" because Emergency was a show we used to look forward to when I was a kid. It was one of those 'good guys wins' shows.

I can say from using some old Captains that it's a durable light compared to the sure enough junk lights that costed less. But at $4 for them vs 99¢ for the junk, only the grown had captains.
The switch on the outside would probably not hold up well in high heat scenarios. But the inside was pretty similar to lights made from the begining of 'switch'd' lights.

What took out flashlights when I was a kid was usually unattended batteries leaking.

The only way I know about the show Emergency! is from watching a digital sub-channel known as MeTV and of course on Netflix.

From what I've learned on this thread, the Eveready Captain was the best light to have prior to the Kel Lite and all that followed it.

A little off topic, but I do have a picture ad from ~1956 of the Eveready 1251 and 1351 marketed to a policeman, a plumber, a mechanic, a farmer and an outdoors-man.

I could see each one of them using it except for the policeman, but then again that was 1956.

The LED version of the Eveready 1251 ~2013 is brighter but has a really flimsy switch, other than that it closely resembles the color and shape of the 2006 version which is just slightly different in color than the original 1992 version.

ericjohn · Jun 7, 2016

Jbones said:
Glad I can be of some help ! I agree with your friend and would reach for an LED over incandescent any day. You're right about the glare, especially with a color temp of 6k and up. But the brightness makes up for the "high beams in a foggy night" effect. Just don't look at the guy holding the nozzle when you're talking if you have a helmet mount light, and you'll stay dry lol...

I broke out my zebra mk3 hi neutral one night during overhaul (after a fire is out when you search for hidden fires and make sure it's completely out). The house was still nice and smoked up and she cut right through it, manufacturers take note please !

It's a good question, after poking around storage my last shift I couldn't find any old lights, besides an antique lantern. I asked the senior men and they said the old flashlights looked like submarines and did the job, but they don't remember what brand they were, the oldest being on since 1980.

Cheers

Thank you for sharing your experiences and doing the research! You went above and beyond!

I'm sorry I took a while to reply, but I had a wisdom tooth extracted on the 2nd and have been battling an infection from that ever since.

ericjohn · Jun 7, 2016

This is the ad for the Eveready 1251/1351

bykfixer · Jun 7, 2016

Neat old ad there.

Fulton lights were also used when durability mattered. They were used by the military. Still are.

The 991, 2 and 3 were seen as super reliable, end user servicable. Plus they were inexpensive.

The 993

Don't know how many fireman used them though.
But that be why 'the senior' said "they looked like a submarine". Bullet shaped lights were also popular.

Olin made some good ones too.

lightfooted · Jun 7, 2016

ericjohn said:
On the Flashlight Museum's page for the Eveready No. 108 All American Lantern (which is just the American version of the Australian Dolphin) the earliest comment states that the said flashlight was "...[SIZE=-1]For years used by firemen on hook & ladder companies in Chicago." However, that is the only reference I have seen anywhere on the web that indicates this flashlight being used by fire fighters. Does anyone know for sure if this light was actually used in fire fighting back in the 1960s-1970s? I've tried asking people in my local fire departments, but [/SIZE]none of them remember. It seems to cast a sharp beam and be quite rugged as far as impact and water resistance is concerned, but how well could it survive the extreme heat that fire fighters are exposed to?

The other Eveready flashlight model is the Captain series (1963 version.) It was used extensively on the show Emergency! The said show was definitely known for its accurate as possible portrayal of firefighters and paramedics. From my understanding; the Eveready Captain was top of the line in the pre Kel Lite world . (I know Emergency! came on after the Kel Lite was put on the market, but it's main market was police and security personnel. AND I've never seen a Kel Lite on Emergency!.) However, because of the Eveready Captain's glass lens and potentially flimsy switch, I just can't see it standing up to the use and abuse that fire fighting equipment is put through. Furthermore, it isn't explosion proof which maybe wasn't preferred/required by fire fighters in those days. In one episode they were using one inside of a railroad tank car.

I own one of each of these lights, by the way.

Also on Emergency!, the paramedics and sometimes physicians use what appears to be the Eveready Chrome Penlight No. 315 for various medical examinations. I could be wrong on guessing the exact model and make though. However, it seems to make the most sense for use in its field out of all three for those days.

Can someone please confirm or deny whether or not these aforementioned flashlights were actually used by firefighters and paramedics?

I would appreciate any help.

Thank you in advance!

Yes, yes it was. I can personally vouch for at least one fire department in WA that used the 108 on their engines as well as seeing it in some of the kits on board the Country Response Ambulances (full life support rated rigs) during the eighties. Back in the early eighties my dad carried first the big 5D "club-light" followed by the 6D cell Baton version Kel-Light (I think it was a Kel-Light). Unfortunately I allowed a squad member to borrow the old 5D Kel-Light one time. Never saw it or him again.
That thing was way sturdier than ~any~ light since. I disassembled it once to clean it and seriously...the walls of the head had to be nearly 1/4" inch thick! Pretty sure anyways...maybe ;P

ericjohn · Jun 8, 2016

bykfixer said:
Neat old ad there.

Fulton lights were also used when durability mattered. They were used by the military. Still are.

The 991, 2 and 3 were seen as super reliable, end user servicable. Plus they were inexpensive.

The 993

Don't know how many fireman used them though.
But that be why 'the senior' said "they looked like a submarine". Bullet shaped lights were also popular.

Olin made some good ones too.

Thanks for the pictures!

I can definitely picture the second one (the Olin) being used by FDs if it is as durable as the Eveready Captain.

Fulton was VERY popular in the military, but I have owned a few and I find that they give a lot of trouble.

ericjohn · Jun 8, 2016

lightfooted said:
Yes, yes it was. I can personally vouch for at least one fire department in WA that used the 108 on their engines as well as seeing it in some of the kits on board the Country Response Ambulances (full life support rated rigs) during the eighties. Back in the early eighties my dad carried first the big 5D "club-light" followed by the 6D cell Baton version Kel-Light (I think it was a Kel-Light). Unfortunately I allowed a squad member to borrow the old 5D Kel-Light one time. Never saw it or him again.
That thing was way sturdier than ~any~ light since. I disassembled it once to clean it and seriously...the walls of the head had to be nearly 1/4" inch thick! Pretty sure anyways...maybe ;P

Thank you for that. I couldn't count the comment on the Flashlight Museum as 100% true, because not everything on-line is.

What exactly did the fire fighters/paramedics use them for?

Was it just for lighting through a burning building?
And if so, how did they attach it to their gear?

bykfixer · Jun 8, 2016

Eric,

Any speak of the Rayovac Sportsman?
That one seemed to be a sturdy one. At least the one I have from (guessing here) late 50's to early 60's.

Jbones · Jun 9, 2016

ericjohn said:
Thank you for sharing your experiences and doing the research! You went above and beyond!

I'm sorry I took a while to reply, but I had a wisdom tooth extracted on the 2nd and have been battling an infection from that ever since.

Yikes hope you feel better, and cheers buddy ! We're a proud group and happy to share

ericjohn · Jun 10, 2016

bykfixer said:
Eric,

Any speak of the Rayovac Sportsman?
That one seemed to be a sturdy one. At least the one I have from (guessing here) late 50's to early 60's.

The Eveready Captain was probably the answer to the Rayovac Sportsman albeit, 14 years late. The Captain being introduced in 1963 and the Sportsman 1949 (according to Rayovac's website.)

Unfortunately, when I ask my local fire fighters "what flashlights were used by your department or company back in the day?" the answers across the board are "I don't know/I don't know who would know."

I have seen a few times about 11 years ago volunteer fire fighters with a red incandescent Mini Maglite in its holster on their belt next to the Minitor pager. I rarely see other colors, when I do, it's black.

bykfixer · Jun 11, 2016

ericjohn said:
The Eveready Captain was probably the answer to the Rayovac Sportsman albeit, 14 years late. The Captain being introduced in 1963 and the Sportsman 1949 (according to Rayovac's website.)

Unfortunately, when I ask my local fire fighters "what flashlights were used by your department or company back in the day?" the answers across the board are "I don't know/I don't know who would know."

I have seen a few times about 11 years ago volunteer fire fighters with a red incandescent Mini Maglite in its holster on their belt next to the Minitor pager. I rarely see other colors, when I do, it's black.

I suppose one would have to visit a retired fire fighter convention for definitive answers as a collective.

Way, way back in about 1908 Conrad Hubert handed out a few of his "Ever Ready" flashlights to New York police departments.
The story goes that the precinct(s) would allow an officer to use it, then pass along to another one.
After a couple of weeks rave reviews came pouring in.

Stories such as "able to spot hiding crooks", "see dark jail cells without turning on the lights", "spot steps while walking into basement jails" and a bunch of novel uses like that.
Imagine, up to that point policemen were doing their job without a flashlight.
Eureka! The cop light was born.
Some took them home and told stories of household uses and wives able to see after dark to find candles etc.
Crazy how much we take them for granted these days, huh?

lightfooted · Jun 15, 2016

ericjohn said:
Thank you for that. I couldn't count the comment on the Flashlight Museum as 100% true, because not everything on-line is.

What exactly did the fire fighters/paramedics use them for?

Was it just for lighting through a burning building?
And if so, how did they attach it to their gear?

Sorry I'm a bit late with the reply...wasn't seeing this come up when I would browse.

Most of the ones I saw were used to help light the scene of car collisions to treat the people and related stuff but I do recall a few of them having long nylon straps attached to them. I assumed it was a shoulder strap or similar (messenger bag style). I saw them attached to various places inside the rigs so I assumed that they were common use items, velcro was used more than once. As for the ambulance crews, they were either carried in hand or attached to the over-sized duffle that they carried to the scene for treatment.

Even though I don't recall ever seeing them used for entry into a burning building, I have no reason to believe they used anything else. There may have been a few personally bought lights being used by some...but these lights appeared to be standard issue by the county. Usually they were labeled with the County Fire District and engine number on them. I remember one unit that had one modified with a metal latch like those used on some toolboxes of the time as a quick-release mount. The more I think about it, the more I believe it might have been a fire extinguisher mounting bracket that they modified.

Two Vintage Eveready Flashlights-Were they actually used by firefighters?

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