Is there a new Nichia 219B out there?

I have a number of lights with the Nichia 219A and B. Some of my lights have he characteristic pinkish white color that we have all come to love. But the last two lights I have purchased using the 219B (a Sportac Triple and the Astrolux S41) seem to have a VERY different emitter. Rather than the pinkish tint, they seem to be more yellowish. Is this the new look for the Nichia 219B?

There are so many 219B variants that you cannot say there is a single 219B look.

Just like the Crees there is a variety of flux,tint, and cct bins. The new LED would be the 219C series, but again multiple variants.

Thetasigma said:

Just like the Crees there is a variety of flux,tint, and cct bins. The new LED would be the 219C series, but again multiple variants.

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I'm aware of the 219C. But these lights don't use this emitter.

StorminMatt said:

I'm aware of the 219C. But these lights don't use this emitter.

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Simplest change that is noticeable is the astrolux uses a 5000k cct version which will be whiter than the warmer ccts like the 4500k or 4000k.

StorminMatt said:

I have a number of lights with the Nichia 219A and B. Some of my lights have he characteristic pinkish white color that we have all come to love. But the last two lights I have purchased using the 219B (a Sportac Triple and the Astrolux S41) seem to have a VERY different emitter. Rather than the pinkish tint, they seem to be more yellowish. Is this the new look for the Nichia 219B?

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it would be interesting if you would post a photo of the beams side by side so we can see what you mean

left to right, CuTool N219b 4000k, L11c N219b 4500k, Maratac XPG2 5800k

StorminMatt said:

I have a number of lights with the Nichia 219A and B. Some of my lights have he characteristic pinkish white color that we have all come to love. But the last two lights I have purchased using the 219B (a Sportac Triple and the Astrolux S41) seem to have a VERY different emitter. Rather than the pinkish tint, they seem to be more yellowish. Is this the new look for the Nichia 219B?

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The S41 uses 5000K 219B. They look more yellow than the more common 4500K 219B we're all used to. Both types are high CRI.

It's confusing. My Manker E01 is 4000K (NVSW219C ~ not sure this is true??) and looks too warm/yellow. My Malkoff MD2 also has a 4000K but it's COMPLETELY different (NVSL219B) - practically all white with a decent touch of the "rose" or "pink" characteristic.

Wish companies would give the actual tint bin of the specific LED used.

twistedraven said:

Wish companies would give the actual tint bin of the specific LED used.

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I suspect many of them are getting random mixed junk at dirt-cheap prices, so they can't...and don't want to. I've purchased so many versions of the same light to find them completely different each time. Maybe that has to do with more than just the bin though. I don't know.

I like the discussion. I have four Sportac Nichia triples. The first one is single mode (from when they first came out) is cooler, the second is also single mode (later batch) actually came out hybrid. This second one has one cooler LED and the other two are warm. When I shine it to the wall, one of the pedals (looks like a flower) of the beam is noticeably cooler then the rest of the beam. The latest two I picked up are the two-mode and they are warm tinted. All purchased from Illumination Gear. At first, I did not like the "hybrid", but I've gotten used to it now. I just try to keep the cool part of the beam at the bottom when I use the light.

From my naked eyes, the tint on my Astrolux S41 219B is almost the same as my ReyLight Triple 219C, and both of them are rated at 5000K.
My Sinner Triple which uses 219B but rated at 4500-4700K, has a pinkish rose tint, compared to the 2 above which are a bit yellowish

Lets try to distinguish Tint from Color Temperature.

It is possible to have a 4000k Color temperature with a Pink Tint and also with a Yellow Tint. The Yellow Tint does not equate to warmer.

Tint is a description of whether the LED output is above or below the Black Body line. Above is yellow/green, below is pink/magenta.

Color temperature is what we are talking about when we list Kelvin, so a 5000K light is not its tint its just its color temperature. 4000k is warmer than 5000k but is not necessarily more yellow tinted.

It is possible to have a 4000k with pink tint and a 5000k with yellow or even green tint.

Warmth and yellowness are not the same criteria. One is Color Temperature, the other is tint.

Here are two lights with the same 3000k Color Temperature, but one has Yellow Tint and the other has Rose/Magenta tint

Here are the same tints, located on the spectrum graph. Note the yellow is above and the rose is below, the Black Body line

To say a 4000k light has a Warmer tint than a 5000k light is not accurate use of terminology. Warmth refers to Kelvin Color Temperature being of a lower value than a higher Kelvin Color Temperature. Yellowness vs pinkness is a reference to Tint, but not to Color Temperature.

So, it is possible to have two lights with the same Color Temperature, but different Tints.

I hope that is not adding confusion. Lets take one more pass at how to use Tint and Color Temperature in a sentence:

It is very common that people post phrases like "my 4000k has a warmer tint". But that is confusing Color Temperature, with the Tint of that particular example of an LED. It is accurate to say a 4000k has a warmer Color Temperature than a 5000k, and also to say another 4000k has a more yellow or more pink tint than another 4000k or even 5000k LED. But again, yellow and pink are Tint variations, not Warmth variations.

In fact, 4000k is not actually Warm, its Neutral, but 4000k IS WarmER than 5000k.


you can see on the above chart that 4000k is Neutral, 5000k is on the Cool side of 4000k, and 3000k is on the warm side of 4000k.

Nice informative post Jon!

gunga said:

Nice informative post Jon!

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It is a very good posts and accurately shows how tint and color temperature are pieces of to the puzzle but not the same piece!

I think what gets lost on a lot of people is the fact that saying a light has a 219B is no more telling than saying it has a XM-L2. There are low and high CRI versions of the 219B and there are many different tints, flux bins, and color temperatures of it.

Different charts have different white points for their color temperatures. I've seen ones that say something as low as 4000k is white and some that say 6500k is white. While there really is no true subjective white, it is fair to say that something with lower color temperature will be warmer relative to something of higher color temperature in vice-versa.

If we were to take the best reference lighting we know of (our sun) and analyze its spectral distribution by the time it hits the surface, then around 5300 kelvin is when it has the best balance of spectra.

Nichia are well known for being pleasantly pink, sad to hear that some of these 219Bs aren't quite as pink. The 219VBT-V1 SW57 bin on my Jaxman E2 is lovely pink, even compared to the SW45 binned 219B in my L11C. A good part of that is thanks to its high (around 80) R9 saturation. If you're looking for a pink tint, I'd give that emitter a shot.

staticx57 said:

It is a very good posts and accurately shows how tint and color temperature are pieces of to the puzzle but not the same piece!

I think what gets lost on a lot of people is the fact that saying a light has a 219B is no more telling than saying it has a XM-L2. There are low and high CRI versions of the 219B and there are many different tints, flux bins, and color temperatures of it.

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For sure. Now to find a good explanation on bin. I don't understand it all but I know that I really like the tint/color of my new Manker E-14.

bob

twistedraven said:

Nichia are well known for being pleasantly pink, sad to hear that some of these 219Bs aren't quite as pink. The 219VBT-V1 SW57 bin on my Jaxman E2 is lovely pink, even compared to the SW45 binned 219B in my L11C. ... If you're looking for a pink tint, I'd give that emitter a shot.

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I would like to learn more about how to read LED designations. Im a newbie and have just begun to sort through all the variables. I invite further education.

Here is the little I think I understand about a 219b SW57 vs a 219b SW45. I believe SW57 means 5700Kelvin Color Temperature, and I believe SW45 means 4500Kelvin Color Temperature. I do not think those are Tint Bin values.

It is possible to have a 5700K with yellow or pink tint
It is also possible to have a 4500k with yellow or pink tint

there is no pattern that insures that a SW57 will be yellow or pink or an SW45 will be yellow or pink. A higher SW does not mean more pink

in fact, my SW45 is more yellow than my SW40 lights:
left to right Worm SW40 (more yellow tint), TiTool SW40, CuTool SW40 (more pink tint), L11c SW45 (more yellow tint).. Note all 3 SW40 have different Tint, hence the term Tint Lottery.


CuTool SW40 (pink tint and warmer temperature) and L11c SW45 (yellow tint and cooler temperature)


note: the 4 beam photo and the 2 beam photo uses the same CuTool and L11c, but the pics were taken at different times of day, and the iPhone camera is adjusting its white balance automatically. So how pink in absolute terms is the CuTool or how yellow in absolute terms the L11c is, cannot be known from the photos alone. For this reason photos of beams side by side are more useful than individual beams.

I encourage others to post side by side shots. I suggest using a piece of printer paper folded to 90 degrees. (there is a can of Macadamia nuts propping the vertical fold up..).



I welcome a tutorial on N219b tint bin specs, I dont know which letters indicate how pink or yellow an LED Tint is. afaict, the SW designation is not tint color, its Kelvin Color Temperature. It is definitely confusing since both tint and temperature use the word color

Tint can vary from yellow/green above the black body line, to rose/magenta below the black body line.

Temperature can vary from cooler and Bluer to warmer and Yellower

The effect of ambient light also impacts how our eyes perceive a flashlight. For example, during the day, with eyes accustomed to Sunlight, the CuTool will look more warm (yellow?), than the same CuTool at night, when my eyes are accustomed to 3000k incandescent.

again there is cross confusion of the term Yellow, in one case referring to tint, and in another referring to temperature.

Any pointers to further education welcome

You are correct, yes. The SW values indicate their flux bins. The SW57 on the 219BT-V1 indicates that it's 5400-5700k. The SW45 on the 219B indicates that it's 4500k. The 219BT-V1 is an entirely different emitter iirc compared to the 219B, and it just so happens that the majority of people who've tried it out on the Jaxman E2 have found it to be lovely pink (relatively speaking). Its hotspot is also roughly around 5400kelvin so it's pretty damned pure white.

twistedraven said:

pure white.

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sunlight varies over a wide range of color temperatures
our eyes have automatic white balance

when our eyes are adapted to outdoor light at noon on a sunny day, 6000k looks closer to pure white than 4000k

but in the evening when our eyes may be adapted to 3000k incandescent light, 6000k looks bluer, and the 4000k looks closer to pure white

iow, "whiteness" is relative to ambient light acclimatization of our brains internal white balance

imo, it is less confusing to speak in terms of Kelvin Color Temperature, than in terms of warmth or whiteness

now I demonstrate the confusion that the term white creates:
in the evening, 4000k is more white than 3000k
in the day, 4000k is less white than 6000k

"see" what I mean?

I have noticed that If I use a light whose Color Temperature is about 1000k above ambient, it seems "brighter", because it is "whiter"

now we have a new term to integrate, besides tint and temperature, we now add brightness. Note more brightness implies more lumens, but again confusion enters the conversation, because higher than ambient Kelvin Color Temperature seems brighter than a light with lower than ambient Kelvin..

> the majority of people who've tried it out on the Jaxman E2 have found it to be lovely pink (relatively speaking)

pics, side by side, help eliminate a LOT of confusion.. please post your Jaxman compared to something else, side by side.. Im very interested in Photos