Best (LED) Bulbs For The Buck?

With the exception of a few florescent bulbs my entire house is run on incans.

Aside from the ordinary incan bulbs, the types of bulbs I need to replace are as follows (ref pic below):

Are all these styles even made in LED?

I'd rather spend a few bucks extra up front (if I have to) and get quality then get screwed buying the cheap stuff.

Any ideas on brands and sources?

I have seen all of these in LED.

For search purposes, you should do searches based on their designated bulb shape.

1. F15
2. ER20, though it may be an ER30?
3. G25

The brands are all over the place when it comes to the non-general purpose bulbs, in my experience. I know Philips and GE make an LED F15, but I don't know how good they are. I had to buy some no-name brand G25s for my bathroom and they worked out just fine. If you have a lot to replace, you might just want to buy a few bulbs from different brands and see what works for you before you buy in bulk.

For your #3 choice the Baraboo or La Crosse Menards has these $4 Lighting Science filament bulbs:
https://www.menards.com/main/electr...4046202710-c-7482.htm?tid=3964247883971958411

When Menards dumps old product their prices are INSANELY CHEAP! Look up "led bulbs", priced low to high. (many are closeout but good quality)
https://www.menards.com/main/electr...page=1&sortby=priceAsc&tid=906264309473140315

They will mail closeout stuff also, but try to get them to UPS it. Otherwise they'll gouge you on FedEx prices.

My apologies for not replying sooner. I am not getting my email notifications for some reason...I'll be back later today....

kilogulf59 said:

With the exception of a few florescent bulbs my entire house is run on incans.

Aside from the ordinary incan bulbs, the types of bulbs I need to replace are as follows (ref pic below):

1. 40W dimmable decorative bulb

2. 45W dimmable indoor floodlight bulb

3. 40W clear globe bulb
​

Are all these styles even made in LED?

I'd rather spend a few bucks extra up front (if I have to) and get quality then get screwed buying the cheap stuff.

Any ideas on brands and sources?

​

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For #1 (F15), I really like these: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...ight-Dimmable-LED-Light-Bulb-458620/206514303 they dim like a incan bulb, as in they become "warmer"/more orange as they are dimmed. And they have a good light quality (I own some of these).

For #2 (R20) you can get nearly any off the shelf brand will be OK. Depends if you want an R style or PAR style, but HD and Costco have them in several brands. The ones at Costco are R20 FEIT with 92 CRI and relatively good price. We use the BR40 version of the FEITs, so far so good, just too darn bright IMO.

First, I do apologize for being late in my reply. That usually doesn't happen and I consider it very rude on my part but, this week "poop occurred" and I was a tad busy.

Second, all you your replies have been very helpful to me. I greatly appreciate this forum and it's knowledgeable members as I have learned so much here.

Third, the inevitable "more questions"...are there any bad LED bulbs or manufacturers to shy away from? As well, soft light vs daylight; is the difference that great?

kilogulf59 said:

First, I do apologize for being late in my reply. That usually doesn't happen and I consider it very rude on my part but, this week "poop occurred" and I was a tad busy.

Second, all you your replies have been very helpful to me. I greatly appreciate this forum and it's knowledgeable members as I have learned so much here.

Third, the inevitable "more questions"...are there any bad LED bulbs or manufacturers to shy away from? As well, soft light vs daylight; is the difference that great?

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Daylight is is very harsh too me inside a house and I don't even want that in a closet. It makes a room feel sterile and not homely. I prefer less than 4000K (warmer) tints.

Thanks 7tisix, I'll keep that in mind.

Essentially, the daylight or higher than 3/4K, are for work type applications and less of soft light is for about the house?

In my house, kitchen/bathroom is 4000k, and the rest are 3000k. 2700k is a bit too warm for my taste unless it's a nightstand light. I'd prefer 3500k in things like my living room but it's not really a common temperature right now and it's not a huge deal to me.

The problem for me is finding the right warmth level in the right bulb style and at the right price. In my kitchen alone I have 6 R20 bulbs and 12 G25's in the bathrooms, plus 6 F15's in the dining-room to replace and that's not including the regular bulbs! Even experimenting by buying one bulb at a time until we find the right one could get costly. I'm figuring I'm going to have to guess right the first time and live with it.

My general experience with non-standard bulbs is that you can pick any two of those criteria, and the third will be a toss-up. If you are very very picky, then you are probably better off waiting a year or two.

LOL...you may be right. I think I may be over-researching it. However, when you're talking about that much do-re-mi ya don't want to blow it either

OK, I'm going to be smart for a change and pop for a few test bulbs to get an idea of what we like. We had to go up to Walmart (28 miles from home!) so I figure I'll take a shot and buy a couple of LED bulbs to see if we'd like the "warmth" levels. I picked up a 3-way standard bulb (40/60/100W), a 60W standard (non-dimmable) bulb, and an R20 50W (dimmable) bulb for the recessed "cans" in the kitchen. All are rated at 2700K or "warm" which seams to be the standard warmth of the less expensive LED bulbs.

Anyway, the 3-way seems perfect. The 60W, which is in the range hood, is good and a keeper but could be a lil "colder", then there's that GD R20 bulb. It is short! The bulb diameter and base (E26) match but it's too darn short!!! I didn't know there's different lengths to R20 bulbs...everyone I've seen online looks like the one that came from the fixture (on the right) and I've never had any problems buying replacement incans either. The one on the left is the R20 LED that I just bought. Note that there's nothing denoting length on the box (right pic) just R20 in the upper right corner (reference pics below). Do I have to bring in one of each type of bulb I want to replace so I can match the new LED? How would I order online? What did I do wrong, what did I miss???

PS
I even remembered to get a dimmable R20 bulb!

I am livid to say the least :hairpull:


Incidentally, this is typical of what I found when I looked up R20 bulbs, there nothing there about a short or long model...

CoveAxe said:

If you are very very picky, then you are probably better off waiting a year or two.

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I'm not so sure. I think we're about to hit, if we haven't already, the race to the bottom part of the LED light cycle where quality drops, bulb lifetimes get shorter, and we end up with junk.

The 1000h lifetime of the typical incandescent was a result of collusion between bulb makers in the 1900's to make sure bulbs were consumable items. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

Theoretically, LED bulbs and fixtures are a one time purchase. Unless the LED lightbulb becomes a consumable item there's little money to be made in LED bulbs and lighting after the initial switch. There's a reason why GE and others are looking to exit the consumer bulb space.

I do not doubt your feelings one bit...considering that every politician is literally bought and paid, for who's going to stop them?

I've taken to building my own home LED lighting, so far I'm on year 4 of most fixtures with no dimming, discoloration or failures. I know this isn't an option for many people but it does do away with many of the problems people run into trying to choose from current options.

I'm not so sure. I think we're about to hit, if we haven't already, the race to the bottom part of the LED light cycle where quality drops, bulb lifetimes get shorter, and we end up with junk.

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Then why have the quality and efficiency of bulbs gone up? Bulbs only 3-4 years ago had several pounds worth of heatsink on them, and now those would be laughed out of the store. I'm not sure where you're shopping but I still have no problem finding long life LED bulbs.

The 1000h lifetime of the typical incandescent was a result of collusion between bulb makers in the 1900's to make sure bulbs were consumable items. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

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This has been brought up before, so I won't go too far into it: The real reason is because 1000 hours is a compromise between efficiency and lifetime. You can either have a very long life bulb that can barely light a closet, or you can have a very bright and very efficient bulb that only lasts a few minutes. 1000 hour is a compromise between those two. You can find 10,000 hour incandescents quite easily, but they are so inefficient that no one uses them except for situations where changing the bulb is very inconvenient or dangerous.

Theoretically, LED bulbs and fixtures are a one time purchase.

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Perhaps in theory, but in practice that has yet to be demonstrated.

CoveAxe said:

Then why have the quality and efficiency of bulbs gone up? Bulbs only 3-4 years ago had several pounds worth of heatsink on them, and now those would be laughed out of the store.

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Because the corners are already being cut. Lighter bulbs are cheaper to make and cheaper to transport. Where is the big efficiency gain? I can't say that I've come across 200lm/W bulbs. Can you point me to a inexpensive 5W LED bulb with 900 lumen? Most are barely 100lm/W. That's pretty much exactly where we were with the L-prize bulbs 5 years ago.

I'm not sure where you're shopping but I still have no problem finding long life LED bulbs.

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So despite no efficiency gains the bulbs are cheaper and weight less, but you think they're just as reliable? So the early bulbs were just overbuilt and over engineered?

Perhaps in theory, but in practice that has yet to be demonstrated.

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I'm confused. You were just telling me how the current bulbs are long life. You think 50k hour lifetime is real, but you think they're not one time purchases?

I can't say that I've come across 200lm/W bulbs

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Not 200 lm/W, but I can easily find ~150 lm/W fixtures and 120 lm/W bulbs. Considering that just five years ago all available models were about 60 lm/W, I'd say that's a pretty good increase in just a few short years. This isn't even looking at the huge decrease in cost or increase in color rendering quality during that time. L Prize was the first bulb to demonstrate ~100 lm/W (available for sale ~4 years ago BTW), but it also cost more than $50. There's also nothing to suggest that higher efficiencies won't be coming out in the future.

So the early bulbs were just overbuilt and over engineered?

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Yes, they were. But they were also overbuilt because the efficiency was much poorer, and the components they were using weren't made for this kind of application. It was also a case of the engineers not fully understanding the thermal and electrical limits of what they were designing (it was, after all, completely new technology), so they tended to err on the conservative side to make sure that they were reasonably reliable. That's much different now: LEDs are much more thermally tolerant, the components are specially built for this kind of application, and they have years of data, experience, and manufacturing know-how to go off of.

I'm confused.

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I'm saying that I agree that it's theoretically possible, but people replace fixtures all the time, just because styles change. People will also replace their bulbs because newer ones will have new features that their old ones didn't (wifi/bluetooth, built-in speakers, color-changing, motion detection, lifi, other things that haven't been thought of yet). In practice, people will still replace their bulbs, just not as often as the incandescents. Lifetime has nothing to do with it.

CoveAxe said:

Not 200 lm/W, but I can easily find ~150 lm/W fixtures and 120 lm/W bulbs.

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Where? I took a quick look at the various LED bulbs at my local Costco yesterday and didn't find a single one that was appreciably over 100lm/W. Most were below that mark.

Yes, they were. But they were also overbuilt because the efficiency was much poorer, and the components they were using weren't made for this kind of application. It was also a case of the engineers not fully understanding the thermal and electrical limits of what they were designing (it was, after all, completely new technology), so they tended to err on the conservative side to make sure that they were reasonably reliable. That's much different now: LEDs are much more thermally tolerant, the components are specially built for this kind of application, and they have years of data, experience, and manufacturing know-how to go off of.

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I can't really say I agree with your assessment. I already see bulbs with shorter lifetimes. 15k hours instead of 25k. Unless the current crop of LED bulbs use dies that are much more tolerant of heat they're just trading heatsinking for shorter lifetimes from the LED dies. They also lets them use cheaper components in the drive circuitry since it's not expected to last as long. There's no free lunch with LEDs. They don't like heat. The electronics that drive them don't like heat. With a dramatic increase in efficiency there's not much that can be done to reduce the amount of heat that has to be dissipated. Along the same lines I don't see flashlight manufacturers reducing heatsinking because their older lights were overbuilt.