UK Law Carrying Large Flashlight/Baton Type/ Maglite?

outofthedarkness · Sep 26, 2016

Does anyone know the UK Law with regards to carrying a Large Flashlight such as a Solarforce Gladiator, 4D or 6D Maglite, Or Similar Large Flashlights that could be frowned upon as a Offensive Weapon?

I done alot of googling and some suggestions that the 6D and 4D maglites are now classed as an offensive weapon in the UK, it was only on 1 site and im not sure how true it is...

I wanted to purchase a Solarforce Gladiator but Im not going to want to get into trouble over using it so I thought id ask on here what the current laws are...

Please only comment if you are regarding the UK (England) not interested in other countries laws as I know the UK is strict on this kind of thing...

mjgsxr · Sep 26, 2016

I live in N Ireland and do not know what the law says about a flashlights as offensive Weapon.
Why don't you call you local police station and ask them? I have called in to our local police station and they can be helpful some of the time.

If you keep a plain bezel on front of the Gladiator I would not class if as a weapon.

If you walk around in the day time with it they could question your reasons.

outofthedarkness · Sep 26, 2016

mjgsxr said:
I live in N Ireland and do not know what the law says about a flashlights as offensive Weapon.
Why don't you call you local police station and ask them? I have called in to our local police station and they can be helpful some of the time.

If you keep a plain bezel on front of the Gladiator I would not class if as a weapon.

If you walk around in the day time with it they could question your reasons.

Yes I thought that about the bezel, as much as i like it, it makes it appear to be too much of a weapon... Other thing that worries me is the name, if the police decide to be funny they could say its a baton light and as such a weapon with a name like gladiator...

I just am so unsure, don't want to get into trouble for carrying an offensive weapon, it sounds silly and it is because its just a flashlight but the laws are strict here in the UK

Anyone else from the UK have any info on this?

Chicken Drumstick · Sep 26, 2016

Why would anyone want to carry a Gladiator around?

At the end of the day, it's design intent it pretty obvious. Although context is everything. If you are using in your own garden, or on private land that's one thing.

If you are carrying down the high street, in day light or through a busy park, then it's completely different.

e.g.

If you have a cricket or baseball bat with you, would it be ok? Well yes if you are at the park, no if it's a shopping centre.

Same will apply with a Maglite. It's perfectly fine, although if you used it as a weapon or had it about you in an inappropriate place, then it could be deemed as offensive. But so could a snooker cue or a hammer.

outofthedarkness · Sep 26, 2016

Ok I think the answer is no...

Chicken Drumstick · Sep 26, 2016

No to what?

As I say, it's context sensitive. As almost anything can be 'used' as an offensive weapon. However that doesn't automatically make something an offensive weapon in other contexts.

I am certain you'll not find anything in UK law stating you are prohibited to carry a Maglite 4D or otherwise.

Dave D · Sep 26, 2016

An Offensive weapon is a tool made or adapted for the purpose of inflicting either mental or physical injury upon another person.

It is an Offence (in the United Kingdom) to carry an Offensive weapon on or about the person whilst in a public place.

Q. So is the gladiator a tool made for inflicting injury? A. Yes it is a baton (in addition to being a flashlight).

Q. Is a 6D Maglite made to inflict injury? A. No, it is made to be as flashlight. It would however become an offensive weapon if it was used to cause injury.

You will not get arrested for carrying a 6D Maglite in a public place, provided that you are not carrying it as self defence tool.

outofthedarkness · Sep 26, 2016

Dave D said:
An Offensive weapon is a tool made or adapted for the purpose of inflicting either mental or physical injury upon another person.

It is an Offence (in the United Kingdom) to carry an Offensive weapon on or about the person whilst in a public place.

Q. So is the gladiator a tool made for inflicting injury? A. Yes it is a baton (in addition to being a flashlight).

Q. Is a 6D Maglite made to inflict injury? A. No, it is made to be as flashlight. It would however become an offensive weapon if it was used to cause injury.

You will not get arrested for carrying a 6D Maglite in a public place, provided that you are not carrying it as self defence tool.

Thanks for clearing that up..

outofthedarkness · Sep 26, 2016

Dave D said:
An Offensive weapon is a tool made or adapted for the purpose of inflicting either mental or physical injury upon another person.

It is an Offence (in the United Kingdom) to carry an Offensive weapon on or about the person whilst in a public place.

Q. So is the gladiator a tool made for inflicting injury? A. Yes it is a baton (in addition to being a flashlight).

Q. Is a 6D Maglite made to inflict injury? A. No, it is made to be as flashlight. It would however become an offensive weapon if it was used to cause injury. This is the important part as far as I know if attacked and you use an ordinary item in self defence which you just happen to be carrying at that time such as car keys or a walking stick then its not classed as an offensive weapon? (if not modified or intended to be used as a weapon) Am I right?

You will not get arrested for carrying a 6D Maglite in a public place, provided that you are not carrying it as self defence tool.

Chicken Drumstick · Sep 26, 2016

Dave D said:
An Offensive weapon is a tool made or adapted for the purpose of inflicting either mental or physical injury upon another person.

It is an Offence (in the United Kingdom) to carry an Offensive weapon on or about the person whilst in a public place.

Q. So is the gladiator a tool made for inflicting injury? A. Yes it is a baton (in addition to being a flashlight).

Q. Is a 6D Maglite made to inflict injury? A. No, it is made to be as flashlight. It would however become an offensive weapon if it was used to cause injury.

You will not get arrested for carrying a 6D Maglite in a public place, provided that you are not carrying it as self defence tool.

This is not 100% correct.

A knife or a gun are or could be offensive weapons, however it is perfectly legal to carry them in public (some conditions apply).

The gladiator may have a somewhat obvious intent in its design, however it is not sold or marketed as a 'baton' by the people who make it. It is marketed as a 4 cell flashlight host. No different to a Maglite or any other larger multi cell light.

On a more rational note however. Op, I asked earlier, why would you want to carry one? It's large and heavy, not really all that ergonomic and cumbersome. If it's dog walking or hiking, this simply is not an ideal package.

But taking this one step further, if your intent was to have it for self defence, are you proficient enough to use it as such? Having an item that could be taken from you and used against you is arguably worse.

Then there is the moral and mental situation. Would you actually be able to commit to using it in such fashion?

And lastly, if you are needing a light where you feel you need level of protection, have you considered going somewhere else?

If this is for 'security', then there would likely be grounds to claim your sole reason for carrying it is as a offensive weapon, which yes in the UK wouldn't go down well if you then used it as such.

As I say, context is everything. Lets face it, if you hit a person on the head with a C8 flashlight, then you could easily cause serious injury. And would likely be considered as being used as an offensive weapon. But then again so could an umbrella.

arKmm · Sep 26, 2016

I'm a UK police officer.

An offensive weapon as Dave has pointed out is something that is either manufactured, adapted, or intended to be used to cause injury to a human.

Taking the example of the gladiator, or those cheapie chinese torches currently doing the rounds on eBay where they are designed as a baton, but with a torch within, they will fall into the definition of a 'manufactured offensive weapon' because it's in their very design to be a weapon.

A maglite on the other hand, while it would make a very good weapon due to it's weight, is not an offensive weapon as no elements of it's design are for the purposes of weapons use. It's length and weight are purely down to it's large power source (a lot of d-cells). It could however come under the definition of an intended offensive weapon, but that would only be if you were carrying it in a public place intending to use it to cause injury to someone else. Which you wouldn't be, and even if you were, it'd be very difficult to prove that intent in court.

Something another member just mentioned is that if you've got an innocent item with you (such as a maglite, or set of car keys, etc.) and you're suddenly attacked and you then use this item to defend yourself, you would not be deemed to be in possession of an offensive weapon, even if you used it, because of the rule of 'instant arming' which is to say that if in immediate response to an attack, you take possession or utilise an article to defend yourself that you were not previously committing an offence with, then you are not guilty of possession of an offensive weapon. However, your response must be proportionate, reasonable, and necessary, otherwise you may find yourself guilty of assault, battery, wounding, etc. if you go too far.

I keep a Maglite 4D with XPG2 drop-in in the boot of my car. It's there as an ultra-reliable (well, unless the batteries leak..) emergency torch for all occasions (breakdown etc). That's my defence/rationale/reason for having it in my possession, but I could also instant arm with it, if the time came.

outofthedarkness · Sep 26, 2016

arKmm said:
I'm a UK police officer.

An offensive weapon as Dave has pointed out is something that is either manufactured, adapted, or intended to be used to cause injury to a human.

Taking the example of the gladiator, or those cheapie chinese torches currently doing the rounds on eBay where they are designed as a baton, but with a torch within, they will fall into the definition of a 'manufactured offensive weapon' because it's in their very design to be a weapon.

A maglite on the other hand, while it would make a very good weapon due to it's weight, is not an offensive weapon as no elements of it's design are for the purposes of weapons use. It's length and weight are purely down to it's large power source (a lot of d-cells). It could however come under the definition of an intended offensive weapon, but that would only be if you were carrying it in a public place intending to use it to cause injury to someone else. Which you wouldn't be, and even if you were, it'd be very difficult to prove that intent in court.

Something another member just mentioned is that if you've got an innocent item with you (such as a maglite, or set of car keys, etc.) and you're suddenly attacked and you then use this item to defend yourself, you would not be deemed to be in possession of an offensive weapon, even if you used it, because of the rule of 'instant arming' which is to say that if in immediate response to an attack, you take possession or utilise an article to defend yourself that you were not previously committing an offence with, then you are not guilty of possession of an offensive weapon. However, your response must be proportionate, reasonable, and necessary, otherwise you may find yourself guilty of assault, battery, wounding, etc. if you go too far.

I keep a Maglite 4D with XPG2 drop-in in the boot of my car. It's there as an ultra-reliable (well, unless the batteries leak..) emergency torch for all occasions (breakdown etc). That's my defence/rationale/reason for having it in my possession, but I could also instant arm with it, if the time came.

Wow thanks for such valuable information!

Can I ask how you got an XPG2 LED into a maglite, did you have it modded or did you mod it yourself?

I really like the Larger Maglites, I like both the 4D and 6D cell sizes, can you run these on anything other than D type cells, i.e unprotected cells to achieve more power output?

I found a 3rd Gen 6D Maglite on Ebay, I am tempted to buy it, its already fitted with LED from factory. Its about 700 Lumen stock... Im just not sure if its too big, maybe the 4D cell would be better...

mjgsxr · Sep 26, 2016

outofthedarkness said:
Wow thanks for such valuable information!

Can I ask how you got an XPG2 LED into a maglite, did you have it modded or did you mod it yourself?

I really like the Larger Maglites, I like both the 4D and 6D cell sizes, can you run these on anything other than D type cells, i.e unprotected cells to achieve more power output?

I found a 3rd Gen 6D Maglite on Ebay, I am tempted to buy it, its already fitted with LED from factory. Its about 700 Lumen stock... Im just not sure if its too big, maybe the 4D cell would be better...

Check out malkoff flashlights web site. He makes some of the best drop in's for a maglite. I think his brightest is around 1000 leumns.

Once you start maglite moding there's endless options.

You only think a 6d mag is big, I have a 6d with a 3 cell extension running a 250w bulb on 8 26650 batteries. If you are going to be attacked you won't need to use it as a baton, the heat OTF will burn them 10 feet out :crackup:

outofthedarkness · Sep 26, 2016

mjgsxr said:
Check out malkoff flashlights web site. He makes some of the best drop in's for a maglite. I think his brightest is around 1000 leumns.

Once you start maglite moding there's endless options.

You only think a 6d mag is big, I have a 6d with a 3 cell extension running a 250w bulb on 8 26650 batteries. If you are going to be attacked you won't need to use it as a baton, the heat OTF will burn them 10 feet out

Cool... Any pics? :twak:

:lolsign:

arKmm · Sep 26, 2016

outofthedarkness said:
Wow thanks for such valuable information!

Can I ask how you got an XPG2 LED into a maglite, did you have it modded or did you mod it yourself?

I really like the Larger Maglites, I like both the 4D and 6D cell sizes, can you run these on anything other than D type cells, i.e unprotected cells to achieve more power output?

I found a 3rd Gen 6D Maglite on Ebay, I am tempted to buy it, its already fitted with LED from factory. Its about 700 Lumen stock... Im just not sure if its too big, maybe the 4D cell would be better...

Hi,

The XPG2 drop ins are available from a UK supplier called 'The Torch Site' and upgrade the Mag to just shy of 300 lumen. I also have one of the 3rd generation mags and would recommend. They come in 2C 3C 2D 3D and 'Magcharger' variants. The first four just run on either disposable or rechargeable C/D cells. The mag charger is the same size roughly as a 4D but has a built in proprietary battery pack and charges with a supplied cradle. There's a UK supplier of them all called TorchDirect. Worth a look at least.

In order to not derail this thread, PM me if you'd like to know more

mjgsxr · Sep 26, 2016

You got me of guard, had to take a few quick pics. In the words of ven '' pics or it didn't happen ''

Stock 6d beside a 9d ( 8 26650 cells)

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17,000 lumens for a single light bulb. When 1 single led can do that I will be impressed.

outofthedarkness · Sep 26, 2016

mjgsxr said:
You got me of guard, had to take a few quick pics. In the words of ven '' pics or it didn't happen ''

Stock 6d beside a 9d ( 8 26650 cells)

[/URL][/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG]

17,000 lumens for a single light bulb. When 1 single led can do that I will be impressed.

Wow I like the head on this thing!

I might have to get me a Maglite and start some DIY Modding!!!

Cool Pics!!! Thanks

mjgsxr · Sep 26, 2016

check out adventure sport flashlight website. He's on cpf as well as vestureofblood. Check out the links below, don't thank me your wallet won't.

LOL

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?194-Adventure-Sport

http://asflashlights.com/

besafe2 · Sep 26, 2016

Second for calling your local police station.

arKmm · Sep 27, 2016

besafe2 said:
Second for calling your local police station.

1) You generally can't call the local police station, only the central control room
2) The central control room are all civilians and won't know about this aspect of law
3) If you go into a station, the counter staff are all civilians and same again
4) If you do manage to find an officer, they're so risk averse they'll probably tell you not to for fear of getting it wrong

UK Law Carrying Large Flashlight/Baton Type/ Maglite?

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