So who makes good LED bars

So the JW speaker products are well respected. Who all makes high quality bars? I saw the new hella stuff but it doesnt seem all that advanced...

I have a couple problems with most bars on the market
-Too wide of optics, Seriously what good is a 40* optic at highway speeds, lots of foreground, zero distance
-Too Blue, good god get off the blue fanboi train already
-Low CRI

I really want something with <5* optics for the center section, maybe a couple 10* optics on the ends, 3500k-4500k and CRI of 95+. Too much to ask? Anyone making such things?

Sadden said:

3500k-4500k and CRI of 95+. Too much to ask? Anyone making such things?

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Yes. No automotive led has a CRI of above 80ish. Most of them are 5000k+.

I don't think I've ever seen an LED with 95+ CRI. Most I've seen is about 90 and that was at 2700-3000k. A little to yellow red for me.

I wish there was some automotive lights that had the same temperature and CRI as short arc lol. 6000k with CRI greater than 96 haha! Even some of the higher wattage short arc metal Halide bulbs have a better CRI (85+) than automotive bulbs do. Maybe one day there can be a perfect compromise between style and usability.

Magio said:

I don't think I've ever seen an LED with 95+ CRI.

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They do exist, in significant variety. It's just that they aren't used in vehicle lamps, at least nobody has yet.

Most I've seen is about 90 and that was at 2700-3000k. A little to yellow red for me.

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There are some excellent ~95 CRI, 3000K LEDs that produce a very achromatic white light -- it can't be described as yellowish, reddish, or any other "ish". It's a little bit odd to experience it, because we are accustomed to being able to describe white light by its color cast.

I wish there was some automotive lights that had the same temperature and CRI as short arc lol. 6000k with CRI greater than 96

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Why do you wish for 6000K? I wish for vehicle LED lamps with behavior like the "Vivid Series 3000K" lamps shown on page 4 of this spec sheet (and I wish for data like that for vehicle LEDs...)

-Virgil- said:

They do exist, in significant variety. It's just that they aren't used in vehicle lamps, at least nobody has yet.



There are some excellent ~95 CRI, 3000K LEDs that produce a very achromatic white light -- it can't be described as yellowish, reddish, or any other "ish". It's a little bit odd to experience it, because we are accustomed to being able to describe white light by its color cast.



Why do you wish for 6000K? I wish for vehicle LED lamps with behavior like the "Vivid Series 3000K" lamps shown on page 4 of this spec sheet (and I wish for data like that for vehicle LEDs...)

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Hmm. I would love to see those LED in person. Since you are describing them as being an achromatic white at 3000k I can't imagine how that would look.

The reason I said 6000k was because with my limited experience with short arc, the color quality seemed to be much better than any LED of the same color temp I've seen. It might would be accurate to also say they were nearly achromatic as there doesn't seem to be any hue in any direction whether, blue, green, or red.

Magio said:

Hmm. I would love to see those LED in person.

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They are quite striking.

Since you are describing them as being an achromatic white at 3000k I can't imagine how that would look.

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That might be because you have in mind the crude, over-simplistic notion of color temperature pushed at consumers (basically "2700K is orange, 3000K is yellow, 4000K is neutral, 5000K is daylight"). Remember the first "C" in "CCT" stands for correlated, and it's CCT that applies to HID, LED, fluorescent etc light sources. There is a HUGE range of different appearances to light of any given CCT, depending on how that light is produced and the spectral output characteristics (SPD) of the light source.

The reason I said 6000k was because with my limited experience with short arc, the color quality seemed to be much better than any LED of the same color temp I've seen.

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This looks like a sort of mashup of CCT, SPD, and CRI.

It might would be accurate to also say they were nearly achromatic as there doesn't seem to be any hue in any direction whether, blue, green, or red.

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I have yet to see a 6000K LED or HID light source without a strong blue cast.

Magio said:

Hmm. I would love to see those LED in person. Since you are describing them as being an achromatic white at 3000k I can't imagine how that would look.

The reason I said 6000k was because with my limited experience with short arc, the color quality seemed to be much better than any LED of the same color temp I've seen. It might would be accurate to also say they were nearly achromatic as there doesn't seem to be any hue in any direction whether, blue, green, or red.

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The CIE diagram illustrates the concept. The colors are exaggerated, but anything along the curve will be perceived as reasonably white. Calling out CCT or the commonly used descriptions ("soft", "warm", "bright", "neutral", "daylight", etc) is easier than more specific definitions, but subject to variation. A 5000K light source can be dominated by green at one extreme or pink at the other if it strays from the ideal curve (where the color cast is still there but quite subtle). This is why LED manufacturers started binning their LEDs based on sets of 2D coordinates not long after LED's could produce enough useful light (at a reasonable price) to be used for general illumination. Cree's XML family binning documentation illustrates the concept to a quite granular degree.

A wrinkle that Virgil alluded to was SPD (Spectral Power Distribution), which can contribute to CRI issues. LED manufacturers can tune the combination of blue die wavelength and phosphor formulation/distribution to hit a specific set of CIE coordinates but still come up short on CRI since the spectrum might be missing in some key areas. As such, high CRI LED solutions (90+) are usually more expensive since they might be RGB, feature red LED's to deal with typical problems at the lower end of the scale, or require such tight combinations of blue die emission points / phosphor formulation / phosphor deposition that yields are low at the top end of the scale. And there is always the issue of different color rendering than the incandescents that generations of us have lived with.

-Virgil- said:

There is a HUGE range of different appearances to light of any given CCT, depending on how that light is produced and the spectral output characteristics (SPD) of the light source.

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I kinda figured that but since I have limited experience with LED's especially LEDs of the same color temp but different SPD's I've never witnessed the differences myself. Makes me even more curious to see the LEDs you mentioned LOL

-Virgil- said:

I have yet to see a 6000K LED or HID light source without a strong blue cast.

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I know you say that but is it possible to have a very high CRI (CRI>95) while also having a strong blue cast? It would seem to me that any light that would accurately render colors could not be biased strongly towards any one particular color...or is there something Im still missing?

The only LED light-bars I know of with a 5000K CCT are from Baja Designs. I have no first-hand experience with them and while they appear to be very well built, they provide little to no useful data regarding their optics/light performance. The few Isolux plots(?) they provide don't impress me, especially considering the price tag!

JW Speaker just released their TS1000 light bars, which appear to be the same light as the Hella 350 series. JW Speaker advertises the TS1000 series as having a 5500K CCT, while Hella advertises their 350 series as having a 6000K CCT. Again, I have no first-hand experience with either, however they appear to be well built with pretty good optics/performance for the size and price.

Now, I DO have a Grote 30" LED light bar on my Power Wagon. While I'm not sure where it is made(could very well be China), it is very well built. Even the included wiring harness is well-done, unlike those nasty Amazon/e-bay $50 specials that everyone is selling. While the CCT is ~6000K, the optics are really quite good in my (unqualified)opinion, with a good balance between both beam width and distance. The 30" light bar will provide ~90 lux up to 160 meters and ~5 lux at around 400 meters. It has more of a "driving" pattern than any other light bar I've seen. For the price, you get alot, in regards to both light output/pattern and overall build quality.

JW Speaker and Grote both provide Isolux plots(?) and plenty of other data on their product pages.

I'm not sure what purpose this light bar would serve, however if you are looking for an auxiliary driving light, I would highly recommend the JW Speaker TS4000's. They have a ~5000K CCT with a superb beam pattern that is in my (unqualified) opinion just about perfect for an auxiliary high-beam driving light. If you're after high CRI, halogen is still best(at least in the automotive world), if you can fit them the Hella 4000's or Cibie Super Oscars are definitely worth a look.

Good luck!

Mike

Magio said:

I know you say that but is it possible to have a very high CRI (CRI>95) while also having a strong blue cast? It would seem to me that any light that would accurately render colors could not be biased strongly towards any one particular color...or is there something Im still missing?

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I guess I can answer my own question here. Normal halogens have a yellow cast and yet their CRI is near 100.

NovA ProspekT said:

JW Speaker just released their TS1000 light bars, which appear to be the same light as the Hella 350 series.

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They look similar, but not the same to me -- the longer I compare them, the more differences I see. There are dimensional and optical differences, in addition to physical configuration differences. I suppose it's not impossible that one of the two companies is buying from the other (or they're both outsourcing their product) but neither company tends to do that; they both tend to make all their own stuff.

JW Speaker advertises the TS1000 series as having a 5500K CCT, while Hella advertises their 350 series as having a 6000K CCT

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Another difference.

I'm not sure what purpose this light bar would serve, however if you are looking for an auxiliary driving light, I would highly recommend the JW Speaker TS4000's. They have a ~5000K CCT with a superb beam pattern that is in my (unqualified) opinion just about perfect for an auxiliary high-beam driving light. If you're after high CRI, halogen is still best(at least in the automotive world), if you can fit them the Hella 4000's or Cibie Super Oscars are definitely worth a look.

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All of this is good advice.

-Virgil- said:

They look similar, but not the same to me -- the longer I compare them, the more differences I see. There are dimensional and optical differences, in addition to physical configuration differences. I suppose it's not impossible that one of the two companies is buying from the other (or they're both outsourcing their product) but neither company tends to do that; they both tend to make all their own stuff.



Another difference.



All of this is good advice.

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They look practically identical. Can you do any digging and see if this is a joint prospect?
They both offer the same beam oattern choices, theyre the same form factor, the same mounts, the optics appear the same. Differences might just come down to LED selection (hence different descriptions on cct), but I am interested to learn more before I soend any money.

I heard Ridgid Industries make good stuff. They are a growing company and recently teamed up with Toyota to make the LED fog lights on the Tacoma.

Sadden said:

So the JW speaker products are well respected. Who all makes high quality bars? I saw the new hella stuff but it doesnt seem all that advanced...

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This might interest you:
http://www.mtnlitebar.com