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Thread: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

  1. #1
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    Default Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)



    Official specifications:
    • Nominal Capacity: 3000mAh
    • Nominal voltage: 3.50V
    • Standard charge: 1500mA, 4.2V, 50mA
    • Max. charge voltage: 4.20V+/-0.05V
    • Max. charge current: 4000mA
    • Standard discharge: 600mA down to 2.5V
    • Fast discharge: 10000mA, 20000mA down to 2.5V
    • Max. continuous discharge: 20000mA
    • Cycle life: 300 at 10A, 200 at 20A both with 4A charge, ramaning capacity minimum 70%
    • Weight: 47.0g
    • Operating temperature: charge 0C ~ 50C, discharge: -20C ~ 75C
    • Storage temperature: 1 month: -20C ~60C, 3 month: -20C ~ 45C, 1 year: -20C ~ 20C




    A high current and high capacity cell, that is rated for high current use.










    The discharge curves tracks perfectly.





    At 20A the cell reaches 81C, but first after discharge has terminated.



    At 30A I terminated due to temperature, but the cell do reach 90C after termination.













    Ignore the A charge curve, there was a glitch on my equipment.



    Conclusion

    This is a very good high current cell and it is rated to be used at high charge/discharge rates.



    Notes and links

    How is the test done and how to read the charts
    How is a protected LiIon battery constructed
    More about button top and flat top batteries
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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    THANKS FOR THE REVIEW!!

    Now I can compare to VTC6/30Q ect!


    Same results as others!! The VTC6 and 30Q have less voltage sag.
    Last edited by Capolini; 11-20-2016 at 09:16 AM.
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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Thank you. I've been waiting for this one. One of my favourite cells. I honestly expected it to match or slightly beat the 30q. I was wrong. I knew there was a reason I liked Samsung cells
    Last edited by vicv; 11-20-2016 at 09:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Nice! I think now all the top rated batteries have been tested?

    I thought it would hit closer to it's rated capacity, but that's not too important when you need this type of cell.

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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardBattery View Post
    I thought it would hit closer to it's rated capacity, but that's not too important when you need this type of cell.
    I only discharge to 2.8V, not the rated 2.5V, i.e. I do not get the full capacity.
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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Looks good. Illumination Supply actually has these cells on sale for $5.00 each. So even if you don't need high current cells, they have enough capacity to make good general purpose budget batteries that can maintain a decently high voltage. They are MUCH better than the Panasonic NCR18650PF in this regard (compare to Orbtronic 18650PD, which is actually the PF, on the HKJ comparator).

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    Naughty Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Sorry guys, im new here so i dont understand very well this things about batterys and stuff.
    But i have onde doubt i want do replace my laptop batery, the laptop battery use 6 samsung ICR18650-26H 2600 mAh (Pink)
    My Doubt is can i replace that batterys for exemplo for 6 Samsung INR18650-30Q 3000mAh (Pink) ????
    If not can you guys tell me please what is the best battery can i replace.

    Thanks GUYS!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by UriDarn View Post
    Sorry guys, im new here so i dont understand very well this things about batterys and stuff.
    But i have onde doubt i want do replace my laptop batery, the laptop battery use 6 samsung ICR18650-26H 2600 mAh (Pink)
    My Doubt is can i replace that batterys for exemplo for 6 Samsung INR18650-30Q 3000mAh (Pink) ????
    If not can you guys tell me please what is the best battery can i replace.

    Thanks GUYS!
    Laptop battery packs are not just batteries, they also have a BMS (Battery management system). This BMS system keeps track of the batteries and will probably shut the pack down permanently if the batteries does strange things. I.e. you need to find information about the BMS in your battery pack and how it will handle a battery replacement.
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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by vicv View Post
    Thank you. I've been waiting for this one. One of my favourite cells. I honestly expected it to match or slightly beat the 30q. I was wrong. I knew there was a reason I liked Samsung cells

    yes 30q has slightly better voltage. but the real difference is the chemistry. hg2 is a tweaked NMC and datasheet shows very good cycle life, that is, if you cycle it continuously e.g. like two full cycles daily

    30q is an NCA chemistry so theoretically it has better CALENDAR LIFE. so if your application only cycles once or twice a week the 30Q is probably going to last a lot longer than HG2. tesla uses NCA on their cars

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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by Overclocker View Post
    yes 30q has slightly better voltage. but the real difference is the chemistry. hg2 is a tweaked NMC and datasheet shows very good cycle life, that is, if you cycle it continuously e.g. like two full cycles daily

    30q is an NCA chemistry so theoretically it has better CALENDAR LIFE. so if your application only cycles once or twice a week the 30Q is probably going to last a lot longer than HG2. tesla uses NCA on their cars
    And my second car, after my GTR R35 is a Tesla, so I will stick with the Samsung cells because I like the GTR better... LOL

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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by Capolini View Post
    Same results as others!! The VTC6 and 30Q have less voltage sag.
    I've actually heard rumors in various places that the HG2 is at least as good as the 30Q when it comes to sag (and maybe better). Rumor has it that the HG2 often performs worse (like it did here) because most of the cells made available in loose form are not from the best performing batches. Not sure how much truth there is in this, though.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    HG2, best for vapers due to its high drain capability, but still will come in short for flashlight use compared to the LG MJ1 and Sanyo GA both @ 3500mAh albeit, lower drain capability. (10A versus 20A on the LG Choco)

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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill1109 View Post
    HG2, best for vapers due to its high drain capability, but still will come in short for flashlight use compared to the LG MJ1 and Sanyo GA both @ 3500mAh albeit, lower drain capability. (10A versus 20A on the LG Choco)
    Then again, this difference between the current crop of high current cells and high capacity cells is quite small these days. In the case of the VTC6s, it's almost non-existant when comparing REAL capacity. But even with the HG2, the difference is only 500mAH. And for this rather small difference in capacity, you not only higher current draw but also better voltage and faster charging capability. All in all, I like the current crop of high current cells and actually prefer them to the high capacity cells (even though I'm NOT a vaper). They just work better. I can get them charged faster if I need to. And since even high capacity cells don't have enough capacity to run my light long enough without a battery change, I don't miss the extra mAH.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by StorminMatt View Post
    Then again, this difference between the current crop of high current cells and high capacity cells is quite small these days. In the case of the VTC6s, it's almost non-existant when comparing REAL capacity. But even with the HG2, the difference is only 500mAH. And for this rather small difference in capacity, you not only higher current draw but also better voltage and faster charging capability. All in all, I like the current crop of high current cells and actually prefer them to the high capacity cells (even though I'm NOT a vaper). They just work better. I can get them charged faster if I need to. And since even high capacity cells don't have enough capacity to run my light long enough without a battery change, I don't miss the extra mAH.
    I agree. I use 30Q/VTC6/LGHG2 in my single cell modded lights[Vinh] and in several of my bigger lights. I LOVE high output, so I change the batteries after 15 or 20 minutes max. Not only do they give MORE Amps, the mAh is irrelevant because I put a new battery in before that would be close to a factor.

    I tested my TK75vn KT w/ 3400 Panasonic cells and 30Q'S. The run time advantage for the Panny's was minimal.iirc 3 or 4 more minutes which does not come into play for my type of use!!That is in detail below!

    Since I use at least 2 lights a night for my hike w/ Capo, My primary lights[3 or 4 cell] will get used 35 minutes max and the secondary lights cover the other 30 minutes or so! The 30q's or HG2'S have plenty of juice to fulfill my Max Output Flashaholicism!
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

  15. #15

    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    I've been very happy with these for high-intensity lamp use. I get about 2925 mAh average when discharging them at 700mA and that's only down to 2.8v. They will run turbo for long periods on my TN36 and the grip stays relatively cool (can't say that for the head).

    You see a lot of the vape guys unhappy with the sag above 15A. The NMC chemistry is very tunable and the extra 500mAh capacity comes at an internal resistance cost. Still these are happy medium for lamps.

    Mike

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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    I've been using them for a while, for a high drain edc light (8a max) and a mechanical mod e cigarette (20a max). They have been OK in my opinion. But....

    I own 14 of em. The first two cells were from a local vape shop, and a few batches of 4 were purchased from ebay sellers (top rated sellers?!) The first two were genuine and kicked butt, the next two batches of 4 were definitely fakes (refunded$$) and the last batch of 4 I'm not so sure about. They are good fakes if they are fakes, but just sag more under 15a load than the first two did. Using a purely resistive load, I couldn't believe how much more powerful the first two hg2's were in my ecig, I had to step down to higher resistance coils in my atomizer! I've got no easy way to test ah's but all of the counterfeit batteries were pretty good for knock offs!

    I like hg2's because they work great for both, dual purpose for me. Any recommended sellers for hg2's? Have all your hg2 batteries been legit? Are the vtc6's any more reliable to order genuine?

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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by vrruumm View Post
    I've been using them for a while, for a high drain edc light (8a max) and a mechanical mod e cigarette (20a max). They have been OK in my opinion. But....

    I own 14 of em. The first two cells were from a local vape shop, and a few batches of 4 were purchased from ebay sellers (top rated sellers?!) The first two were genuine and kicked butt, the next two batches of 4 were definitely fakes (refunded$$) and the last batch of 4 I'm not so sure about. They are good fakes if they are fakes, but just sag more under 15a load than the first two did. Using a purely resistive load, I couldn't believe how much more powerful the first two hg2's were in my ecig, I had to step down to higher resistance coils in my atomizer! I've got no easy way to test ah's but all of the counterfeit batteries were pretty good for knock offs!

    I like hg2's because they work great for both, dual purpose for me. Any recommended sellers for hg2's? Have all your hg2 batteries been legit? Are the vtc6's any more reliable to order genuine?


    Great prices, customer service and ALL batteries tested for authenticity .................my Hometown dealer!

    https://liionwholesale.com/collectio...esale-discount
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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by Capolini View Post
    Great prices, customer service and ALL batteries tested for authenticity .................my Hometown dealer!
    https://liionwholesale.com/collectio...esale-discount
    It is impractical for any dealer to ensure that "ALL batteries tested for authenticity". You can find reports here and elsewhere where trusted dealers and rewrappers were fooled by fakes.

    To guard against fakes the best you can do is to avoid sketchy sources and do your own tests.

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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    @vrruumm

    Don't let gauss163 deter you from buying from Liionwholesale. They are a very reliable source and far from sketchy!
    Environment molds a person. Perseverance changes them. ,,,Capolini 10.21.2003

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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    ^^^ Please read more carefully - no one claimed that any particular dealer was sketchy.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    vrruumm, I've bought 12 HG2 from genuinecells on ebay (spread over 2 orders) and all have been genuine. They have tested out at a mean of 2912mAh with a sample standard deviation of 18 (population standard deviation of 17) @700ma down to 2.8v. The datasheet lists 3000mAh at 600ma down to 2.5v.

    You really should have some way of testing cells if you are worried about counterfiets--especially for sellers who offer refunds. For about $40, The Opus BT - C3100 V2.2 will allow you to do capacity and internal resistance testing plus is a darn good charger. It has extra-long bays for some of crazy long protected cells (I've seen button top protected Samsung cells that were 74mm long and would not fit any NiteCore charger). Due to internal resistance it won't measure high drain cells resistance accurately but you can compare cell to cell.

    Mike
    Last edited by Arizona_Mike; 04-17-2017 at 10:55 AM.

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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona_Mike View Post
    [...] Due to internal resistance it won't measure high drain cells resistance accurately but you can compare cell to cell.
    Why do you believe that? According to HKJ (below), it performed "very good", and I agree given the numbers below.


  23. #23

    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Why do I believe that?

    1 My own experience measuring standard vs high drain batteries vs high capacity. HG2s average 38 mOhm on the C3100 when in fact I know it is probably in the 20s. NCR18650s average about 108 when they should be in the 80s or so.
    2. Knowledge of electrical testing (from my own education and employment)--particularly you need 4 point probing for such low resistances (a high impedance path for the voltage measurement independent of the load path). see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-terminal_sensing
    3. The manual says so (bottom of page 3 to top of page 4). ~+30mOhm systematic measurement error due to built in resistance +/-20% variation test to test. Both are consistent with my experience.

    HKJ tested linearity by adding resistance but not intercept. I don't see him comparing to known datasheet values. Also he is showing up to 18% variation from slot to slot in his data. This is consistent with the manual as well as my observations.

    My methodology is to measure once for each slot, re-measure any "out to lunch" values--which is common--and than take the lowest of the 4 consistent values. Used correctly the C3100 is adequate to compare cell to cell but not accurate for comparing to datasheet values (which will be about 30mOhm lower). It has moderately precision (good enough for detecting fakes and tracking cell aging) but poor accuracy.

    Mike
    Last edited by Arizona_Mike; 04-17-2017 at 12:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona_Mike View Post
    HKJ tested linearity by adding resistance but not intercept. [...]
    But with good linearity the offset is easily inferred. Did your try that to see what you got, or was there too much noise from contact resistance etc?

    Note that the reason that the datasheet values are usually lower is because they use a completely different method, namely they measure AC impedance at 1kHz.
    Last edited by Gauss163; 04-17-2017 at 12:33 PM.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    You can't recreate the contact resistance by adding more resistance because both your contact resistance and cell resistance are unknowns. Everything I have measured is consistent with ~30mOhm contact resistance in agreement with the manual.

    Impedance (resistance^2 + reactance^2)^0.5 is always equal to or greater than resistance, it can never be lower.

    Ideally you could use the C3100 in discharge test mode at two (or more) different discharge currents while simultaneously measuring voltage with a high impedance VOM to get a much more accurate value. I have no reason to do so because I am only comparing authentic cells to potential counterfeits and cells to themselves as they age. In this case precision is more important than accuracy, which is why I consider the unit adequate to the task.

    Mike

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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona_Mike View Post
    Impedance (resistance^2 + reactance^2)^0.5 is always equal to or greater than resistance, it can never be lower.
    That is not correct for batteries. Impedance is usual measured at 1kHz and is lower than resistance that is usual measured below 10Hz
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  27. #27

    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    That is not correct for batteries. Impedance is usual measured at 1kHz and is lower than resistance that is usual measured below 10Hz
    Interesting. Must be an electrolyte diffusion limited (resistance increasing over time with constant load).

    Mike
    Last edited by Arizona_Mike; 04-17-2017 at 02:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona_Mike View Post
    You can't recreate the contact resistance by adding more resistance because both your contact resistance and cell resistance are unknowns. Everything I have measured is consistent with ~30mOhm contact resistance in agreement with the manual.
    The point is that you can infer R_b + R_c = battery IR + resistance from contact etc. If you can ensure that R_c is constant then we can comput it, then use it to compute R_b.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona_Mike View Post
    Ideally you could use the C3100 in discharge test mode at two (or more) different discharge currents while simultaneously measuring voltage with a high impedance VOM to get a much more accurate value [...]
    Yes, you can do better than the Opus using a 4-wire test, but you should be able to do fairly well even without such as above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona_Mike View Post
    Impedance (resistance^2 + reactance^2)^0.5 is always equal to or greater than resistance, it can never be lower.
    No, the AC 1kHZ impedance test used for (Li-ion) batteries typically yields (much) lower numbers that DC IR tests. So you cannot expect DC IR tests from the Opus to match the lower AC 1kHz tests in the datasheets. The two tests measure different things and have different purposes.

    That (standard) AC high-frequency (1 kHz) impedance test has limited use. For continuous DC discharge what matters is the low-frequency impedance. This can be much higher than the 1 kHz impedance, e.g. 108Ω vs. 40Ω. To understand why, look at a typical Nyquist plot of the impedance spectrum. Here is what the TI experts say (Barsukov and Qian, p.119)

    As can be seen from Figure 4.2, high-frequency impedance at 1 kHz (left side of the graph) is well matched for manufacturer (b) and not as well matched for manufacturer (a). However, low-frequency impedance (the one that will actually matter for continuous discharge) is equally badly matched for both. The reason for this is that most cell makers have access to simple 1-kHz impedance meters that allow them to grade the cell based on high-frequency impedance. High-frequency (1-kHz) measurement is very fast and allows for the detection of massive failures such as a short circuit or current collector disconnect. However, it is not very useful to observe the whole range of electrochemical properties of the battery related to actual charge storage. Low-frequency impedance would be more useful for preventing a voltage imbalance, but its measurement takes at least 10 seconds, so it is very rarely used in cell production (but could be used by a pack maker for improving the cell matching).
    And from pp. 12-13

    battery manufacturers often report battery impedance at 1 kHz. This value cannot be used as an estimate for internal resistance at DC conditions, because low frequency impedance (that corresponds to DC conditions) is much higher than that at 1 kHz. Although DC resistance is typically two to three times the 1 kHz resistance for charged Li-ion cells, the ratio is unpredictable for different states of charge, aged cells, or at low temperatures, so it is better to always measure DC resistance directly. Impedance of l kHz is useful for detecting catastrophically failed cells during production because of the fast measurement ability afforded and widely available instrumentation. If low-frequency impedance data are not available for detailed modeling, two of the best ways to estimate usable capacity is to perform a test in an actual device or to refer to manufacturer discharge curves at loads comparable to the expected application loads.
    See also this page, and HKJ's BLF thread on internal impedance/resistance
    Last edited by Gauss163; 04-17-2017 at 03:30 PM.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss163 View Post
    The point is that you can infer R_b + R_c = battery IR + resistance from contact etc. If you can ensure that R_c is constant then we can comput it, then use it to compute R_b.
    If you don't know contact resistance and don't know battery resistance you can only determine the total from the C3100. You will need some other method of determining one of them. Once known you can correct for it.
    Yes, you can do better than the Opus using a 4-wire test, but you should be able to do fairly well even without such as above.
    It depends on your definition of fairly well. Trying to measure cells in the 20-80mOhm range with a device with 30mOhm contact resistance is not what I would call accurate. In my initial reply to vrruum I stated that it is more accurate to measure a cell higher on that range than lower. I'm not sure why this is controversial.
    No, the AC 1kHZ impedance test used for (Li-ion) batteries typically yields (much) lower numbers that DC IR tests. So you cannot expect DC IR tests from the Opus to match the lower AC 1kHz tests in the datasheets. The two tests measure different things and have different purposes.
    That (standard) AC high-frequency (1 kHz) impedance test has limited use. For continuous DC discharge what matters is the low-frequency impedance. This can be much higher than the 1 kHz impedance, e.g. 108Ω vs. 40Ω. To understand why, look at a typical Nyquist plot of the impedance spectrum. Here is what the TI experts say (Barsukov and Qian, p.119)
    And from pp. 12-13
    See also this page, and HKJ's BLF thread on internal impedance/resistance
    Granted. I was wrong on that point, but is is a tangental question anyway. I never mentioned AC values, you did. I just said "datasheet values". LG publishes DC values on their datasheets: https://www.nkon.nl/sk/k/hg2.pdfhttp...l/sk/k/hg2.pdf As you can see from that link, the HG2 should be 24-26mOhm. The C3100 is giving me 38mOhm average. That's a 52% error. That is not what I would call accurate.

    Mike
    Last edited by Arizona_Mike; 04-17-2017 at 08:34 PM.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Test/review of LG 18650 HG2 3000mAh (Brown)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona_Mike View Post
    Granted. I was wrong on that point, but is is a tangental question anyway. I never mentioned AC values, you did. I just said "datasheet values". LG publishes DC values on their datasheets [...]
    Almost all datasheets use AC/1kHz.

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