Bring the g3 back to life?

Hello CPF! Wondering if you folks can point me in the right direction. Using 17500 cells in a "peak logan" for edc.

What im really looking for is a decent weapon light for a rifle. I have a quick connect mount holding my old SF g3 plastic light.
It works, it now has an aluminum SF clicky tail cap, and the incan bulb back in after the cheapo led (~10 bucks on amazon) lost its brightness.

My current plan is to buy a malkof drop in and a solarforce aluminum head. However it seems best to ask you guys if I should just buy a streamlight or something else for my desired use?

Have Malkoff m61 drop ins kept up with current technology?

Is there a better more efficient drop in available now?

Maybe a 18650 powered light?

I'd like to keep the cost down below $100, and the reliability up (recoil).

What do you guys recommend?

Thank you!
Marty

==================Flashlight Recommendation Checklist================

1) How would you prefer to purchase the light?

____I would like to purchase the light in person from a brick and mortar store. I am located in ______________.
__X_This will be mail-order or Online (location doesn't matter).


2) Budget: An easy question, but you may change your mind after answering the rest!

____I don't know yet
____Up to $25.
____Up to $50.
__X_Up to $100.
____Up to $200.
____Up to $300.
____Essentially unlimited.


3) Format:

____I am not sure, please help me decide.
__X_I want a flashlight (hand held/self contained).
____I want a self-contained headlamp.
____I want a headlamp with an external pack/power source.
____I want a mounted light (typically for a bicycle or vehicle)
____I want a lantern/area light.
____I want a portable spotlight (it may have an external power source).
____Other ____________________________________________


4) Size:

____MICRO - Keychain size.
____TINY - Every day carry (2-4 inches).
__X_SMALL - Every day carry (4-7 inches).
__X_MEDIUM - Holster/belt ring carry. (>7 inches)
____LARGE - Big enough to need its own travel case.
____I don't know/I don't care.


5) Emitter/Light source:

__X_LED (known for efficiency, longevity, and compactness)
____Incandescent (known for superior color rendition)
____HID (known for max output, but often at the expense of size)
____I don't know.


6) Manufacturer:

__X_I want to buy a light from a large/traditional manufacturer that is ready to go out of the box.
__X_I would like a light from a specialty manufacturer (Possibly limited run/Custom).
__X_I am interested in assembling my own components. (for example a "host" or flashlight body from one manufacturer, and a "drop-in" emitter from another source).


7) What power source do you want to use?

____I intend to use "Primary"/Disposable Alkaline batteries based on the usual AAA/AA/C/D sized cells common to most stores.
____I intend to use "Primary"/Disposable Lithium batteries based on the usual AAA/AA/C/D and CR123 sized cells common to most stores (often a cold weather or long storage choice).
____I intend to use Rechargeable cells (NiMH or NiCD) based on the usual AAA/AA/C/D sized cells common to most stores.
__X_I intend to use Rechargeable cells based on less common formats (18500 or 18650 Li-Ion, RCR123, et-al).
____I want a light with an integrated rechargeable battery pack.
____I don't know/I need more information on power sources.

7a) If you have selected a rechargeable option
____I want a light that plugs directly into the wall (literally with prongs built into the light)
____I want a light that has a recharging adapter (your typical "wall wart")
____I want a light that snaps into a cradle (usually mounted on a wall)
__X_I want a separate/stand-alone charger (this involves removing the batteries to charge)
__X_I don't care


8) How much genuine out the front (OTF) light do you want/need? Sometimes you can have too much light (trying to read up close up with a 100 lumen light is not a happy experience).

____I want to navigate a dark room or read a map (1-10 lumens).
____I want an indoor "blackout" light (15-50 lumens)
____I want to confidently walk around an unlit/unpaved rural area (60-150 lumens).
__X_I want to illuminate my entire backyard or a campsite (150-300 lumens).
__X_I want to illuminate an entire field, the neighbor's front yard several houses down, impress my friends and neighbors, etc. (300-700 lumens).
__X_I want search and rescue type illumination (800+ lumens).

__X_SPECIAL NOTE: Burst/Turbo mode Category - There are several lights that will run at a super bright maximum for a very limited period (usually 5-10 minutes) and then will "step-down" to a lower level for thermal control. Check here if this is acceptable.


9) Flood vs Throw: Flood covers an area, Throw reaches out to a distance.

____All Flood: I am doing "arms length" tasks like reading and campsite cooking.
____Wide Flood: I want a defined flood area for semi-close tasks like after-dark campsite tasks or working on a car.
__x__Narrow Flood: I want a sharply defined flood area that will project some distance for tasks like trail walking.
XXX_Wide Throw: I want a beam with a noticeable hot-center for distance throw and a significant amount of "side-spill". Good for rough trail hiking, search and rescue, and general distance work.
__X__Narrow Throw: I want a beam with a very tight "hot center" and minimal "side-spill". Good for distance viewing, fog, and looking through dense undergrowth.
____Turbohead: I want a far-distance projector with a sharply focused spot of light and minimal or zero side-spill. Good for extreme distance and impressing your friends.

9a) Distance: How far away will you typically need to see with this light (check all that apply)
____Less than 1 yard/meter (reading, other close work)
____Less than 5 yards/meters (looking for something inside a dark shed/garage/basement)
____5-20 yards/meters (check out a noise in the backyard)
__X_30-50 yards/meters (I have a big backyard)
__X_50-150 yards/meters (I live in a very rural area/farm with wide open spaces)
__X_150+ yards (I am searching from a helicopter)

10) Runtime: Not over-inflated manufacturer runtime claims, but usable brightness measured from first activation to 50% with new batteries (Measured on maximum continuous output).

____Up to 30 minutes (I want the brightest [and potentially smallest] light for brief periods)
__X_30-60 minutes (I have plenty of batteries just ready to be changed)
__X_90-120 minutes (Runtime is moderately important, but still not critical)
__x_3 hours + (I critically need this light to run on max for extended periods in between battery changes/charges).




11) Durability/Usage: Generally the old phrase "you get what you pay for" is very accurate for flashlights.

____Not Important (A "night-stand" light).
____Slightly Important (Walks around the neighborhood).
__X_Very Important (Camping, Backpacking, Car Glove-box).
__X_Critical (Police, Fire, Search & Rescue, Caving, Survival).
____I don't know.


12) Switch Size, Type, and location (choose all that apply):

____Any size switch will do.
____I need a BIG switch (I'll be using gloves or have very large hands or coordination issues).
__X_I want a forward clicky (Helpful for momentary activation and signaling).
____I want a reverse clicky (For use with multi-mode/level lights).
____I want a momentary switch (Predominantly for use with signaling and short bursts of momentary light only).
____I want a twisty switch (Tighten the head/tailcap to activate, and the light will stay on until the head/tailcap is loosened).
____I want a body mounted switch (near the head, like on a Maglite).
__X_I want a tail mounted switch (found on the majority of today's high end lights).
____I want a remote switch (usually found on high-end bicycle headlights)
____I don't care.
____I don't know.
____Other, please specify____________________.


13) User Interface (UI) and mode selection. Select all that apply.

__X__A simple on-off with only one output level is fine for me.
__X__I want 2 light levels. (Brighter/short runtime and Dimmer/long runtime.)
____I want multiple light levels. (Some lights have 5-16 light levels.)
____I want a programmable light.
____I want a selector ring.
____I want a strobe mode. (Oscillating pattern to confuse/blind aka "Police Mode")
____I want SOS mode. (blinks in ---...--- emergency pattern)
____I want a beacon mode. (Regular flashes at full power to show location.)
____I don't care.
____I don't know.


14)Material/Finish/Coating

__X_Plastic/composite body (this may limit your choices significantly).
__X_Anodized Aluminum – either type II or III (Hard Anodized) (Aluminum, specifically HA, is the most common material/finish for today's higher end flashlights).
____Stainless steel (durable, but much heavier than aluminum)
____Titanium (durable and nearly as lightweight as aluminum, but can be moderately to significantly more expensive).
__X_I don't care.
____I don't know.
____Other, please specify____________.

15) Water resistance
____None needed
____IPX4 (Splash resistant)
__X_IPX7 (Waterproof to 1 meter/30min)
__X_IPX8 (Submersible to greater than 1 meter for 4 hours)

16) Storage conditions
____In house (temperature/climate controlled environment)
____Emergency kit (long standby periods)
__X_Automobile glove-box (wide temperature swings, long standby periods, critical reliability)
__X_Other__ON A RIFLE________________________________ ____


17) Special Needs/extras: Is there anything else you want or need that hasn't been mentioned? Select any/all below.

____Red filter (for preserving night vision).
____Other filter colors (Amber, Green, Blue, _________).
____Dedicated R/G/B secondary LEDs.
____"Hybrid" light (bright incandescent combined with long running LEDs)
____Pocket/belt clip
____Holster
____Wrist/Neck Lanyard
____Crenulated bezel
____Non-sparking, Intrinsically Safe (IS) for use in explosive environments

I like the old Nitrolon lights, you should keep it.
You can't really do better than a Malkoff drop in for reliability, durability and beam. The M61 only (?) puts ot about 325 Lm, so be aware that there are much more powerful lights out there that will cost the same as the drop in, but they're unlikely to last as long as the setup you have. If you get tired of the G3 you can always buy another host for the M61.
As you'll be using 2 x 17500 cells you could fit an M91B drop in, which will give you 700 continuous Lumens.
P

Thanks for the reply Peter!

I hadn't been considering the m91 drop ins.

A couple more questions, is the solarforce head a good pair with the malkoff units? I read about copper rings being used, and making sure the reflector was against the lens.

Any idea what runtime would be with my 2 1100 mAh cells? I see the M91SHO uses a little less juice at 650 mA, and the B at 1000 mA @ 9v.

:thumbsup:

A couple more questions, is the solarforce head a good pair with the malkoff units? I read about copper rings being used, and making sure the reflector was against the lens.
I'm sure they are OK, I've seen people use copper tape to wrap around the drop in to get a good tight fit. Most people do this with various drop ins.

Any idea what runtime would be with my 2 1100 mAh cells? I see the M91SHO uses a little less juice at 650 mA, and the B at 1000 mA @ 9v.
From my calculations you should get about 80 mins on M61SHO (don't think there is an M91SHO) and about 50 mins on the M91B.
P

You might just consider scrapping the surefire and getting a Malkoff light. 18650 batteries give by far the best runtime for their size. The Malkoff light would be more durable and it fits 18650s.

you would need more than three of those 17500s to equal one 18650.

Thanks for your input gents! Still tossing both ideas around. Much appreciated!

I have one G3 with a Nailbender LV drop-in that I run on 2aa cells and it works well on a rifle too.
The drop-in is a 3 speed Neutral and was a cheaper than the Malkoff but for sure not as nice too.
I already had all the stuff laying around but the point is that you can also get that G3 going again for under $50 easily too if you want to.

I like the G series lights still too especially in Winter here where I can actually hold them outside without gloves on!

Typing on my phone so plz excuse my brevity.

Am assuming you have the nitrolon head, which would have contributed to early heat-death of your cheapie LED dropin.

The aluminum Solarforce head is a poor choice as it provides excessive interior length resulting in connectivity issues w/ Malkoff & similar dropins. This can be partially corrected with foil etc but is still a poor solution if in a heat-restricted application such as the G-series.

My recommendation is to use a Surefire Z44 head/bezel assembly instead. Most folks don't know this, but if internal measurements are taken, it will be shown that the aluminum shelf inside the Z44 is more substantial than the one in the Solarforce head. What you want is an optimum setup to handle the max heat of the M61.

With regards to thermal handling, the Malkoff M61 is rated for a nitrolon host & aluminum bezel. (The M61L - nitrolon host & nitrolon bezel.)

Any of the M91's are not rated for any nitrolon combo - don't do this. The M61 is the best module for your application IMO - but needs the SF Z44 as its heat output is at the very max for a nitrolon light.

Also, knowing some details, there are mutually exclusive requirements listed - that are really quite critical - and it is unfortunate that they haven't been pointed out yet. Am tired of typing on my phone tho; can write more later.

Thank you for the very direct response! You addressed many of the questions I had concerns with!

I suppose my other question is how much a basic 18650 weapon light can be had for. I'm not in the service, I just like taking firearms training and defense seriously. So an Afghanistan proof light is not required.

Looking into the z44 head now.

Considering the quality and durability of the M61, it's still the top choice for drop-ins that absolutely have to work. While you could purchase a new light able to be weapon mounted, you won't find one with the same durability as your G3 with an M61 and Z44 for the same ~$55.

Malkoff MD2s and 6Ps with M61s have been living on my weapons for years, and I don't expect that to change any time soon. These are pretty much the least expensive options for lights able to be completely trusted.

I just performed a quick search and numerous Z44s are listed for around $15, so the bezel choice shouldn't be a choice at all.

Thanks grizzman. Sounds like a very reasonable way to do it.

Not seeing z44 heads offered for 15, can you share where you saw them? I'm seeing about $40 on average.

I found them on eBay.

It is not uncommon for individuals to have used the old Surefire Rapid Replacement Parts service to acquire free components, then turn around and sell them on eBay. This is likely a contributing factor to the elimination of the service.

Oh gotcha thanks. Are counterfeit or less effective aftermarket copies a concern?

There have certainly been fake Surefire components on the market. If you don't fully trust a seller, you can ask them a questions about the item, and the answer (or lack of same) should assist in making the determination of legitimacy. Another solid option is to buy it from the CPF MarketPlace.

I've purchased a few NIB 6Ps within the last year and change for $50 or a bit more. I sure wouldn't pay that for one component.

While looking for this thread on my phone, I found that FiveMega currently has bored bodies available for $45, if 18650 support is required. I personally use Surefire CR123s in mounted 6Ps for multiple reasons.

I bought a z44 of eBay from a guy who was parting out a couple 6ps. Looks like a legit seller. After shipping it was $18.50.

Excellent.

There is a bit of a lottery with M61s. I've received one that was overly blue (an SHO), one that is a very nice, pure white (an SHO that prompted the purchase of the 2nd one), and later an M61 that's b tier than the nice SHO.

If you prefer neutral outputs, the M61N is a great option. The output is slightly reduced, but not visibly so.

M61 219s with the high CRI Nichia emitter is very good, but output and throw are quite visibly reduced. This is fine for handheld use, but not, IMHO, for rifle mounting.

I think the M61L/NL/WL would work in an all plastic light however not sure if running at 9 volts aka G3 would increase the heat beyond what Gene envisioned. I prefer the M61NL but gotta say in actual field use the M61LL is hard to distinguish. Also bet that would work in your G3 without any issues. Heck ran a M60LL in pre lockout G2. Sometimes things can be made too complex. I think just buy the M61LL and problem solved. The light won't be the brightest but between the low mass of the G3 and potted vampire battery sucking electronics of the Malkoff you will have dependable long running light. Or you could buy a cheap-o drop-in and if it fries over time so what. If the use isn't critical and it's multi mode then bet that would work. Just run it on the lower modes mostly and use the higher as if it was a turbo type thing. cheap and problem solved but dang that M61LL isn't really that expensive and would make for crazy reliable working light. Also not really sure how long a cheap drop-in which is over heating might actually last so maybe cheap isn't really cheap.

Grizzman leaningtowards neutral, I'm not in love with cold temp beams.. 300 should be enough light I believe.

WW- since I've got a metal head on the way, I'm not to concerned about heat of the m61. I will keep a close eye on it though. I really hadn't thought about runtime, 80m isn't a very long time.. on my 2 1100mah rechargeables. 3x cr123 would overdrive the m61?