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Thread: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

  1. #1
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    Default So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    I've never dealt with Elzetta before, I thought about ordering this but it's out of stock...

    http://www.oveready.com/elzetta-flas.../prod_374.html

    So...is this an item that I can simply order, or is this one of those products where it is a pipe dream to ever get one, and all you ever see is 'OUT OF STOCK'??
    XeRay1982

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Quote Originally Posted by BeastFlashlight View Post
    I've never dealt with Elzetta before, I thought about ordering this but it's out of stock...

    http://www.oveready.com/elzetta-flas.../prod_374.html

    So...is this an item that I can simply order, or is this one of those products where it is a pipe dream to ever get one, and all you ever see is 'OUT OF STOCK'??
    With a bored battery tube you risk to lose 2-mode tail cap functionality. There is a switch rod inside those caps that rides the internal edge of the tube. You either lose switching modes at once or a bit later when the tiny rod will be damaged from lateral forces.

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Thanks definitely good to know. I have no clue why Elzetta themselves do not make an option for rechargeable batteries, I totally baffles me!!
    XeRay1982

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Quote Originally Posted by BeastFlashlight View Post
    I've never dealt with Elzetta before, I thought about ordering this but it's out of stock...

    http://www.oveready.com/elzetta-flas.../prod_374.html

    So...is this an item that I can simply order, or is this one of those products where it is a pipe dream to ever get one, and all you ever see is 'OUT OF STOCK'??

    +1

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    Flashaholic Johnnyh's Avatar
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    Default So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    The Elzetta Bones accepts 18650's. While the high/low tail cap from them fits/operates ok (I have both) I hesitate to use it on the bones, seems a bit too tight...something just not right about it...not sure but I don't want to screw it up! Probably due to what vadimax said. The Bones is equipped with a regular momentary forward press clicky. Single mode 650 lumens. Beam (to my eyes) is identical to an AVS Bravo. Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Johnnyh; 01-25-2017 at 03:56 AM.
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnyh View Post
    The Elzetta Bones accepts 18650's. While the high/low tail cap from them fits/operates ok (I have both) I hesitate to use it on the bones, seems a bit too tight...something just not right about it...not sure but I don't want to screw it up! Probably due to what vadimax said. The Bones is equipped with a regular momentary forward press clicky. Single mode 650 lumens. Beam (to my eyes) is identical to an AVS Bravo. Hope this helps.
    Do you like cheese ?

    Hope this helps too.

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    Flashaholic Johnnyh's Avatar
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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Quote Originally Posted by coffeecup66 View Post
    Do you like cheese ?

    Hope this helps too.
    Hmmm...Not sure what this means (?) but...Just sayin' if a person can't get a bored Bravo from Oveready and wants an Elzetta that'll take 18650's, the Bones is an option.
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnyh View Post
    The Elzetta Bones accepts 18650's. While the high/low tail cap from them fits/operates ok (I have both) I hesitate to use it on the bones, seems a bit too tight...something just not right about it...not sure but I don't want to screw it up! Probably due to what vadimax said. The Bones is equipped with a regular momentary forward press clicky. Single mode 650 lumens. Beam (to my eyes) is identical to an AVS Bravo. Hope this helps.
    The part that I don't understand is that this IS Elzetta that we are talking about, they are the ones that design the flashlights FROM SCRATCH, why are they boring anything?? I understand that Oveready will bore out an Elzetta so that it can except a 18650, because they are not Elzetta they are modding an Elzetta. But Elzetta is the manufacturer, why not just make a 18650 host flashlight that's a little fatter?? Wouldn't this be equivalent to Subaru making an Outback...and then shaving it down until it's a Crosstrek lol? Um, just make a Crosstrek, and just make an Outback lol. Likewise, just make a 18650 flashlight!!
    XeRay1982

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Quote Originally Posted by BeastFlashlight View Post
    The part that I don't understand is that this IS Elzetta that we are talking about, they are the ones that design the flashlights FROM SCRATCH, why are they boring anything?? I understand that Oveready will bore out an Elzetta so that it can except a 18650, because they are not Elzetta they are modding an Elzetta. But Elzetta is the manufacturer, why not just make a 18650 host flashlight that's a little fatter?? Wouldn't this be equivalent to Subaru making an Outback...and then shaving it down until it's a Crosstrek lol? Um, just make a Crosstrek, and just make an Outback lol. Likewise, just make a 18650 flashlight!!
    I would buy that fatter one if they did! I find the high/low tailcap really handy but it's use on a bored Bravo (or Bones) is not ideal due to the thinner cap-to-body interface. Would love to see it beefed up enough to make that better. All in all, I think Elzettas are geared toward LEO's, Military, Home Defenders as serious weapon lights so (not really sure of this) but making it over a 1" diameter would probably negate a lot of weapon mounts, etc. Just a guess. But hey, they came out with the 18650-capable Bones when it seemed they never would so who knows? By the way, I used to wonder why Ford could'nt just make a shrunken F150 when I was tooling around in my crummy little Ranger! LOL!
    Last edited by Johnnyh; 01-26-2017 at 06:41 PM. Reason: Grammar

  10. #10

    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    I bored my AVS Bravo with a hi/low cap to use 18650/two 18350s a while ago. I did bore it from the head to tail end and left a lip at the cap end to not potentially compromise the cap function. 🏻

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    Default So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    I use my Oveready bored Bravo on low all the time. It's almost like Oveready bored the Bones intentionally to not work with a high/low tail cap.
    Last edited by Grizzman; 01-26-2017 at 07:32 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Quote Originally Posted by coffeecup66 View Post
    Do you like cheese ?

    Hope this helps too.


    No one has even come close to addressing OP's question. CC66 made a joke. Pretty funny one at that.

    ~ Chance
    Never point a flashlight at anything you don't intend to illuminate! Never buy a flashlight you have to make payments on.

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Okay, Chance...if you're going to point it out that we've been ignoring Beasts's actual question, then I'll answer it.

    Oveready does not accept pre-orders for product that they don't possess.


    This out of stock situation is different from the other products that Oveready sells that are rarely in stock.

    Oveready used to host what they called "Bore Batches" in which they gathered our light bodies, shipped them as a group to a machine shop, which bored them for 18mm cells, retrieved them from the machine shop, and shipped them back to us. In addition to shipping our bodies to the machine shop, they purchased their own Surefire and Elzetta bodies and added them to the batch. Info in the below posts suggests that either Oveready had some bored bodies left over from the previous Bore Batch, or is having Elzetta bodies bored outside of the public batches.

    >....Directly from ElectronGuru in the Surefire Modification Service:.... thread, "Signups are down from last year which were down from the year before which were...

    You get the picture. I expect to have one more batch before 2020, if that.

    Sorry, there just aren't enough unbored bodies left in the world!."


    If you're really patient, then you may be able to buy one from Oveready that's already been bored. If you'd like to speed up the process, buy about 100 Surefire 6Ps, and register them for Bore Batch Q. Alternatively, you can promote Oveready's Bore Batch option to get others to participate. Bore Batch Q unofficially opened in March of 2016, and has three unofficial entries.

    A search for PrecisionWorks may result in another option for you. A quicker, and likely less expensive option can be found below.
    Last edited by Grizzman; 01-28-2017 at 01:25 AM.

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzman View Post
    I use my Oveready bored Bravo on low all the time. It's almost like Oveready bored the Bones intentionally to not work with a high/low tail cap.
    Grizzman, Guess I erroneously assumed (yes, I know what happens when we ass-u-me things!) that any bored Bravo would suffer the same thinning of the tailcap end that I see on the Bones. So the Oveready bored Bravo is better in this regard? Just wondering because if they are, Oveready has 19 bodies (no led) in stock and I will get one!
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Johnnyh's post made me look at Oveready's non-AVS Bravo sales page....and the bored bodies are available for purchase.....right now. There is absolutely no body or tailcap difference between an AVS Bravo and a non-AVS Bravo.

    Choose a bezel option, select the lens kit, and select a tailcap. Once you have the body and tailcap ordered, go to Elzetta.com to order an AVS head by itself if you're interested in that option.

    After you have the complete light with AVS head, you can begin your research into the best Malkoff drop-in to use with the low profile bezel when the AVS is simply too large.

    I had my first Elzetta body bored four years ago. I use it very often, and on low almost as much as on high. Also, it seems a day doesn't pass in which I don't drop a light onto hard wood flooring (sometimes multiple times). I have no idea how many times the old ZFL-M60 has bounced off of it, with no signs of it every occurring. At that point in history, Oveready used a machine shop that cut a bit of a bevel to the outside edge of the tail, instead of having the stock threads go all the way to the end of the tail. I had a Bravo bored as part of last year's Bore Batch, and the machine shop used for this batch left the rearmost threads alone. This should make it even better for high/low operation than my well used specimen, that works absolutely.
    Last edited by Grizzman; 01-27-2017 at 09:48 PM.

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    There ya go Beast! BTW, the Malkoff M61N is really nice in my low profile Bravo. It's not bored so I use a Keepower 16650 2500mah, works good but the runtime increase in the 18650 would be better! If I can confirm that my $55.00 tailcap won't get skewered by the body, I'm all over it myself!
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Oveready isn't going to continue to offer a product or service that isn't absolutely oustanding. They're friendly people and should happily answer any questions you may have.

    They're trying to get ready for a product release on the weekend of the 5th, so this is likely a busy time for them.
    Last edited by Grizzman; 01-27-2017 at 09:51 PM.

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    That settles it. Thanks Grizzman! You're experience means a lot.
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    EDIT...my post was a mess I cleaned it up...

    Ok I'm glad that the issue with the light being prone to damage with lots of High Low operation turned out to be a misunderstanding!! That had me losing interest. Ok so with that cleared up I got the itch for the light agian. Ok, so I just bought the host at Oveready...Crenellated bezel, High Low switch, and M61/M91 lens kit. So let me see if I understand, so I now go buy the AVS Head at Elzetta, then I buy all kinds of drop ins and get to have a bunch of different beam patterns and brightnesses? I never had a drop in light before.
    Last edited by BeastFlashlight; 01-28-2017 at 07:27 AM.
    XeRay1982

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    Default So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Great choice Beast!

    Let me see if I can clear it up.

    The AVS head and the standard bezel head you are getting are separate and distinct units.

    The AVS head is a complete head which includes the LED with your choice of optic lens (throw or flood) and your choice of bezel (smooth or crenelated). You just screw it on and it's good to go. It does NOT accept drop-ins. The optic lens and bezel are the only parts that are able to be swapped out. That unit costs about $110, depending on bezel choice. Go to Elzetta.com and play around with the "configurator" feature, you'll see what I mean.

    But here's the fun part! The bezel and lens kit you're about to get is where you're going to put a drop-in. I think many would agree that the Malkoff Devices - https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/ - are among the best but there are many others. (Illumn.com has various drop ins by Malkoff also.) This is where you can choose various outputs, tints, etc. You can call/email Malkoff Devices and believe this....they are top notch people and your questions will be answered! Very friendly and helpful. Tell them what you have in hand and what kind of tint, output, runtime you might prefer and you will be steered in the right direction. About $50 and very simple to install. The original Elzetta head (such as the one you have on order) is designed and built to perfectly accept Malkoff drop-ins with no modification. The lens kit you're getting is necessary since the drop-In itself does not have a built-in lens.

    As Grizzman has said, the AVS head is a very powerful, great beam but it's kinda big (~1.5" at the bezel) for pocket carry. (If thats your thing). The great thing is, like I said, you just buy it and screw it on and go.

    (I have an AVS but I stuck it on a 3 cell Charlie and keep it as the "home defense-invader-blinder-light-everything-up" light next to my bed.)

    For what it's worth, the Bravo with the standard (like yours) or low profile bezel with a Malkoff M61N drop is a very great combo for carrying around for everyday use. My own opinion of course!

    Good luck and have fun! Let us know which way you go on this!

    I was also very encouraged by Grizzman's Oveready testimonial and a Bored Bravo body is on it's way!
    Last edited by Johnnyh; 01-28-2017 at 10:31 AM.
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    I agree that my initial post regarding the bezels wasn't completely clear. The Bravo's modularity is a feature shared with only a small number of modern light series. If you were only interested in the AVS head, then you could buy just the body and tailcap from Oveready, and the head from somewhere else, and be done.


    As you stated, the crenellated bezel gives you access to a large range of drop-ins, making the light very flexible. It also makes the light a size that most people (except the truly skinny jeans crowd) can EDC.

    An M61N gives an outstanding multi-purpose beam that's good for most typical use scenarios.
    I can use it with an M60 for maximum throw that'll comfortably fit into the front pocket of any jeans I wear.
    If I prefer maximum flood, but not 650 lumens of it, I can use an M60F instead.
    For longer run times at useful 50, 80, 120, 175 (among others) lumen outputs, I can use an M61L or LL or LLL drop-in in cool tint, neutral tint, or even Nichia 219.

    In the future, if Malkoff Devices releases a new M-Series drop-in with a characteristic that interests you, it'll also work in the Bravo. If you buy it, likely for under $50, don't really like it, it can be easily sold here, and that money can go towards another one, easily purchased from here. I've personally bought, sold, and traded almost 10 different Malkoff drop-ins at CPF since joining.

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Thanks a lot for the great explanations guys! For convenience I want to just get the AVS head from Elzetta along with the other lens so I have both the flood & throw. However I'll still have the set up for drop ins if I want to do that later. Does the AVS head yield more power/lumens than any of the drop in options? I was thinking maybe that's the case since you say it's larger than the drop in set up.
    XeRay1982

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Oh and out of curiosity, would you guys actually drive nails with the lens of the Bravo like in the one video (just to show it off), or would that make you cringe? I think there was another video where a guy chopped a coconut apart with the crenellated bezel.
    XeRay1982

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    The AVS on the Bravo delivers 650 lumens from two CR123s. Output is reduced to approximately 500 lumens from a single Li-Ion, and I run one of my Bravo AVS setups exclusively from 18650s. The only Malkoff drop-ins that exceed 650 lumens are in the M91 series. According to flashlightguide.com's review, the M91B runs for about 30 minutes from two AW 18350s. When these same two 18350s are used with the AVS head, the increased voltage puts it into Charlie mode, in which it delivers 900 lumens, also for about 30 minutes. I don't own one, but the M91B's beam profile is completely different than what's delivered by the optic of the AVS. Flashlightguide's High Output overview includes side by side beamshots between the AVS heads and the M91A, which is similar to the M91B. The B has a slightly more focused spot, with roughly identical spill.

    The larger head of the AVS head delivers much greater lux on target at distance than any Malkoff with a reflector. The large optic focuses the photons quite well. The increased lumen count of the AVS over the optic based M60, in addition to the larger optic allows the AVS to flat out embarrass the M60 in a throw contest.

    The low cost of the standard bezel is a prime reason to include it with the body. If it were near the price of an AVS, then I would have simply stated to get the body and tailcap from Oveready and the AVS from Elzetta.

    I bought a used Bravo with crenellated drop-in head from CPF, and the previous owner had beat on it a fair bit. I'd have no reservations with screwing the damaged head and tailcap onto a body and beating on it some more, including driving nails if it were necessary (but not simply for fun).
    Last edited by Grizzman; 01-29-2017 at 03:01 PM.

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Ok thank you, I will definitely go with the AVS head then and probably just stick with that set up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzman View Post
    The AVS on the Bravo delivers 650 lumens from two CR123s. Output is reduced to approximately 500 lumens from a single Li-Ion, and I run one of my Bravo AVS setups exclusively from 18650s. The only Malkoff drop-ins that exceed 650 lumens are in the M91 series. According to flashlightguide.com's review, the M91B runs for about 30 minutes from two AW 18350s. When these same two 18350s are used with the AVS head, the increased voltage puts it into Charlie mode, in which it delivers 900 lumens, also for about 30 minutes.
    Are 18350s non-rechargeable like 123s, or are they rechargeable like 18650? Ugh I thought 18350s were like 18650s but considering you choose to run your AVS Bravo with a 18650 and a power loss I'm thinking 18350s are a bigger version of 123s...meaning a non-rechargeable EXPENSIVE throw away battery! 123s are great for occasional use lights but I would use this everyday.

    EDIT...lol trying to find the answer I confused myself even more, I didn't even know 123s can be rechargeable! So now I'm also wondering why people would choose 18650 over 2 123s.
    Last edited by BeastFlashlight; 01-29-2017 at 04:21 PM.
    XeRay1982

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Beat on nails with with a new Bravo? No....hell no. That is definitely cringe-worthy! The Elzetta is one tough light and yes, guys do all kinds of torture tests (300 ft. Helicopter drops, run-over-with-truck, throw in creeks, freeze in ice blocks, take apart under water, etc. and I thank them for it but if I need to show anybody how tough my light is, I'll show em the videos!
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnyh View Post
    Beat on nails with with a new Bravo? No....hell no. That is definitely cringe-worthy!
    You're right I'd cringe too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnyh View Post
    300 ft. Helicopter drops
    No way

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnyh View Post
    run-over-with-truck
    I wonder if the boring job by Oveready compromises the strength much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnyh View Post
    throw in creeks
    This I wouldn't mind

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnyh View Post
    freeze in ice blocks
    Not bad I'd do that

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnyh View Post
    take apart under water
    Nah
    XeRay1982

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    Default So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Beast, rechargeable 123's will work but won't last very long as compared to one 18650. They have a very short run time and do not give much warning when they are low. They just go out. The 18650 will produce power for much longer until it begins to fade away gradually. You will know it needs to be recharged before you loose all light. Stay with 18650 and maybe have some regular disposable cr123's as backup. Here's a good 18650....

    http://www.illumn.com/18650-keeppowe...FQtWDQod1tMK5g

    Here's the charger I use.

    http://www.illumn.com/nitecore-d2-digicharger.html

    The charger can be used for a wide variety of batteries.

    A something that may help you later...the number on li-ion rechargeables refer to their physical size...an 18650 is 18 mm in diameter and 65 mm long...a 16650 is 16 mm in diameter and 65 mm long...you get the picture. There's a lot more to the battery world than this of course. But those above are a solid start.
    Last edited by Johnnyh; 01-29-2017 at 05:33 PM.
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    Also beast, I would be very hard pressed to differentiate between 500 lumens and 650 lumens in the real world. You're not loosing a lot on the 18650.
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

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    Default Re: So can you place a pre-paid order for Elzetta AVS Bravo?

    ......and now the battery discussion begins.

    In the 18mm diameter size, cells are available in ~35, ~50, and ~65 mm lengths.

    CR123s aren't rechargeable, but in the same size, we have what are called RCR123 or 16340 cells, which are re-chargeable. These can be either protected or unprotected Li-Co (typical rechargeable Li-Ion) or unprotected IMR (a somewhat safer chemistry). RCR123s and 16340s have a capacity of only about 500-700 mAh.

    18350s are roughly the same length as CR123s, but are 18mm in diameter instead of 16mm. They are available in protected Li-CO, likely unprotected Li-Co, and IMR. Capacity for this size typically runs in the 700 to 900 mAh range.

    18500s aren't directly compatible with the Bravo, but here's some info anyway. They are available in protected Li-CO, likely unprotected Li-Co, and IMR (AW's are called 18490). Capacity for this size typically runs in the 1200 to 1500 mAh range.

    18650s are roughly the same length as two 18350s. They are available in protected Li-CO, unprotected Li-Co, IMR, and new hybrid IMR chemistry. Capacity of protected and unprotected (also called naked) Li-Co 18650s goes up to 3400 or 3500 mAh. Capacity of traditional IMR 18650s tops out in the 2200 mAh region. Capacity of AW's hybrid 18650 is 3000 mAh.

    Running two protected 18350 Li-Ions in series with an AVS or Malkoff M61 drop-in causes the engine to see ~8.4 volts (not including sag and resistance). The output starts out at nearly 900 lumens and operates for a while until cell voltage is reduced enough to cause the head to think that it's being run from two CR123s, at which point it decreases its output to 650 lumens, and continues to operate. As the light is used, each cell is depleted down towards the 2.5 to 2.8 volt lower limit of the cell's protection circuit. Since the head is seeing over 5 volts, it puts out basically full output until....BAM....the protection circuit of one of the cells is tripped, causing the light to go out with no warning. If two naked or IMR cells are used in series, there's no protection circuit to keep the cells from being discharged below 2.5 volts, which is a bad situation.

    Using a single 18650 of any chemistry with an AVS head or M61 causes completely different operational behavior. As the cell's voltage drops below ~3.4 volts (Elzetta doesn't advertise the transition voltage), the head/drop-in changes from running in a regulated state to a direct drive state. As the voltage continues to decrease, so does the output. There is lots of warning that the cells are running low, and replacing/charging them is needed. As long as the user is paying attention, there's very little risk of cell damage, even with naked cells, since the output has obviously decreased long before the cell has reached 2.5 volts.

    Running the AVS from a single Li-Ion gives me several benefits:
    - twice the regulated run time (due to the decreased lumen output)
    - long direct drive mode after regulated output ends
    - less heat, since I'm running it at about 500 lumens instead of a bit less than 900

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