A century-old battery that is still holding a charge

mcraft556 · Feb 2, 2017

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post here, but I've been a lurker for a while; thank you guys for all the awesome information on here.

I just wanted to share this awesome battery I found recently online. I was looking for antique batteries that would show well with some antique flashlights that I just bought and came across this unique battery. It is a Columbia Dry Cell No. 4 that is looks great for its age. I can't seem to find any information on this battery, which seems similar to a no. 6 Columbia dry cell. I believe this battery is from the 1890's or very early 1900's, as I have looked at every no. 6 battery image I could find from 1904 until the merger of National Carbon, and they all display a different eagle logo than the one on my battery. Plus, it has a patent date of April 13th, 1893. But the awesome thing about this battery is that it still somehow holds a charge! I tested it with my multimeter and it seems to hold steady at about 1.02 volts! If I let it "recuperate" like it says on the label, I can get the meter to spike at 1.05 volts before it falls back back to 1.02 volts. I just find it amazing that a battery this old can hold a charge for so long, all while not leaking. I have linked images of it below so I don't crowd up this post, the only issue with it that I can see is a tiny bit of corrosion on both screw terminals.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9MtDIRM4_dGNnBHZVZPTktNMUk

Joe

etc · Feb 2, 2017

Cool. I wonder what light would most closely work for EDC with this cell.

SilverFox · Feb 3, 2017

Hello Joe,

Welcome to CPF.

Interesting find.

Keep in mind that showing a voltage doesn't mean that it can power a flashlight. You need to apply a load and see if there is any capacity left in it. If there is any capacity left, that would be very impressive.

Tom

Lynx_Arc · Feb 3, 2017

A agree with SilverFox, showing a voltage does is not a sign of holding a charge at all, the phrase "holding a charge" is used for rechargeable batteries not primaries. Primary batteries are either usable or not and I seriously doubt that battery can do more than power a dim LED in a battery vampire circuit. I've had batteries measure 1.5v on a meter but wouldn't even power a tv remote to change a channel under a load they dropped to near zero volts.

ChrisGarrett · Feb 3, 2017

I salvaged eight Sony 2200mAh 18650s from a 2004 VAIO pack my brother gave me and surprisingly they have about 75% capacity (1500mAh) at a 1A load. Date code is 2002!

Not a hundred years, but useable for sure.

Chris

HKJ · Feb 3, 2017

Impressive that the battery still have a voltage.
I doubt it can deliver any current, the voltage is too low (I believe that even then the batteries where 1.5V when new).

It is a very nice museum piece and I hope it will end up that way (It would be very sad if it goes into the trash*). If you want to use it with your antique flash lights it is fine, but it looks very good and may last longer than you and it would be very sad to throw it out.

*I do not use old stuff myself (usually), but I find it very fascinating to look at old stuff and get the story behind it.

Need a Light? · Feb 3, 2017

ChrisGarrett said:
I salvaged eight Sony 2200mAh 18650s from a 2004 VAIO pack my brother gave me and surprisingly they have about 75% capacity (1500mAh) at a 1A load. Date code is 2002!

Not a hundred years, but useable for sure.

Chris

I only started getting 18650 lights after tearing apart a pack from a 2002ish vaio, (aftermarket battery). I don't use those cells anymore as they were all 0v when I found em but some still charge and work fine.

I now use a bunch of ~7-10yo Sony and LG laptop pulls. Maybe it's a fluke, but they seem mostly fine (heck, it's probably really dangerous, but I supervise charging and am ready for things to go awry in general).

I also use some sub-c nicd I pulled from an old drill pack (early 90s), all long dead, but after using and recharging a whole bunch, a few went from 15-20mah to 7-800 (original 1200) so I keep those around. (Run a maglite ml25lt well enough)

ChrisGarrett · Feb 3, 2017

Need a Light? said:
I only started getting 18650 lights after tearing apart a pack from a 2002ish vaio, (aftermarket battery). I don't use those cells anymore as they were all 0v when I found em but some still charge and work fine.

I now use a bunch of ~7-10yo Sony and LG laptop pulls. Maybe it's a fluke, but they seem mostly fine (heck, it's probably really dangerous, but I supervise charging and am ready for things to go awry in general).

I wasn't trying to dump on the 100 year old battery, but if you have the right equipment, you might be able to salvage some of these common pack cells/batteries, safely.

I would never bang on my Sonys, or LG S2 cells (Dell pack, 2000s, only 4 of 8,) but at a 1A drain and a 500mA charge rate, I have a lot of low/medium mode light available, so they don't go into the recycle bin.

Chris

iamlucky13 · Feb 3, 2017

Very cool to see a battery from before they evolved to standardized cylinders.

Is it zinc-carbon, or something else?

Need a Light? said:
I also use some sub-c nicd I pulled from an old drill pack (early 90s), all long dead, but after using and recharging a whole bunch, a few went from 15-20mah to 7-800 (original 1200) so I keep those around. (Run a maglite ml25lt well enough)

Interesting. I've got a couple almost dead Ryobi NiCadtool batteries I haven't yet taken back to Home Depot's recycling drop box. I tend to use my power tools sporadically, so they could sit for long periods of time without being cycled, especially during the 18 months I was living in an apartment.

I wonder if a few cycles on the standard charger stands any chance of restoring a significant amount of capacity, or if I'd need to open the packs and cycle them individually to stand any chance. The latter might be more hassle than it's worth because I don't have a fancy charger with a recondition cycle, and from what I've seen the packs aren't easy to disassemble without damage.

Need a Light? · Feb 3, 2017

Heck, I run a thorfire S50 (that's 2 serial 18650) with 2 of the unprotected LG's. (7yo I think) 2600mah, which they still have 85+% of, and they're usually within .01v when I charge them.

Old batteries are my friend!

mcraft556 · Feb 4, 2017

Wow, thanks for all of the replies everyone, I appreciate them. I'm defiantly not going to be the one to throw this battery out; I love antiques and figuring out how they were used back in the day. I'll defiantly check it though to see if it has any capacity left. All of my remotes and lights need 3 volts so I'll have to try some low voltage LEDs I'm waiting on for another project.

iamlucky13 said:
Very cool to see a battery from before they evolved to standardized cylinders.

Is it zinc-carbon, or something else?

I just did a little more research and it is in fact a zinc-carbon and would have been 1.5 volts when new like HKJ mentioned. Another interesting fact I turned up is that the separator between the poles of the battery was made from a coiled piece of cardboard which was then coated with flour and potato starch in an effort to use less carbon then earlier batteries.

It's also interesting hearing about everyone's old batteries. I don't have any 18650's, but my oldest battery that I know can supply a current is a AA with a date code of 2009. I find it amazing hearing that you guys' batteries still have so much capacity after all these years.

I should get the LEDs in a few days and I'll let you guys know if the old battery can supply enough current to power it. Even if it won't be able to power them, the battery still looks really cool on my shelf.

Joe

etc · Feb 4, 2017

ChrisGarrett said:
I salvaged eight Sony 2200mAh 18650s from a 2004 VAIO pack my brother gave me and surprisingly they have about 75% capacity (1500mAh) at a 1A load. Date code is 2002!

Not a hundred years, but useable for sure.

Chris

Same here, I went through a few dozen laptop batteries, usually in a single battery just one or two cells die and the rest are good.

StandardBattery · Feb 6, 2017

mcraft556 said:
Wow, thanks for all of the replies everyone, I appreciate them. I'm defiantly not going to be the one to throw this battery out; I love antiques and figuring out how they were used back in the day. I'll defiantly check it though to see if it has any capacity left. All of my remotes and lights need 3 volts so I'll have to try some low voltage LEDs I'm waiting on for another project.
Very nice! I'm glad it found a good home.

I just did a little more research and it is in fact a zinc-carbon and would have been 1.5 volts when new like HKJ mentioned. Another interesting fact I turned up is that the separator between the poles of the battery was made from a coiled piece of cardboard which was then coated with flour and potato starch in an effort to use less carbon then earlier batteries.

It's also interesting hearing about everyone's old batteries. I don't have any 18650's, but my oldest battery that I know can supply a current is a AA with a date code of 2009. I find it amazing hearing that you guys' batteries still have so much capacity after all these years.

I should get the LEDs in a few days and I'll let you guys know if the old battery can supply enough current to power it. Even if it won't be able to power them, the battery still looks really cool on my shelf.

Joe

mcraft556 · Feb 16, 2017

Hello Everyone,

I apologize for the delay in getting back to you guys, the low-voltage LEDs came a lot later than I thought they would. I just tried hooking one up to the battery, with my multimeter in parallel to the LED, and it appears that the battery actually no longer has any capacity left in it. As soon as I connected the LED, the voltage dropped quickly to 0.05 volts, then slowly started dropping towards 0 volts, with the LED staying dark the whole time. Though, it may have a tiny but unusable bit of capacity left, since after I disconnected the LED, the voltage climbed back up to 1.05 volts. So, it can't power anything anymore, but it still looks good on my shelf.

Joe

Lynx_Arc · Feb 16, 2017

mcraft556 said:
Hello Everyone,

I apologize for the delay in getting back to you guys, the low-voltage LEDs came a lot later than I thought they would. I just tried hooking one up to the battery, with my multimeter in parallel to the LED, and it appears that the battery actually no longer has any capacity left in it. As soon as I connected the LED, the voltage dropped quickly to 0.05 volts, then slowly started dropping towards 0 volts, with the LED staying dark the whole time. Though, it may have a tiny but unusable bit of capacity left, since after I disconnected the LED, the voltage climbed back up to 1.05 volts. So, it can't power anything anymore, but it still looks good on my shelf.

Joe

Without a boost circuit you aren't going to get an LED to light up from a source of 1v, perhaps at 1.5v you can see a very dim glow on the emitter looking directly at it.

Nickle · Feb 16, 2017

Interesting Battery. I'm glad you shared it with us.

What is the actual dimensions of the battery?

I have worked in the Alarm and Tel-Communications Industry since 1966.
No. 6 Dry cells were very common in residential and commercial burglar and fire alarm systems.
Still to this day some Fire Alarms still utilize the No.6 cells. No. 6 dry cells were very common in
"Local Battery "Telephone systems. Before the N0. 6 Dry cells Phone used Wet cells. These
were glass jars filled with an acid solution.

When I worked in the Banking Industry there were certain Vault Alarms that used as many as
16 or 18 No. 6 cells. All wired in various serious and parallel configuration all within the same
battery container. This was to provide several different voltages to different parts of the control.

There were several different manufactures of these cells in the earlier days of my career.
Then all the major makers abandoned production. The only maker that still makes an equalilent
battery is Brite Star. At least to my knowledge a few year ago. The later cells were not carbon base
but were some other technology. The newer cells weighed about 1/3 that as the older cells.
They supposedly had the same specs for voltage and AH ratings. This was required to comply with
UL grade A Alarm requirements.
.

mcraft556 · Feb 18, 2017

Lynx_Arc said:
Without a boost circuit you aren't going to get an LED to light up from a source of 1v, perhaps at 1.5v you can see a very dim glow on the emitter looking directly at it.

Thanks for the tip, that could be why I'm not getting any light out of it. I don't have a boost circuit currently, so I'll have to look around and repeat the experiment if I can find one.

Nickle said:
Interesting Battery. I'm glad you shared it with us.

What is the actual dimensions of the battery?

I have worked in the Alarm and Tel-Communications Industry since 1966.
No. 6 Dry cells were very common in residential and commercial burglar and fire alarm systems.
Still to this day some Fire Alarms still utilize the No.6 cells. No. 6 dry cells were very common in
"Local Battery "Telephone systems. Before the N0. 6 Dry cells Phone used Wet cells. These
were glass jars filled with an acid solution.

When I worked in the Banking Industry there were certain Vault Alarms that used as many as
16 or 18 No. 6 cells. All wired in various serious and parallel configuration all within the same
battery container. This was to provide several different voltages to different parts of the control.

There were several different manufactures of these cells in the earlier days of my career.
Then all the major makers abandoned production. The only maker that still makes an equalilent
battery is Brite Star. At least to my knowledge a few year ago. The later cells were not carbon base
but were some other technology. The newer cells weighed about 1/3 that as the older cells.
They supposedly had the same specs for voltage and AH ratings. This was required to comply with
UL grade A Alarm requirements.
.

Thanks for all the really cool info about the no. 6 battery, I was wondering what this type of battery would have been used for. It's also amazing to think that this type of battery is still in service today, I thought it would have been phased out as newer battery designs were introduced. To answer your question, this battery measures 4.5" tall, 2" wide, and 1 and 7/8" deep.

Joe

Nubo · Feb 18, 2017

Nickle said:
... Before the N0. 6 Dry cells Phone used Wet cells. These
were glass jars filled with an acid solution..."
.

You might be referencing "crows foot" cells. I know these were often used for electric doorbells; one type of intermittent application that was supplanted by dry cells.

http://w1tp.com/iperkco2.htm

Lynx_Arc · Feb 18, 2017

mcraft556 said:
Thanks for the tip, that could be why I'm not getting any light out of it. I don't have a boost circuit currently, so I'll have to look around and repeat the experiment if I can find one.

Thanks for all the really cool info about the no. 6 battery, I was wondering what this type of battery would have been used for. It's also amazing to think that this type of battery is still in service today, I thought it would have been phased out as newer battery designs were introduced. To answer your question, this battery measures 4.5" tall, 2" wide, and 1 and 7/8" deep.

Joe

The one thing about using a boost circuit to power an LED is that it pulls a lot more current from the battery than the LED itself is powered at as it converts current to voltage. If you had 3 of these batteries at 1v they may be able to power an LED successfully but a boost circuit could draw over 3 times the current and heavier current draw typically sinks the voltage of depleted batteries more easily. In short it is likely a boost circuit may not work because the battery is unable to sustain the current draw at its depleted state.

broadgage · Feb 22, 2017

Here in the UK, and presumably elsewhere, large dry cells were used to power limited lighting in homes without electricity.
It would have been totally uneconomic to use batteries as the MAIN source of light.
Gas or oil lamps would have been the main illumination, however limited lighting from dry cells was very convenient if a light was needed only briefly. 4 large dry cells and a lamp of 5.5 volts and 0.3 amps was common.
Such a lamp used briefly in say the bedroom was far safer than a candle and much easier to turn on than feeling for matches in the dark.

Such large dry cells sold in the UK were commonly called "flag cells" because one brand had a depiction of the union flag on it. Production ceased only recently.

A century-old battery that is still holding a charge

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